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Power Commander Question

S
Sep 30, 2012
46
5
8
Minot ND
Anyone use a power commander? I want to get one for my phazer mtx, but was wondering just how hard is it to use? Does it come preloaded and other stuff. Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advanced!
 
sledneck,

If you purchase a Power Commander from a dealer - such as Ulmer Racing for your Yamaha - he will have already loaded a map in the PCV for you to run. In fact, for your twin cylinder Phazer, the PCV will control both fuel and Ignition in one box!!
Whether you have a stock machine, or a wildly modded sled with turbo or intake or pipe combination, he can send you a map.
Allen works very hard to establish solid fuel maps for the Yamaha machines. With DynoJet jumping sponsoring the Factory Yamaha Snowmobile racers, Ulmer Racing is the tuning shop developing their fuel maps.
Give them a call at 605-387-2833. They are located in Menno, SD.

The usage of a PCV is simple and easy to understand. When viewing all the fueling tables on a screen, the columns and rows are itemized by %Throttle and RPM. If you have a boosted application, you can fuel your sled in terms of RPM versus Pressure.
With any other questions, feel free to contact me. I'd be happy to walk you through the functions of the PCV.

Regards
~T.J.
 
T

TRUEBLUEMAX

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2010
751
280
63
Hooper, Utah
sledneck,

If you purchase a Power Commander from a dealer - such as Ulmer Racing for your Yamaha - he will have already loaded a map in the PCV for you to run. In fact, for your twin cylinder Phazer, the PCV will control both fuel and Ignition in one box!!
Whether you have a stock machine, or a wildly modded sled with turbo or intake or pipe combination, he can send you a map.
Allen works very hard to establish solid fuel maps for the Yamaha machines. With DynoJet jumping sponsoring the Factory Yamaha Snowmobile racers, Ulmer Racing is the tuning shop developing their fuel maps.
Give them a call at 605-387-2833. They are located in Menno, SD.

The usage of a PCV is simple and easy to understand. When viewing all the fueling tables on a screen, the columns and rows are itemized by %Throttle and RPM. If you have a boosted application, you can fuel your sled in terms of RPM versus Pressure.
With any other questions, feel free to contact me. I'd be happy to walk you through the functions of the PCV.

Regards
~T.J.

You stated that the fuel is mapped by throttle position or boost versus rpm, but why is there no load input in the setup. Does the stock computer take care of that on both applications? On an N/A setup you would still need to read off of the map sensor in order to know what the load is not just rpm and throttle position. In a boosted scenario you would still have to know what the throttle position is to truly know load values not just the boost pressure.

Anyone care to expound on this? I would love to be educated on this.
 
You stated that the fuel is mapped by throttle position or boost versus rpm, but why is there no load input in the setup. Does the stock computer take care of that on both applications? On an N/A setup you would still need to read off of the map sensor in order to know what the load is not just rpm and throttle position. In a boosted scenario you would still have to know what the throttle position is to truly know load values not just the boost pressure.

Anyone care to expound on this? I would love to be educated on this.

To directly answer your question - you already stated the answer that the stock computer takes care of this on both applications.
I can't speak exactly to how each manufacturer creates its electronics or the internal complexities of the ECU, but this is generally speaking:

The "load" term for fueling is basically a misnomer and not a factor in the operations of the ECU. Purely it would be asking the ECU to determine how much resistance is being applied to the rubber track belting....there are no sensors here and the ECU cannot figure that out. It is a box that relies on electrical signals and information sent to it from sensors. Water temp, MAP, IAT, crank angle, throttle position, etc. are a few of these sensors. It then references a series of tables (sometimes a 5+ dimensional combination of %TP with RPM with MAP with IAT with perhaps DET sensed condition) to calculate what output is sent to the injectors.
It will also probably have the ability to the calculate outputs based on "delta" of each of the sensors. That would be the blips of the throttle within a specified time interval (10% change in throttle within 3ms for example)
But none of these input a true "load" parameter to the ECU. Effectively all of the combined sensors are what send information to the ECU allowing it calculate its proper output.
If there were a direct conversion to simulate load, that might come from the condition where more throttle (%TP) is required in heavy wet snow to get the sled moving than an just idling down a hardpack trail. The input that the ECU would see is still just the %TP.

Where this all boils down to is what the ECU is outputting to the sled. It has taken account of any sort of condition that the sled is being exposed to by compiling all data and then fueling the engine properly.
The Power Commander only piggybacks off of what the ECU has already done (in this case - it has figured out how much "load' is on the sled and sent out its pulse accordingly). Then, if we desire an increase in fuel at a point in the map, we insert a positive number in the map.

The tables in the Control Center software allow you to do both conditions - if I did not make that clear before I apologize. With a boosted application, you would have Both fuel tables available (one for RPM vs %TP, the another for RPM vs Boost). This is effectively what the ECU is doing as well - finding a single cell between a series of tables under a combination of operating conditions to pick out a duty cycle to deliver.
Pair the PCV with an ignition module and your would have another set of tables at your hands for tuning. Still, under all conditions, these tables are piggybacking off of the ECU after it has done all the processing of data - and then we alter the delivery to the engine (spark timing or injection amount) to suit our needs in the modified form.

This may be long-winded, but as you can see the level of sophistication in an ECU far exceeds what can be conveyed through words on a screen. I hope that this helped clarify things to some degree...

Regards,
~T.J.
 
T

TRUEBLUEMAX

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2010
751
280
63
Hooper, Utah
That's awesome! Thanks. That is kind of what I figured. You are right in that the ECU can't exactly determine load but can make a "calculated" figure on what the load is. One more question I am curious about. Does the PCV make changes after the ECU sends its signals to the injectors and coils, or does the PCV alter the inputs that the ECU is receiving from the sensors to make it alter fuel and spark? I work more in the automotive world and there are instances where people do it both ways. Just kind of wondering how you guys run it.

As a side note, I would like to say how happy I am with the PCV. I installed an intake and full exhaust on my sled last year which gave it a good boost in power so I needed to install the PCV anyway to get things right. After I saw how clean this system made it run I wished I had put it on even before I put the mods onto the sled. Thanks for a great product.
 
Thank you for your kind comments about the Power Commander and the Dynojet company. I will pass that along to our employees as they go out to enjoy their Thanksgiving Weekend...we do strive to create the best quality products and also have them perform the best on everyone's applications.
We're very excited to hear when people find how finely they can tune their machine when using a Power Commander. While OEM's these days are getting very good at dialing in fuel maps, they cannot control deviations of specified flow rates among their injector suppliers, or even the small differences in coil resistance....all of these itty bitty factors, when paired with an ECU mapped to be an "overall good" across the average machine, it might not be perfect for yours. This is where the fuel controller makes things perfect....Plus, the OEMs requirement to adhere to EPA laws makes for some very detuned engines -- which is a whole different topic where a piggyback controller can be of benefit to increase performance.

Regarding the changes that the PCV makes -- we are always AFTER the output of the ECU in pure piggyback form. We make it a point not "spoof" sensors into sending altered signals to the ECU. Like you've most likely seen in the automotive world - by intercepting the i.e.: air temp sensor - a person can lie to the ECU making it think that it is 40* when it really is 0* in an effort to pull some fuel out of the engine. Or a resistor placed across a narrowband exhaust sensor can fool the ECU to thinking it is still in its correct range and not throw a check engine light.
Our PCV's only make true changes after the ECU has calculated everything correctly without altering input signals...

Thank you for your educational questions.

Regards,
~T.J.
 
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