2011 Pro plug fouling machine.

Old Scud-doo · Jan 31, 2017

Murph said:
I read your thread when researching. This motor is brand new. I typically do top-ends around 1000-1500 miles at the most. We ride right out the back door and ride hard. 1000 mile top end is acceptable to me based on the power output of a modern 2 stroke 800.

Dang. That pretty much removes that as a possibility then. Hope you find the gremlins. Too bad these motors don't log more data so you could plug in and see a code that was thrown. Trouble shooting is a bitch. I remember all the stuff we tried and looked at before determining pistons and rings. Frustrating. Well good luck to you!

Murph · Feb 5, 2017

Update: Problem still here

Changed stator-- no change

Changed capacitor and Voltage regulator-- no change

Changed load shed relay-- no change

Changed Mag side coil (since it fouled plug, PTO also really dark but still firing)-- no change

Next on the hit parade:
Change ECU
Change fuel tank (for known good pump)
Change injectors

If problem persists, change complete wire harness.....

SRXSRULE · Feb 5, 2017

Remove gas cap, Insert new sled, reinstall gas cap.

Just kidding

Any chance you own a 4 channel lab scope or can barrow one? I can never bring myself to throw parts at a problem, I always want to diag the problem first. You could ride the sled with the scope on it and watch your primary ignition pattern. This will tell you whats going on inside the cylinder, you can tell if its going rich or if the spark is getting weak. Most scopes have a record or freeze option that would allow you to hit record AFTER the cylinder drops out and then review the data for the previous 2 minutes before it fouled.

I do this kind of testing all the time on customer vehicles. You dont waste hours and dollars and not to mention weeks of testing. You will have your answer in one test drive.

Just wanted to give you another option to diagnose the issue. Eric

Vincenthdfan · Feb 5, 2017

I mentioned this before and realize its kind of a longshot because there are two separate what appear to be "fuel pressure regulators" on the fuel rail.

This kind of makes the odds of both cylinders fouling slim...unless the channels are somehow shared inside the rail?

A failed pressure regulator in an injected system can and will create a rich condition.

I would explore this option and see if it may be causing your issue....couldn't hurt to rule it out?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/11-POLARIS-...ash=item58edfdcd18:g:G~oAAOSwkd5YFUXF&vxp=mtr

Murph · Feb 5, 2017

SRXSRULE said:
Remove gas cap, Insert new sled, reinstall gas cap.

Just kidding

Any chance you own a 4 channel lab scope or can barrow one? I can never bring myself to throw parts at a problem, I always want to diag the problem first. You could ride the sled with the scope on it and watch your primary ignition pattern. This will tell you whats going on inside the cylinder, you can tell if its going rich or if the spark is getting weak. Most scopes have a record or freeze option that would allow you to hit record AFTER the cylinder drops out and then review the data for the previous 2 minutes before it fouled.

I do this kind of testing all the time on customer vehicles. You dont waste hours and dollars and not to mention weeks of testing. You will have your answer in one test drive.

Just wanted to give you another option to diagnose the issue. Eric

As a general rule, I'm not a parts swapper either. Luckily, I own 4 Pro-Ride Pros so the parts swapping is free. I've whittled the list down of possible issues and will soon be through it... so far the customers parts total is $0....

I am, however, seriously considering the gas cap option....

Murph · Feb 5, 2017

Vincenthdfan said:
I mentioned this before and realize its kind of a longshot because there are two separate what appear to be "fuel pressure regulators" on the fuel rail.

This kind of makes the odds of both cylinders fouling slim...unless the channels are somehow shared inside the rail?

A failed pressure regulator in an injected system can and will create a rich condition.

I would explore this option and see if it may be causing your issue....couldn't hurt to rule it out?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/11-POLARIS-...ash=item58edfdcd18:g:G~oAAOSwkd5YFUXF&vxp=mtr

Your suggestion was noted and your theory will be tested if I swap injectors because I will swap fuel rails at the same time....

Merlin · Feb 5, 2017

The components you are referring to are pulsation dampers I believe.

The pressure regulator is located in the tank with the fuel pump.

Vincenthdfan said:
I mentioned this before and realize its kind of a longshot because there are two separate what appear to be "fuel pressure regulators" on the fuel rail.

This kind of makes the odds of both cylinders fouling slim...unless the channels are somehow shared inside the rail?

A failed pressure regulator in an injected system can and will create a rich condition.

I would explore this option and see if it may be causing your issue....couldn't hurt to rule it out?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/11-POLARIS-...ash=item58edfdcd18:g:G~oAAOSwkd5YFUXF&vxp=mtr

Vincenthdfan · Feb 6, 2017

Merlin said:
The components you are referring to are pulsation dampers I believe.

The pressure regulator is located in the tank with the fuel pump.

Sounds reasonable...I know they aren't listed anywhere on parts lists, just know that outwardly they appear just like regulators.

Oh well, worth a shot anyway.

Murph · Feb 6, 2017

swapped injectors-- no change

fuel pressure steady @ 59psi with sled running on track stand

Before it ran hard until it fouled plugs.... now its no longer pulling 8200 and sounds flat as it tries to rev out. RPM peak only 72-7700 (I'll check to make sure I didn't break a primary spring but engagement rpm is normal)

Going to look at the VES system solenoid (will probably plug off for a short test), hoses, bellows, guillotines

Getting near my wits end

Sheetmetalfab · Feb 6, 2017

Murph said:
Your suggestion was noted and your theory will be tested if I swap injectors because I will swap fuel rails at the same time....

We recently had extensive broken wires in an 11 pro wiring harness.
Chasing ghosts.

If you can swap that????

Murph · Feb 6, 2017

Sheetmetalfab said:
We recently had extensive broken wires in an 11 pro wiring harness.
Chasing ghosts.

