SHOT Related Question

Frostbite · Dec 16, 2018

I have to give kudos to Skidoo for designing the SHOT system! What a great innovation! I am hopeful that like in the case of electronic reverse that this technology is shared among the other manufacturers. Maybe Skidoo could trade use of the SHOT system for use of the Alpha One rear skid design if it turns out to be the best thing since sliced bread.

Back to the SHOT system, I understand the super capacitor that supplies the power for the SHOT electric start system must be charged prior to use and the snowmobile must be pull started the first start of the day. Once the engine is run for a fairly short period of time and charges the SHOT system, it allows the sled to be started without pulling the rope if restarted within roughly three hours of the last shutdown.

My question is, has Skidoo considered adding a 120 volt plug on the SHOT equipped snowmobiles that would allow one to plug in the sled and charge the SHOT system in the comfort of their shop or cabin or even enclosed trailer and as long as you got on the sled on the snow in roughly three hours since charging, you would never have to pull the rope at all.

I am curious to hear why this seemingly minor modification to what's already an amazing innovation wouldn't this work?

caper11 · Dec 16, 2018

Not necessary, and the alpha skid is no where near as good as the doo skid.

wwracer · Dec 16, 2018

Shot requires direct injection to operate, wont see Doo giving that tech up anytime soon...
As far as a plug in, dont give them any ideas. If they did, it would be another overpriced add on in the accessory catalog...

ak · Dec 16, 2018

The shot system on my sled is hit are miss never consistent. It’s been in for a update but didn’t make much difference.

Norona · Dec 16, 2018

You probably won't see three hours, maybe a little over 2 if it is warm. I did a lot of testing with it in 2017 and I ski toured off my sled and was gone just over 2 hours and it did still work but Whistler is a warmer climate. That is why it is advertised well under its working time for those who have to deal with minus 30 which will definitely shorten the time you have to leave the sled. It also need a lot of electrical power, which the G4 has, which other brands don't need or have. One thing people forget and why new things cost a lot from a manufacture is all the testing that HAS to go into design, test and produce a new part, as manufactures are under a bigger magnifying glass when they produce something in the industry, where as in the aftermarket they do not have to do anywhere near the testing and proof to release something. I am not suggesting here anything bad on the aftermarket side, it is they are not under the same umbrella in that area, which is why things like a turbo, suspension etc coming from a manufacture is and will be more than from aftermarket. Glad you love it, so many guys now realize that pushing a button is way better than pulling a rope, even if it is easy! Just ask someone trying to sell a 2018/19 sled without shot, way easeir if you have shot on there.

wwracer · Dec 16, 2018

ak said:
The shot system on my sled is hit are miss never consistent. It’s been in for a update but didn’t make much difference.

I had intermittent problems with mine after the original update was done, took it in this summer, and they changed the ECU. Got close to a hundred starts or so, without a problem... heck ya!!

Frostbite · Dec 16, 2018

Great answers guys but, no one touched my original question of why the SHOT system couldn't be designed or redesigned for the super capacitor to be able to be charged from either an onboard or external (12 or 120 volt) source.

Chadx · Dec 16, 2018

SHOT has just enough oomph to work with a slightly or fully warmed up engine. So cold start on SHOT seems unlikely. They probably could engineer what you mention, but even if it could work on a cold engine, you'd need to be very close to the trailhead since capacitor won't store for too long. And, if you need electric start for every start, they make a battery start for that. So unlikely they will ever consider it.

simnil · Dec 16, 2018

Frostbite said:
Great answers guys but, no one touched my original question of why the SHOT system couldn't be designed or redesigned for the super capacitor to be able to be charged from either an onboard or external (12 or 120 volt) source.

Pull starting a modern fully functional fuel injected sled is not hard, warm or shop warm it is half a pull, cold just slowly pull it round a few times to soften things up and then one good pull and it is running.
If you are unable to pull start your sled then perhaps you should have gone for the traditional e-start option instead.

snowmanx · Dec 17, 2018

simnil said:
Pull starting a modern fully functional fuel injected sled is not hard, warm or shop warm it is half a pull, cold just slowly pull it round a few times to soften things up and then one good pull and it is running.
If you are unable to pull start your sled then perhaps you should have gone for the traditional e-start option instead.

