Anybody run these on a Twisted kit, what do u think worth the money, benefits, feedback, please elaborate. Thank U . Jeff
Boondocker E timing key or OVS timing key on Twisted Turbo kits
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Most guys like them. You basically get the timing retarded a bit on top so you are able to run lower octane with the same results and it is safer for most.
W
I'm not a fan. top end power loss. Retarded timing means your putting the fire out..You are pushing more air but not maximizing your power... Why not just run lower boost and keep the timing in it? I love to hear guys say... I run 10-13 psi on pump gas with my timing module... I just laugh cause I know you can make the same power on 7-8 psi with no module.... And remember the faster that turbo spins and the more boost you run the more heat it creates.. can you say "reeds"...
I can see where a guy might want this if he is running crappy fuel to just be safe.....but Im not sure why else you would run one.....
I do have a good idea for one of these timing modules I'd like to try but its not what other people are using them for..... I wonder if anyone has tried it yet........
I can see where a guy might want this if he is running crappy fuel to just be safe.....but Im not sure why else you would run one.....
I do have a good idea for one of these timing modules I'd like to try but its not what other people are using them for..... I wonder if anyone has tried it yet........
yup.... for the most part it is about chasing a higher boost number on pump gas.. or thats why i see people running them.
The other way to look at it, is that you can run more advanced timing/ higher compression on the bottom, so that you gain bottom end, and you can simply turn up the boost to make up for the slight top end loss.
Most of the bigger boost setups make stupid power on top, but where I want more is in the bottom... I just see this as a means to accomplishing this.
Just different ways to look at it.
Most of the bigger boost setups make stupid power on top, but where I want more is in the bottom... I just see this as a means to accomplishing this.
Just different ways to look at it.
I'm no mechanic by any means
but it is my understanding, that essentially it allow u to run higher boost with lower octane, i'm running straight 100ll at 10 lbs of boost which wiil give you X amount of horsepower lets say 240 , but if you are running lower octane, say 91 octane at 8 lbs of boost your getting 210hp, they are retarding the timing at higher rpm so you don't get an octane code on the Det sensor, but ultimately you are only able to get so much Hp out of a given octane level and a given boost level which ultimately means you can get more psi of boost on a lower octane, but essentailly you are not gaining any HP just not getting a Det code, Octane is the limiting factor in regards to HP and boost let's just say on pump gas you are limited to about 210 HP to 220 HP, around 8 lbs of boost, on 100 ll you get about 230- 240 hp at about 10lbs of boost and about 260-270 hp on race gas at about 12-13 lbs of boost but ultimately Octane is the controlling factor. for ARGUMENT SAKE I'M REFERRING to a 800 cc motor
but it is my understanding, that essentially it allow u to run higher boost with lower octane, i'm running straight 100ll at 10 lbs of boost which wiil give you X amount of horsepower lets say 240 , but if you are running lower octane, say 91 octane at 8 lbs of boost your getting 210hp, they are retarding the timing at higher rpm so you don't get an octane code on the Det sensor, but ultimately you are only able to get so much Hp out of a given octane level and a given boost level which ultimately means you can get more psi of boost on a lower octane, but essentailly you are not gaining any HP just not getting a Det code, Octane is the limiting factor in regards to HP and boost let's just say on pump gas you are limited to about 210 HP to 220 HP, around 8 lbs of boost, on 100 ll you get about 230- 240 hp at about 10lbs of boost and about 260-270 hp on race gas at about 12-13 lbs of boost but ultimately Octane is the controlling factor. for ARGUMENT SAKE I'M REFERRING to a 800 cc motor
R
I think its also fair to look at what has been done in the past. The older turbo sets didnt use them, nor a new key.
I have a BD one and it will probably get pulled off for a ride to see the differance. I had / have enough problems I never got around to it.
as to your question, they are differant, exactly what BD timing curve uses vs. OVS I cant say
I have a BD one and it will probably get pulled off for a ride to see the differance. I had / have enough problems I never got around to it.
as to your question, they are differant, exactly what BD timing curve uses vs. OVS I cant say
But,
Let's say you've got a sled that runs 91 with 9 lbs of boost & has a 2009 head.
If you were to run a tighter head on it (2010+) then add the E key, so that you could still run 9 lbs (let's assume you were against the det sensor with the 2009 head) but you'd have a better bottom end, and with the tighter head, you should make up for the loss in timing.
The same could be said for guys running a ton of octane, costing them bottom end, if they can drop octane a tad, get crispness back, but still maintain boost level... it's win/win I think.
