2016 Front End Upgrade and Rear Suspension Modifications

[Frostbite]

I am starting to think seriously about adding the Cat 2016 Front end kit to my 2015 Proclimb. The front end parts swaps look fairly straight forward but, it's the changes to the rear skid that Cat did that have me wondering how to move forward.

In the video in bedded in the link below, the Cat engineers talk about the changes they did to the rear skid to compliment the changes to the front end. However, Cat doesn't offer a kit to change the rear skid geometry. The engineers talk about changes to the rear skid about 2/3 of the way through the video.

http://countrycat.com/ccstore/index...arrow-a-arm-kit-white-orange-2013-2015-m.html

So, the question arises, will the the 2016 front end kit work just fine with earlier rear suspension setups? Or will we need to develop a Geo type mod for earlier rear skids to make them work well with the 2016 front ends?

 

[summ8rmk]

Last year i asked if anyone was going to make a kit for the 14-15 rail. No one responded.
If i didn't already have new Ice age rails, i would get the 16 rails or find out if Ice age is going to make the taller rails.
Then get the 16 arm and shock.

 

[Frostbite]

Thanks Summ8rmk.

Chances are, I will just drive my sled the way it is. It's just surprising to me that Cat would sell these really cool front end update kits with no consideration whatsoever of how to adjust or modify previous model rear suspensions to optimize the benefits of their new front end design.

Just thinking out loud here, the changes to the rear skid in a nut shell look like a slightly shallower approach angle due to a change in rail profile, the front shock mounted higher on the rail and and at a more laid down angle to increase travel and keep more consistent tension on the track.

The rail curvature could be somewhat duplicated by slightly tightening the limiter straps. Unless the lower mount for the front shock is moved aft and up on the rail, I don't know how you would get the more laid down shock angle. Then I doubt the shock would have the travel required to work at the increased angle. It sounds like they went from 4 1/2" to 6+" of travel up front on the 16s.

I'm thinking a couple of brackets mounted to the lower rail (something like the Holz brackets we had on the old M7s) that moves the mounting location of the front arm aft and up might be in order?

Until the snow flies, I doubt an after market company would build such a thing but, an enterprising company could build a rear suspension update kit that does it's best to duplicate the 2016 rear skid geometry to compliment the many Cat front end kits being installed on earlier Proclimb models.

There's an opportunity here just like there's opportunity to improve the Proclimb intakes and to build more narrow running boards. The question is, will anyone accept the challenge?

 

[CO 2.0]

Id just run the 16 front end on your 15 skid and see how you like it. 16 skid is not there yet stock. At least the shocks arent. I liked the 15 setup better in stock form without touching anything. All guys with 16s should be getting their shocks revalved. Cat did a horrible job in this dept. Way too much rebound. 20psi in the front shock and 120psi in the rear shock with no rebound and no evol air and the skid still springs back to full ride height. Then since you have little air in it, it will bottom out easy.

I have mine at Toms Snowmobile right now getting revalved. Cat was told their valving wasnt up to par when they released the 16 demos and was said what they should have in their valving. Cat didnt listen.

 

[Frostbite]

Thanks CO 2.0, yes i will probably run the 2015 rear skid stock at least the first few rides to see how it interacts with the new front end.

However, I do see tremendous room for optimization of the interaction between the front and rear suspensions. Perhaps like with our intake setups and running boards, we'll probably just have to figure out what works best on our own?

 

[arctic2009]

Frostbite how much time have you spent on a proclimb? And what years?

 

[WyoBoy1000]

I'd have to look again but to put the 16 skid under it I'm pretty sure all you need is rails and a front shock. That's it, but I'm not 100%
The approach angle is actually steeper. Way better and put the track on the ground sooner and more track on the ground. About 2-3 inches more track. Which should be more like running a 156.
On the 15 I would move the skid to the 13 mount holes (the ones that are not drilled ask the way through) makes it act more like a geo mod M series. Also puts a little more track down.

I'm going to see if I can move the 16 forward but not sure if it will. I did drop it 1/2 in the front though. Just need more time. And the 16 shock need worked over.

