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Land Use Issues that affect riding areas.
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  #1  
Old 08-04-2016, 08:49 PM
LaharDar LaharDar is offline
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Default Coming to your favorite riding area soon...CLOSED.

I surely hope not, but plans are in the works, seemingly directed at sled use in particular.
The result in the Nooksack valley.
Both (only real) riding areas have either access roads closed or decommissioned.
Here is the person responsible.
Erin Uloth, at the Mt. Baker Ranger District, by phone at (360) 854-2601, or by email to euloth@fs.fed.us.

The whole enchilada if you can keep from puking. http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/11558...T3_3817679.pdf
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2016, 12:15 PM
snowracer21 snowracer21 is offline
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Originally Posted by LaharDar View Post
I surely hope not, but plans are in the works, seemingly directed at sled use in particular.
The result in the Nooksack valley.
Both (only real) riding areas have either access roads closed or decommissioned.
Here is the person responsible.
Erin Uloth, at the Mt. Baker Ranger District, by phone at (360) 854-2601, or by email to euloth@fs.fed.us.

The whole enchilada if you can keep from puking. http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/11558...T3_3817679.pdf
If canyon cr is decomissioned, will the groomer still be able to operate on it once there is adequate snow?
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Old 08-11-2016, 10:36 PM
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There is potential that the Grouse access road will be decommissioned near the end and Bearpaw road will be closed from the bottom (the Y) if these plans progress.
In either case, grooming will not be allowed (taken from a message from Erin herself).
This plan doesn't make since, since these sections of roads need relatively little maintenance compared to the usual storm damaged roads. And MANY people are willing to maintain these sections of roads.
The plan is definitely aimed at reducing motorized use, NOT saving the forest service money, as she claims.
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Old 09-16-2016, 10:49 AM
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The solution has always been to disobey the rules. Force them to patrol the area, see if they have the money for that. If there isn't money for maintenance, there certainly isn't money for law enforcement. My contention is that if you ride it anyway, they will have to reconsider the closures and make a different plan.


They capitulate with the greenies and make these closures because it is the easy way out for them. Turning the tables by being an even bigger thorn in their side will definitely have them reconsidering the closures.


They count on you to follow the rules they make even if they are completely unconstitutional. Doing so is what gives them power, take the power back....
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  #5  
Old 09-17-2016, 04:03 PM
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Default Keeping the road open

If we work as a group to keep the road open, and therefore have riding access, they have a more difficult time making it wilderness
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:39 PM
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I get totally disgusted because every time I ATVs in the summer, I encounter new forest service closure markers blocking entrance to trails that had been ridden for years.

I don't sled as much as I like and am fairly new to this sport so I haven't seen the impact of sled land use issues yet.

I'm afraid that this is an avalanche that won't slow down regardless which party owns the White House. There are too many judges siding with enviroweenies.


I strongly believe there is strength in numbers. Please try to be more welcoming of newbies and try to get as many people you know involved in sledding. Until our community is more inclusive and welcoming of newcomers, we'll never gain the numbers we need to be a unified opposing force to land closures. We need more and fresh blood in this sport/hobby or whatever you call it. Increased numbers also helps sustain the sled industry which should ultimately benefit all sledders.

Some things I think are needed:
--> Don't be afraid to share secret sled spots or areas. We need more sledders and keeping these honey holes secret does not promote this. Think of the greater good.

--> Go out of your way to welcome a new and inexperienced rider. It is not easy to learn how to sled, especially off trail in the powder. Many experienced riders don't want to take the time to cultivate the growth of this hobby/sport because it is a sacrifice in time, energy, and being "slowed" down or limited in how aggressive you can ride if a newbie tags along.

--> Invite someone who has never ridden to ride your backup (wife') sled. Perhaps you will ignite a passion in someone who has never ridden before.

--> We need to unify around our common interests instead of finding differences among us. Powder sledders, please get off your high horses and be less condescending of trail riders. Quit making fun of parking lot posers. An expensive sled and expensive gear doesn't make you a "poser" to make fun of because the sledder's riding skill didn't meet your perceived expectations. Some newbies obviously have the financial means to buy nice new sled and matching gear but obviously don't have good riding skills. How about you be less judgemental and instead, invite and mentor them so they can remain in this activity and add to our numbers.

I'm done venting and I am very appreciative of two particular snowest members who have invited me repeatedly the last several seasons despite the fact that I suck as a rider and always will due to personal limitations-mental and physical- and my very limited ability to get time off work to ride as much a I wish and need in order to become a better rider.

Have a great day and I hope that land closures don't ruin your riding activities this season.

Last edited by Drewd; 09-18-2016 at 05:05 PM.
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  #7  
Old 09-21-2016, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewd View Post

I strongly believe there is strength in numbers. Please try to be more welcoming of newbies and try to get as many people you know involved in sledding. Until our community is more inclusive and welcoming of newcomers, we'll never gain the numbers we need to be a unified opposing force to land closures. We need more and fresh blood in this sport/hobby or whatever you call it. Increased numbers also helps sustain the sled industry which should ultimately benefit all sledders.

