MDS weights

Frostbite said:

What primary springs are you guys using?

Do you plan to try a differnt spring or just tailor the clutch weights to your spring?

Completely stock secondary?

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I'm using the SLP 120/340. My sled is 09 M8 with slp pipe set and stock secondary 8-10k elevation.

First ride the weights really seemed to improve the pull and backshift on the sled but the snow was set up and anything would have hooked up that well then. Also got my rpms up to 8000 where I wanted it. Next ride was in great snow but the set screws got loose on 2 of my weights and my backshift really suffered, even then pulled pretty good, just didn't do well if I backed out and got back into the gas and picked up the dreaded low end bog. Steve said that spring should work great, but I still plan on going to the speedwerx 125/340 that you had good luck with, hoping to get more out of it. Seems many don't like the way SLP springs work on the cats I guess. Steve set me up with 75.9 grams all in the tip. Had 68 stock light tips in before that. I've only got 2 rides with MDS hoping to get up in the next few days to do some fine tuning in good snow.

Forwarning, put more locktight on your set screws. had one fall out and the other two are loose.

What MDS weights would be recommended for a turbo application?

Say a BD kit running 12 psi @ 8-11k?

Dogmeat said:

What MDS weights would be recommended for a turbo application?

Say a BD kit running 12 psi @ 8-11k?

Click to expand...

There is a thread in the Turbo section.

Dogmeat said:

What MDS weights would be recommended for a turbo application?

Say a BD kit running 12 psi @ 8-11k?

Click to expand...

He is currently working on a turbo specific weight. It will let you run the straight 36 helix. Should be available soon.

I tried mine for the first time yesterday and they didn't work so hot. My bottom end was very lazy until 5,200ish RPM and my shift speed went from 8,030-8,070 at the very best (I'm shooting for 8,200) and then dropped off to 7,700 when the going to really tough. My weights came with the inner hole loaded up. I called Steve last evening and he gave my the remedy to my issues (remove the bolts from the inner holes). I will try them again and report back.

I plan to do some other playing as well with this setup.

1. How do these weights work with my other secondary all set up as SLP recommends with a 44/36 helix but, with the Skidoo puple/purple secondary spring?

2. How does the stock secondary work with a stock 36 degree helix with the Fett Brothers Green/white secondary spring I love so much?

3. How will the highly touted D&D Orange (170/305) spring that reportedly pulls so hard, work with the MDS clutch weights, that are touted for the very same reason?

Frostbite said:

I tried mine for the first time yesterday and they didn't work so hot. My bottom end was very lazy until 5,200ish RPM and my shift speed went from 8,030-8,070 at the very best (I'm shooting for 8,200) and then dropped off to 7,700 when the going to really tough. My weights came with the inner hole loaded up. I called Steve last evening and he gave my the remedy to my issues (remove the bolts from the inner holes). I will try them again and report back.

I plan to do some other playing as well with this setup.

1. How do these weights work with my other secondary all set up as SLP recommends with a 44/36 helix but, with the Skidoo puple/purple secondary spring?

2. How does the stock secondary work with a stock 36 degree helix with the Fett Brothers Green/white secondary spring I love so much?

3. How will the highly touted D&D Orange (170/305) spring that reportedly pulls so hard, work with the MDS clutch weights, that are touted for the very same reason?

Click to expand...

If you're running a stockish M8, you'll want your weight in the tip only, like Steve said. That will take care of most of your problem. Was obviously a mistake if he sent them to you with weight in the middle hole for an M8.

These weights will raise your engagement rpm slightly. That D&D orange spring would be almost unrideable, in my opinion.

If your rpm was down, when you remove weight it will pick up the bottom end, you may find something with the other helix but take both with you and get readings, I also would have got reading with them heavy and lower rpm. Your problem with the rpm dropping seams odd. you may want to look at your motor mounts, especially the mag side mounts, since adding extra mounts to my m1000 the rpm deosn't pull down near as bad. The motor wasn't moving back it was twisting and locking up the shift. Are you running the stock secondary ie 36* orange spring / how many plastic washer and or shift assist. These weights should work as good and prob better than the MTX weights (mine did) so the other secondary options may work but you want to test them back to back with readings on track speed at the same rpm. The D&D spring will raise your engagement above 5000 rpm, so will the SLP Blue/Pink and the SW H5 - Red.