I've seen this topic before, is it such a big deal to pull start the sled once a ride? I don't see what the issue is.

donbrown · Dec 17, 2018

After pull starting sled the SHOT is charged in just a few minutes

motox54 · Dec 17, 2018

Frostbite said:
Great answers guys but, no one touched my original question of why the SHOT system couldn't be designed or redesigned for the super capacitor to be able to be charged from either an onboard or external (12 or 120 volt) source.

To answer your question, Yes it can be done. you would need a controller and a 12 Volt power source. Will it ever happen? I highly doubt it.

donbrown · Dec 17, 2018

snowmanx said:
I've seen this topic before, is it such a big deal to pull start the sled once a ride? I don't see what the issue is.

I think there are very few reasons this is necessary.

One of my riding partners tore their rotator cup and cant pull start with out getting off the sled and using the other arm.

So we start the sled and he is go to go for the day with SHOT !

Barcode · Dec 17, 2018

The Shot U cap seems to be at full charge at 13.6/13.7v. at least that's what our sled is showing. We've yet to have enough courage to physically cut n paste the wiring harness. To wire in a way to externally charge the Shot U cap.
So saying that, we're not sure 12v would be enough to active the sled to start. On our Alpha we have a regular e start installed but we're using a U cap instead of the battery, when we're down to 12.4v or lower there's not enough voltage to start the sled.
The actual Shot U cap has a lot of wires attached to it. But only two show actual voltage the black and red.

snoblind04 · Dec 17, 2018

I don't think ski doo really shared the electronic reverse, I think Polaris got it as part of a law suit settlement. The mfg's seam to file patent infringement law suits againist each other all the time. I think Cat had to wait to the patent to run out.

ezra · Dec 17, 2018

caper11 said:
Not necessary, and the alpha skid is no where near as good as the doo skid.

yeah so you have spent enough time on one to know this ?
or just a doo talk rimjob my dealer said guy ?

Frostbite · Dec 17, 2018

It's just a question and great comments guys!

Barcode is closest to what I was asking. If a 12 volt battery will start a sled with electric start, why not the SHOT system? However, I still think plugging the SHOT system into 120 volt would be the ticket. However, I am more than happy to pull the sled at the start of the day.

Chadx · Dec 18, 2018

Frostbite said:
If a 12 volt battery will start a sled with electric start, why not the SHOT system?

For the reasons I outlined earlier (cold engines turning resistance, etc.). The SHOT system is totally different than an electric start system. It is not just a capacitor instead of a battery. SHOT does not use a starter at all (which is part of the weight savings). It simply dumps juice backwards through the stator. It is wimpy. Engine has to be warmed up a tiny bit at least. When you push the SHOT button, the ECU first slowly indexes the engine to the correct position then spins it 1/2 a rotation or so which is all it can manage. That is enough to fire the engine. Even if you charged up the current capacitor with outside power, the current design would not reliably start a cold engine. So skidoo would need redesign with larger capacitor, more weight, maybe even add a starter, etc. Which defeats the purpose.

Frostbite · Dec 18, 2018

Gotcha Chadx!

Maybe the idea you expressed will become the lightweight electric start of the future?

Matte Murder · Dec 18, 2018

Chadx said:
For the reasons I outlined earlier (cold engines turning resistance, etc.). The SHOT system is totally different than an electric start system. It is not just a capacitor instead of a battery. SHOT does not use a starter at all (which is part of the weight savings). It simply dumps juice backwards through the stator. It is wimpy. Engine has to be warmed up a tiny bit at least. When you push the SHOT button, the ECU first slowly indexes the engine to the correct position then spins it 1/2 a rotation or so which is all it can manage. That is enough to fire the engine. Even if you charged up the current capacitor with outside power, the current design would not reliably start a cold engine. So skidoo would need redesign with larger capacitor, more weight, maybe even add a starter, etc. Which defeats the purpose.

Half a rotation is not all it can manage, it’s just all that’s necessary. You can get 2-3 starts out of shot before it needs to charge. I’ve got a neck injury that makes pull starting a sled painful. I’d love to be able to jump the sled or charge the shot and never pull start it. If I bought another Doo I’d get it with an e start. 10 more pounds would be worth it to me for my crippled self.

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