That is a nice dream to have but there are not nearly enough sledders to outnumber or overpower the current green movement.


I think sledders in general are VERY welcoming. This is an EXPENSIVE sport, that is the larger hurdle. Most new/young people simple can not afford a sled and a truck to haul it with. It isn't the current sledders holding new ones back. I am not sure what gave you that idea...


Quote:
Some things I think are needed:
--> Don't be afraid to share secret sled spots or areas. We need more sledders and keeping these honey holes secret does not promote this. Think of the greater good.

Sorry but I do not give up all of my hard fought finds to everybody that rides up the trail. It helps you but increases the chances that my riding gets compromised. Get out and find your own special spots, share them when you feel like it.

Quote:
--> Go out of your way to welcome a new and inexperienced rider. It is not easy to learn how to sled, especially off trail in the powder. Many experienced riders don't want to take the time to cultivate the growth of this hobby/sport because it is a sacrifice in time, energy, and being "slowed" down or limited in how aggressive you can ride if a newbie tags along.

I have never experienced this as a problem. We take new people out all of the time. We have several extra mtn sleds and do not mind taking the time with newer riders.



Quote:
--> Invite someone who has never ridden to ride your backup (wife') sled. Perhaps you will ignite a passion in someone who has never ridden before.

This happens several times a season in my group. I am still trying to figure out why you think sledders are so non-inclusive? You must have had a bad experience because none of what you listed really seems to be a problem from my perspective


Quote:
--> We need to unify around our common interests instead of finding differences among us. Powder sledders, please get off your high horses and be less condescending of trail riders. Quit making fun of parking lot posers. An expensive sled and expensive gear doesn't make you a "poser" to make fun of because the sledder's riding skill didn't meet your perceived expectations. Some newbies obviously have the financial means to buy nice new sled and matching gear but obviously don't have good riding skills. How about you be less judgemental and instead, invite and mentor them so they can remain in this activity and add to our numbers.

People are going to be people. Sounds like you want sledding to go Politically Correct. I suspect you will find massive resistance to that idea among sledders.


You seem to be suggesting recruiting to increase our numbers. Back to my original statement, there will NEVER be enough of "us" to shut "them" down, never... Filling the woods with newbies would likely do more harm than good.



Quote:
I'm done venting and I am very appreciative of two particular snowest members who have invited me repeatedly the last several seasons despite the fact that I suck as a rider and always will due to personal limitations-mental and physical- and my very limited ability to get time off work to ride as much a I wish and need in order to become a better rider.

Have a great day and I hope that land closures don't ruin your riding activities this season.

Land closures are a fact of life. You can choose a couple of routes. You can try to play the game they created and see if you can win, you can't. You can conscientiously object to the closures and play "catch me if you can". This can have expensive consequences if done incorrectly... LOL It is the only protest that will get their attention though. Following the rules and abdicating your rights is EXACTLY what they want you to do.


I fought "them" hard for a decade. I have a different perspective now. I understand that you as a newbie have a different one. My experience tells me that you are on a hopeful path but one that leads to disappointment in your fellow man in the end.


Good Luck
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Old 09-21-2016, 01:59 PM
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Default Minority

The vocal minority gets listened to on these matters. Do not give up! When we do not object the Government says: "We did not hear from anyone, so we thought it did not matter."
Well, it matters! Send those emails today!
Ronald Reagan said "Trust your fellow man - But verify!"

Response Written to Forest Service 9 14 2016
Jamie Kingsbury, Forest Supervisor
Objection Reviewing Officer
Mt. Baker – Snoqualmie National Forest
Attn. 1570 Appeals and Objections
2930 Wetmore Ave
Everett, WA 98201
objections-pnw-mtbaker-snoqualmie@fs.fed.us

Responsible Official, Erin Uloth
Mt. Baker District Ranger
Mt. Baker –Snoqualmie National Forest
810 State Route 20
Sedro Woolley, WA 98284.


Re: Objection to Upper North Fork Nooksack River Access Travel Management (ATM) Project.

Pursuant to 36 C.F.R Part 218.5 we file this objection to the draft decision for the Upper North Fork Nooksack Access and Travel Management Project (herein referred to as “Nooksack ATM”). The Nooksack ATM project is in the Mt. Baker Ranger District of the Mt. Baker – Snoqualmie National Forest near Glacier WA. We are in particular looking to keep open FS Road 31, 3160 and 3170 commonly referred to as Canyon Creek with references to “Bear Paw” and “Excelsior”

Maintaining road access provides an infrastructure to snowmobile in the National Forest that can be enjoyed and utilized for recreation and thereby contributes to local economies. As snowmobilers this area is of special interest to us!

Our objection is based on the Draft Decision Notice: Nooksack ATM’s failure to meet its goal. We maintain that the rationales for scheduled closures such as the justification that the ATM are flawed arguments. We question the justification that closing certain roads to the general public is necessary.
We believe in the scoping of ATM process there was confusion on impact of the ATM on roads 3160 and 3170. Without knowledge that a shift in forest access was being considered, we think snowmobilers had little chance to make initial comment and object.
1. Local volunteer organizations and Snowmobile clubs are willing to help with maintenance on these roads.