If you can swap that????

My notes from the Indy Specialties engine install noted stretched wires and general poor condition of wire harness.

I'm running out of components to swap. I do have a good 2011 harness (out of another of my machines) that I can swap out. That will be on the to do list.

I should have bought stock in NGK before this started.

PSI 800 · Feb 6, 2017

My dealer here is having a very similar problem with a 2015 pro stage 3 kit and have tried everything with no luck. they talked to startline and they were saying that down on the crankcase are a couple of 1way oil pressure valves for the crank bearings that they have seen screw up and can cause plug fouling. I Might have the terminology screwed up for the oil valves but I did see them on the crankcase when they showed me. I have not heard if that was the problem as they are closed today but I will ask tomorrow and let you know.

Murph · Feb 6, 2017

Murph said:
RPM peak only 72-7700

Going to look at the VES system solenoid (will probably plug off for a short test), hoses, bellows, guillotines

Getting near my wits end

RPM issue was torn bellow--hooray for clear cut mechanical failures!!!

Still need to solve plug fouling....

FML

Murph · Feb 6, 2017

PSI 800 said:
My dealer here is having a very similar problem with a 2015 pro stage 3 kit and have tried everything with no luck. they talked to startline and they were saying that down on the crankcase are a couple of 1way oil pressure valves for the crank bearings that they have seen screw up and can cause plug fouling. I Might have the terminology screwed up for the oil valves but I did see them on the crankcase when they showed me. I have not heard if that was the problem as they are closed today but I will ask tomorrow and let you know.

Interesting..... haven't come across this one before...

Murph · Feb 8, 2017

Anyone know where the "power capacitor/ filter" is on the wire harness? 2 red wires and 2 brown wires feed it. It's spliced into the fuel pump power junction but it appears to be wrapped up in the harness somewhere. I can find the speedo capacitor/ filter for the hall effect sensor it is fed by or/wh wires, but not the "power capacitor/ filter" just figured I would change it out before swapping entire harness. That mini capacitor is available seperately for $75!!!

I've been feeling through the harness casing looking for a hard spot, but have been unable to find it...

LoudHandle · Feb 8, 2017

Murph said:
Anyone know where the "power capacitor/ filter" is on the wire harness? 2 red wires and 2 brown wires feed it. It's spliced into the fuel pump power junction but it appears to be wrapped up in the harness somewhere. I can find the speedo capacitor/ filter for the hall effect sensor it is fed by or/wh wires, but not the "power capacitor/ filter" just figured I would change it out before swapping entire harness. That mini capacitor is available seperately for $75!!!

I've been feeling through the harness casing looking for a hard spot, but have been unable to find it...

I must have given my '11 harness away when I sold the ECU. I'm pretty sure on the newer harnesses it's in the heat shrinked pouch in the bag on the clutch guard, same bundle as the regulator and chassis relay, etc. guessing on the MY '11 it would be very close to the same spot even with the minor changes between them.

Spaarky · Feb 8, 2017

I have a complete electrical system out of a 12 on my bench... If it could help
Out some way.

Murph · Feb 17, 2017

And the saga continues.....

Swapped out the entire harness. The sled stopped fouling plugs at 2.5-3 mile intervals. Rode 45 flawless trail miles-- all the snow was setup at the time and I just needed to log miles. Re-confirmed oil ratio. 35:1 trail riding and not heavy on throttle. I dialled back the oil screw and rode another 40 miles and confirmed the new oil setting at 50:1 trail riding and partial throttle (expecting it to be around 35:1 normal pow/ mountain riding and heavier throttle) BUT fouled a mag side plug. Replaced plug and sled was back to its ripping ways....

Not sure if it was a fluke or not, I rode another 45 miles.

Noticed that the sled runs hard and great UNTIL it is rolling downhill with the clutches engaged. Closed throttle, downhill, rpm above idle due to clutches being engaged, seems to load up. If the downhill is long enough you can watch the engine temp drop for 107-109 (TRS ski doo thermostat) down to 102. If it drops to 98*, I know that it has fouled the plug. If I can get back on it, it will clear out, if not the plug will need to be swapped out and then it runs fine again.

After wire harness swap, no longer fouls PTO plugs, always MAG side. Could the oil check valve (as suggested above) be hanging open on the MAG side and be pulling too much oil on decel or just the fact that there is no fuel at closed throttle to dilute the oil into a combustible mixture???

As a recap:
Freshly built Indy Specialties short rod/ lightweight (Axys) crank-- 105psi both cylinders @ 6000' confirmed
Components swapped out for known good units
EGT sensor
stator
coils/spark plug leads
injectors
wireharness
Capacitor
load shed relay
voltage regulator
TMAP sensor (ohm tested fine on all legs)

Merlin · Feb 17, 2017

Not that this will be anything definitive in terms of helping you with your troubleshooting but my '11 800 Pro RMK has had issues with a leaking oil check valve(or valves) since I've owned it. So much that when the engine is started after sitting for any length of time I have to phone the fire dept. to tell them to stand down. LOL

The first start of the season is always the worst & the level in the oil tank drops considerably over the summer. Point being that I have not had any plug fouling issues even with the leaking check valve/s, injection pump cranked up, & running a vented cap. :face-icon-small-con

In a decel situation with the throttle at an idle(or close to) position I'm not sure whether oil can be drawn through the oil pump via vacuum?

Murph said:
Could the oil check valve (as suggested above) be hanging open on the MAG side and be pulling too much oil on decel or just the fact that there is no fuel at closed throttle to dilute the oil into a combustible mixture???

BILTIT · Feb 17, 2017

Just some info, i run at 98 temp all the time and it doesnt foul plugs.

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2011 Pro plug fouling machine.

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