Frostbite said:

I tried mine for the first time yesterday and they didn't work so hot. My bottom end was very lazy until 5,200ish RPM and my shift speed went from 8,030-8,070 at the very best (I'm shooting for 8,200) and then dropped off to 7,700 when the going to really tough. My weights came with the inner hole loaded up. I called Steve last evening and he gave my the remedy to my issues (remove the bolts from the inner holes). I will try them again and report back.

I plan to do some other playing as well with this setup.

1. How do these weights work with my other secondary all set up as SLP recommends with a 44/36 helix but, with the Skidoo puple/purple secondary spring?

2. How does the stock secondary work with a stock 36 degree helix with the Fett Brothers Green/white secondary spring I love so much?

3. How will the highly touted D&D Orange (170/305) spring that reportedly pulls so hard, work with the MDS clutch weights, that are touted for the very same reason?

Click to expand...

Frostebite....My 09 Crossfire 8 141 w/SLP full pipe does not like any weight added in the inner hole on the MDS weights. LIke u said its just lazy down low. I have tried adding weight to that area twice and it just didnt work out to well. Keep us posted on what u find out when u try the 44/36 helix. Right now I am running a 46/40 and still seeing a lot of belt slippage So steve has recomended I go to a striaght 36 or 38. Other have reminded me that his weights are designed for straigh helix. I do have a 42/36 that i would like to try at some point thats why i am curious to see how u make out with your 44/36. Again u should notice a huge difference once u get that wieght out of the inner hole. The problem I had was that I already had my tip maxed out so I had to go to a purple cat spring with a 240 finnish rate to keep my R's down out on top.

I removed the bolts from the inner holes on the weights. It was the very first trip for this brand new primary clutch I was using. I see a ring of black about halfway up on the primary clutch sheaves indicating belt slippage but, why in the middle of the sheaves? Weird.

The secondary I was using is a 09 take off I got from Troy at RV sports. It's stock with an orange spring and a 36 degree helix. I pulled it apart to check it out and I see what I think is a shift assist kit in it. I was halfway into it when I got called away last evening. Do these weights prefer a shift assist in the secondary?

My sled does have the SLP Performance edition kit. Steve mentioned that with the porting and head work that comes with the kit, these sleds make a lot of torque and that's why he put a bolt in the inner hole. It made sense to me and one of his guys with the same SLP kit was having success with the bolt in there at that time. He has since removed the inner bolts as well.

With my heavy hitters on my RX-1 (yes it was a four stroke) to get the maximum amount of arm stretching pull that many of us were able to obtain, the trick was to load the inner hole as much as the old girl could take. There was a fine line betwwen arm stretching and too much weight and that doggy feel. The sled would get a lot more responsive as the inner hole was unloaded but, as you gained response you were losing the low end grunt.

I am new to these weights but based upon what I learned with the Heavy Hitters, I suspect that by leaving the inner hole completely empty we are leaving some degree of low end grunt on the table. Has anyone tried a cut off bolt or a short aluminum bolt in the inner holes?

On the Heavy Hitters, the inner hole was your bottom end adjustment, the middle hole was your midrange and the tip hole was your shift speed adjustment. I suspect these weights are no different.

I guess that's why this is a bit strange to me. Yes, the bolts in the inner holes are too heavy and at the very least they needsto be lightened up or gone. However, it seems like I should be pulling a washer off the tip if I want to raise my shift speed. I'll see what removing the inner bolts does for me first.

The other idea I have is, if the inner holes on the weights are left empty for good throttle response. Perhaps one can load the motor on the bottom end through a slightly steeper initial helix angle? Yes, I know these clutch weights are built to do that and I'm sure a 46 or a 44 or maybe even 42 may be too much angle but maybe a 40/36 may work well, depending on elevation of course. Just a thought.

If you want to fine tune you can cut grind or what ever you need to do. I take some options to the hill and test, you can just push in the primary and stuff something (hard plastic) in between the spider and clutch so you can make adjustments without taking apart the clutch. But make sure the bolts are not loctited in and you can get them out, then after you get it setup the way you want then put loctite on them. I have a long T handle allen wrench from snap on that cost about $7 if I remember right.

Using a helix to control rpm may not work, on my turbo I am running a straight 36* and I also ran a 36/46* they both hit the same rpm but the 36* pulls 5mph more track speed. You may want to try some stiffer springs with more weight.