2. The effect on the rural community economy of losing major snowmobiling areas due to a bar on the ability to groom routes and hurt access has not been effectively evaluated and dealt with in this process.

3. This clearly contradicts the ability for snowmobilers to access one of the few Alpine areas outside of the Wilderness boundaries in the Mt Baker Snoqualmie Forest Plan,

We assert that snowmobiling on accustomed and traditional grounds is further secured by keeping 3160 and 3170 open for access and grooming.

4. Formal agreements with partners specifically the Whatcom Snowmobile Association in proposing to close FSR 3160 and 3170 is dismaying. To make a change without consulting a long-time formal partner demonstrates a lack of consideration and respect. Failure to refer to existing Forest Service documents demonstrates a lack of due diligence. It’s also dismaying that Forest Service does not recognize the contributions to effective road upkeep that the Club has played in obtaining past road maintenance grants for brushing, ditch work on FSRs 31 and 3160 and for culvert replacement on Road 31 at MP 8.50 and 8.735. The closure of Road 3170 does in fact remove access to Bear Paw Lake Trail No. 4430 which is in conflict with the statement in draft decision that asserts there will be no loss of access to official trails.

We believe that agreements made with Whatcom Snowmobile Association were recognized in environment assessment documents that were incorporated into the Forest Plan. Thus we think officers of the Whatcom Snowmobile Association need to be involved in any future written agreements. Relying on just one e-mailed inquiry and failing to follow up to establish affirmative contacts for discussion demonstrates a disregard for courteous, cooperative governance.
We snowmobilers endured a three year closure of this area from 2012 to 2015. We hoped this experience would lead to a more proactive approach to keep this open, instead of emergency reactive type mode of behavior. With outdoors recreation being a multi-billion dollar industry, upon which many rural communities depend, such decisions are critical for them.
We look forward to the Forest Service keeping FS31, 3160 and 3070 roads open for public use.
Sincerely,
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Old 09-22-2016, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by eddy View Post
The vocal minority gets listened to on these matters. Do not give up! When we do not object the Government says: "We did not hear from anyone, so we thought it did not matter."
Well, it matters! Send those emails today!
Ronald Reagan said "Trust your fellow man - But verify!"



Keep in mind that I HAVE actually tried what you suggest. I sent nearly 10 years fighting for my land use rights. I organized a club where there was none. I wrote letters, lots and lots of letters. I took and submitted pictures, I attended meetings. I worked HARD on that project for a LONG time.


The net result was no loss in my immediate area, the one I concentrated on, but a 40,000 acre loss in the overall forest plan.


You can not win, you are sadly outnumbered and underfunded. The other side does not follow the rules like you are trying to do, besides they invented the game. They use OUR money to fight us.... That is how difficult your battle is.


If I had not actually lived this experience in detail, I would not be posting such negative things. I watched our club disband because nobody cared about anything but beer. We lost land, we will likely lose more. I watched SAWS disband for similar reasons, no support, no money, no progress. I then read through a list of donations one of our rich liberal clients had laying about. The first two pages contained over $200,000 of donations to a dozen organizations, there were at least 8-9 pages. Large donations to Sierra Club and Winter Wildlands and Old Broads for Wilderness(no sh1t). We can not compete with the money the other side can generate, even if every sledder in the country gave all they could.

Even in light of the recent NFL BS, I think peaceful protests are going to be the ONLY way we retain ANY rights to recreate on the public lands as they were originally designated. If you think you can beat them with well worded letters and following the protocol, my experience suggests, you are sadly mistaken.


Best of Luck
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Old 09-22-2016, 09:08 PM
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Polaris is a multi billion dollar company..
Arctic Cat is Half a Billion dollar company..
BRP multi Billion dollar company..

I think its time that these companies stand up and invest some time and money in the fight to keep our riding areas... because if our areas get closed down, we stop buying sleds...and then the manufactures will really feel it.
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:52 AM
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Old 09-23-2016, 05:55 AM
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:20 AM
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Old 10-02-2016, 07:52 AM
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Old 10-02-2016, 05:53 PM
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Old 10-02-2016, 05:57 PM
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:01 AM
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:20 AM
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:37 AM
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:28 AM
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  #21  
Old 10-24-2016, 07:53 AM
Red Mtn Red Mtn is offline
Currently: Sled shopping...
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  #22  
Old 10-24-2016, 08:26 AM
rhalloran rhalloran is offline
Currently: Not set.
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  #23  
Old 10-25-2016, 06:33 AM
Red Mtn Red Mtn is offline
Currently: Sled shopping...
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  #24  
Old 11-03-2016, 07:26 AM
sillyrabbit0420 sillyrabbit0420 is offline
Currently: If you're not crashing or getting stuck, you aren't having fun
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2016, 12:35 PM
BC SnoX BC SnoX is offline
Currently: Gone fishing...permanently.
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