its gotta be rich cascade..with what your running you should be pulling 9000...that sucks bad..I hope you find the problem and it runs awesome after ...
Help with 09 D8???
- Thread starter DragonSlayer1
- Start date
its gotta be rich cascade..with what your running you should be pulling 9000...that sucks bad..I hope you find the problem and it runs awesome after ...
There seem to be identical sleds at the same elevation that need +/- 2 grams of weight. If you are running Ethanol with your wires unplugged you can test for a rich condition. Plug in the wires it will lean jetting about 5%. This leans the system too much at lower throttle positions so you shouldn't run with the wires plugged in for more than a WOT test. Plug readings/ piston wash will also tell the story on fuel.
The bigger question is why are some sleds dogs? It's possible that some have the TPS setting off with a "rich" bias. This is the heart of the sled so it has to be right. Another possibility is a sensor malfunction...for example the pipe sensor reduces fuel when it gets hot, might add timing. Finally the ECU will add fuel, pull timing based on fuel quality, detonation. The SLP single has "leaned down" your top end so if it's rich-why?
Next question is clutching-have you made clutching changes because of low power in an attempt to get performance? Why did you change the driven spring, was your belt slipping? Tried the blk/wht in the driven on my sled...it killed top end and my sled runs strong. You are also running a drive clutch spring with a high finish rate & MTX weights that total 70 grams, no tip weight added. Stiffer springs have higher finish rates and heavy weights light in the tips-could this be part of the problem getting full shift?
In our area we hve a dealer that sets the TPS during new sled setup, we have good qualaity non ethanol fuel and sleds don't run rich after you add the SLP pipe. Doesn't solve your problem but maybe something to compare against.
If you keep changing things in the clutching and your rpm isn't changing you need to start looking in other places. Clutch alignment and center to center should be verified. Also consider that your exhaust valve springs may be too stiff for your altitude causing them not to fully open. This can effect peak rpm too. At your altitude to you should have no issue pulling proper rpm with the stock setup. What you have added should have only made it better
I tried all of this to just try to get it to pull rpms, I am not saying this is the best setup. I have tried the ethenol wires plugged and unplugged, same day same conditions. I run non ethenol fuel so that should not be the issue, heck I even tried 87 octane fuel with ethenol and ran the same. I just put the stiffer secondary spring in to try and keep it from shifting out so fast and see if the would make it pull rpm. I know you dont want to try and change rpm with the secondary but I thought I would see what it would do. I have had it at the dealer and they supposebly checked everything, I had already checked and adjusted the tps, I made a 5 volt power supply to test with. My tps is spot on, its about .704 with throttle plates closed, dealer also verified tps. I currently have yellow exhaust valve springs in to. I tried to run the ves old school also, I plugged them off individualy to bypass the solonoid, and with the yellow springs I think I may have lost a little low end and it did not change on top. I have the solonoid hooked up now still running the yellow springs. I have not checked center to center or clutch alignment but c-c has to be close because belt deflection is good. I reshimmed my primary last year and then sent it out and had it balanced, side to side is about .012 with a new belt.
Well it's easy to see your frustration-you have done way more than most of us, covered the bases. You can get belt deflection right even with CC off a little. Clutch alignment issues usually show up as-sled runs strong and then R's drop as the clutch builds heat-doesn't sound like that's your problem. Much the same thing if your track alignment is off or chain case gears not aligned. But drivers out of phase with the track has been reported once or twice-low probability.
So-you could have a bad TPS even if it's set right, bad exhaust sensor, etc.
Crank could be out of phase (not 180* offset)-that's not likely.
The yellow EV springs are way to weak for my taste but shouldn't affect top end just let the valves open prematurely. Yellow is 2.4/3.6 vs Pink 4.7/7.1; Orange 5.5/8.3
If your plugs/piston wash show a rich condition I'd focus on electrical.
The clutch heat is very minimal on mine, as far as the tps I slowly opened the thottle and watched the volts slowly climb I did no see any bad spots. I was wondering about the exhaust sensor or the sensor in the airbox, I would try my buddies sensors one at a time but his sled runs almost identical to mine except he is consistantly 100 rpms shy of me. As far as piston wash I think it will be hard to get a good reading since less than half the time I am full throttle so it will show lean because it is definetely lean in the middle. If I let my sled set for even a couple minutes then get on and go to take off, it stumbles so bad it dont even want to move until it biulds some heat. And sorry dragonslayer I am not trying to rob your thread, just feel we all have a similar problem and would like for us all to figure it out. I absolutly love this chassis, and think these things will absolutly rock if they would run correctly.
cascade, on my hotrod hunting buggy with fuel injection I have gotten the tps wet crossing rivers..its junk..test good but motor wont pull hard..change it out..purrs and rips..so dont rule out the tps because it passes standard test..it could be still causing issues...also when the 08's first came out guys were really having trouble with snow injestion...some later had problems with runability issues..turned out the air temp sensors were contaminated..also have been told by polaris to sub a known good exhaust sensor on if all other runability test find nothing..some of those also have been contaminated and causing runability issues....
Thanks for the info - How do you know how stiff your exhaust valve springs should be?
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Cascade, I ride the same elevations, did very close to the clutching set-up in the "increasing your IQ" sticky that AKSnowrider posted (need to read between the posts to see whitch helix to use) it rips! I'm not a mechanic so i had Skagit Valley Polaris do it, they might share the secret as it seemed simple enough, but i'm not sure of the particulars... They did some extensive testing at the end of last season... after about 30 minuets of bsing and removing clutches, replacing springs, weights, washers, helix, reasembly, alingment... the next ride was like a turbo sled 8450 on the dot!
Sorta a trial end error thing, but generally if you are around 8000 ft and up you run the yellow springs. It's a hard thing to tell for sure if they are opening all the way. You may pull the valves and see if there is discoloration on the tips. That may give an indication what is going on.
I believe Ron had posted that they should be fully open around 7200 rpm. It was common on the 02-05 800 VES motors that the valves would not fully open at altitude. Especially, the flat land sleds that were running stiffer springs.
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I;m running the orange spring.
powderminer what helix are you running, I have tried the suggested helix by some. I tried a 64-42-.46, it is currently on my buddies sled. The problem is the finish angle on all the ones people are running is the same(42), it made no difference on mine. Carls cycle reccomends a 40 but not sure about trying it yet as I think I have other problems.