I put in the orange D&D spring in with the MDS weights. It was kind of cool to have an orange spring in the primary and in the secondary but, once I fired up the sled on the stand in the shop, the clutches didn't engage until 4,600-4,700 RPM. That's just too high for picking around the trees in the mountains.

So, I grabbed the Polaris 100/340 Steve sent me and put it in. It is a lot shorter than the D&D spring and it engages a full 1,000 RPM earlier (3,600-3,700 RPM). Since it's so short I understand it wil act like a lower tension spring? If so, what would this spring equate to in say a Speedwerx spring? I was looking at buying a Speedwerx Blue 120/310 but, this spring may be doing the same thing for me? I see there's a Polaris 100/310 that may be a great spring as well. Maybe it would equate to 80/285ish Arctic Cat spring?

M8 2011 stock

First mds weights in Sweden??

sealevel
M8 2011 stock with ultraq can
stock secondary, 40 degree helix, shift assist
82g weights all in tip, Steve set them up
gold spring 75/275
engagement 3000-3200
pulls hard to 8000-8100 then climbs to 8200-8300
very smooth in the trees compared to stock but pulls alot harder when hitting throttle

I rode McCall Idaho this past weekend with the MDS weights. The weights had 2 steel washers and a short steel bolt in each weight tip. The inner bolts were removed.

Friday the snow was ridiculously deep and everyone was stuck many times. We were pushing tons of snow and I used the Polaris 100/340 spring and I like the engagement of the spring very much but, I was only pulling 7,500-7,800 RPM climbing with the stock secondary 36 degree helix with the stock orange spring.

Seeing this I figured I would try the longer Speedwerx white 125/340 spring in the primary for Saturday. I was able to pull 8,000 RPM on several occassions and the sled ran great but, I developed a weird stumble/hesitiation on engagement that I hadn't had ther day before.

So on Sunday, I went back to the lower engagement Polaris 100/340 and added one of the Thunder products glide washers under each end of the spring to maybe help a little with the shift speed and hopefully not hurt the nice smooth engagement. To mix things up a bit, I put on my other secondary with the SLP setup on the sled. It had a 44/36 helix with a Skidoo Purple/Purple spring.

The first thing I noticed was the sled was now was now super responsive. The sled absolutely rocked and pulled about 8,300ish RPM in the powder on the frozen lake at 5,000 feet.

Then we got to the mountains and things changed. It was climbing fairly good and pulling good shift speed at the lower elevations but, as the elevation increased the shift speed dropped off dramatically. The snow was great but now I was only seeing 6,900 to 7,400 RPM. We were headed up another several thousand feet so, I popped off the clutch cover and removed all bolts and two washer from each weight tip. Tje weights were now empty. Wow, now the sled had the zippy feel it had down on the lake and was pulling RPM again. I was instantly back up at 8,180-8,300 and as we reached the highest peaks I was pulling 8,200 (my target shift speed) and climbing very well.

And no, I did not once look at my track speed. I had the RPM screen up on my speedometer.

So the moral of the story to me is:

There is a much better backshift available but, it's fleeting and perhaps not worth chasing. Now, saying that, I would like to try this setup again for elevation but, I have to wonder how much harder (if at all) the sled would climb with the bolts and washers back in the tips, if I could pull the proper RPM.

Whats the rates on the purple secondary spring. You changed a lot so its hard to get a good judgment. I am thinking about throwing a 34* with shift assist (I think with the shift assist you need less helix angle) in my m1000 just to see what happens, hopefully it will have higher track speed and pull more weight on top. If it does I will prop get a 40/34r* helix. For high elevation.

Yes, I do have a shift assist kit on the SLP setup secondary.

The stock secondary does NOT have a shift assist kit but, it does have the 2 black plastic spacers under the outer end of the spring and the thin black plastic washer (that the shift assist kit replaces) under the inner end of the spring.

not sure what you meant, my stock secondary came with 2 black washers and nothing else under the spring, are you saying there is 2 washer/spacers and a washer.

Yes, there are two thick black washers on the outside of the spring that you can see while the secondary is on the sled.

There is also a thin fairly wide black plastic washer around the shaft where the spring sits on the inside of the spring that isn't visible unlerss you take the secondary apart.

At least it's on the stock secondary I have. I'm fairly sure that is the part I replaced when I added the shift assist kit acouple years ago.

Is that clearer?

yep, my 09 didn't have one.