 

[arctic2009]

I'd have to look again but to put the 16 skid under it I'm pretty sure all you need is rails and a front shock. That's it, but I'm not 100%
The approach angle is actually steeper. Way better and put the track on the ground sooner and more track on the ground. About 2-3 inches more track. Which should be more like running a 156.
On the 15 I would move the skid to the 13 mount holes (the ones that are not drilled ask the way through) makes it act more like a geo mod M series. Also puts a little more track down.

I'm going to see if I can move the 16 forward but not sure if it will. I did drop it 1/2 in the front though. Just need more time. And the 16 shock need worked over.

Need rails, front shock, rear upper idler arm, and shock link from the rear arm to front arm.

 

[Frostbite]

WyoBoy1000, when you say to do this

"On the 15 I would move the skid to the 13 mount holes (the ones that are not drilled ask the way through) makes it act more like a geo mod M series. Also puts a little more track down".

What hole position should the rear skid be in to work best with the front in the 2013 holes?

 

[boondocker97]

This maybe helpful http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=395107&highlight=2016+skid

 

[kiliki]

Frostbite how much time have you spent on a proclimb? And what years?

2000 miles on a 2015 and it has never left the shop!!

just funnin Ya frosty.

 

[arctic2009]

2000 miles on a 2015 and it has never left the shop!!

just funnin Ya frosty.

Sure seems like it! Pretty hard to know what works and what doesn't without spending any time on the new chassis. What works for others doesn't necessarily work for everyone. My 2 cents.

 

[kiliki]

i would run the 15 shocks with the 16 front end and if the boards did not fit my liking then would work out from there. coming of a M will be a whole learning curve for the first few rides.
we are not all "semi pro like wy" so each will have a different fit. not that i do not value his input as each of us have different needs and or dislikes.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

When changing skid mounts it both mounts have to change. So move both forward.

 

[Frostbite]

Got it, thanks!

 

[Motorbreath_]

Isn't the 16 M skid exactly the same as the 15 Viper skid?

 

[Frostbite]

It's been a while since this topic came up to the top but, I know a lot of you have also updated your front ends to the new 2016 front end. I just installed mine as well. I was wondering if there might be any newly released info from Cat engineering on recommended rear skid setups for 12-15 M8000s retrofit with 2016 front ends?

If nothing comes out of Cat or one of their major aftermarket supporters. I have drilled out the 2013 holes from inside the tunnel so I can go back and forth from the stock 2015 rear skid setup to the 2013 rear skid position based on Wyoboy1000's recommendation in a post above.

Does anyone have any more info on this topic?

 

[richardderkevorkian]

It's been a while since this topic came up to the top but, I know a lot of you have also updated your front ends to the new 2016 front end. I just installed mine as well. I was wondering if there might be any newly released info from Cat engineering on recommended rear skid setups for 12-15 M8000s retrofit with 2016 front ends?

If nothing comes out of Cat or one of their major aftermarket supporters. I have drilled out the 2013 holes from inside the tunnel so I can go back and forth from the stock 2015 rear skid setup to the 2013 rear skid position based on Wyoboy1000's recommendation in a post above.

Does anyone have any more info on this topic?

with the stock front end on my 13, the 14 suspension mounting points work much better than the 13. i wouldn't recommend using that hole. i ordered the Z-bros 38" a arms with the 16 spinals and will be continuing to use the 14 mount points with ice age rails

 

[Frostbite]

I just took a picture of the driver's right side of my sled and I would have to assume the upper unused hole in the picture must be the 2014 position?

The hole that is freshly drilled is the right 2013 hole and the hole with the bolt in it is the right stock 2015 hole (at least on my sled).

I wish BDX, Alternative Impact or one of the other fine aftermarket companies would build a rear skid update kit to fairly inexpensively adapt our rear skids to work best with the new front end. However, I completely understand that having snow and being able to test the product before selling it would be a must and unfortunately that hasn't been the case.

 

[summ8rmk]

upper hole is 2012 bolt is 2014, looks to be the same as 2015

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