I don't see how you can make more top end with this, I just think it can help you make the power more linear, more like what we hope for.
Back country i like the way your thinking as i just got a turbom/1000 i'm trying to learn about it and what all i will need to do.
I would love to be able to run 12psi on 100ll
with a timing key, but I don't think I would be gaining anything, the limitations on the motor are 240hp at 10 lbs on 100ll and 260hp at 12lbs on racegas with my Twisted Extreme Turbo -- Garrett-2871-2
with a timing key, but I don't think I would be gaining anything, the limitations on the motor are 240hp at 10 lbs on 100ll and 260hp at 12lbs on racegas with my Twisted Extreme Turbo -- Garrett-2871-2
S
800? Depending on elevation. But at 6-8k with my stock HO head I was running 12lbs fine on 100LL. But I usually running from 4500-7000 so i put turbo cut head half way through season to be safe. Run er from 8-12 all the time depending what in doing.
I'm not a fan. I tried both keys for fun on a race gas kit at 13 lbs at 7500-11k feet running 2 gallons of 110 in my M8. I felt that I lost power from low end to top end. I ran both the OVS and BD timing key's. With both keys I had the little wrench on the speedo come on multiple times. I went back to 4 gallons of race at 13 lbs and the sled was so much better all around.
The lack of performance made me happy to put another 2 gallons of race fuel in my sled each ride and be able to run it at stock timing.
The lack of performance made me happy to put another 2 gallons of race fuel in my sled each ride and be able to run it at stock timing.
can i hijack abit..i have the ported bigbore with a 2.5 degree advance key..91 octane..and i do have the knock code come up if i don;t run my octane boost...2300 ft elevation....
with this turbo talk it sounds like i maybe should remove the key and mix race gas and i would be better off...??
with this turbo talk it sounds like i maybe should remove the key and mix race gas and i would be better off...??
ricks 32 - were u running 91 and 110 mix at 13 lbs or 100ll and race
what turbo kit do u have, what octane mix are u running at that boost level???
what turbo kit do u have, what octane mix are u running at that boost level???
Not to pick on you, but you must have made some other change to have lost bottom end.
The bottom doesn't change, so you did something else. Did you remove too much octane & start hitting det?
I'm not defending my purchase, I don't even have on on my sled, but the reality of what they do is pretty simple, and if you lost bottom end, something else went wrong I'd say.... since the key has ZERO effect on bottom end.
lol this thread makes me laugh... until you can sit on a dyno and replicate runs and adjust your timing and boost and make accurate readings of your changes there is nothing but a bunch of speculation, and apples to oranges comparing things.
something to consider.... if your comparing the same sleds(years) and someone is running X amount of boost on 91 and somone is running more or less without det, the motor and timing are virtually identical. If you are hitting det before the other person there is a reason, your kit is less efficient and your making more heat, poorly designed system, your fueling is off. your clutching sucks, you get the idea.
how about instead of pulling timing to jack up your boost and "make more power" go spend some time learning about how to make the system more efficient and the motor less prone to det. might cost more money.. but in the end your going to have a more efficient kit at all RPM's and boost level. When your the guy running straight 91 and smoking everyone regardless of boost and fuel, looking back on this will make you laugh.
something to consider.... if your comparing the same sleds(years) and someone is running X amount of boost on 91 and somone is running more or less without det, the motor and timing are virtually identical. If you are hitting det before the other person there is a reason, your kit is less efficient and your making more heat, poorly designed system, your fueling is off. your clutching sucks, you get the idea.
how about instead of pulling timing to jack up your boost and "make more power" go spend some time learning about how to make the system more efficient and the motor less prone to det. might cost more money.. but in the end your going to have a more efficient kit at all RPM's and boost level. When your the guy running straight 91 and smoking everyone regardless of boost and fuel, looking back on this will make you laugh.
W
Backcountryislife has the same outlook as me with this.....The only way I would encorporate one the these timing modules into my system would be to advance the timing on the bottom and maybe run a little more compression. The timing module would tame it down a little on the top to bring you back close to stock....I will probably try this approach this season because I spend alot of time boondocking on and off the throttle....
Ski dooin it is also right in that it is hard to say anything works until it has been tested and proven but Im excited to try the idea above and brainstorm with ya all...........
Has anyone done this???????????
I have an 2010 that I had the timing advanced in the ecu on the bottom but then I took a little out of the head.... I'd like to try leaving the squish in it and using one of these modules........Hmmmm?
Ski dooin it is also right in that it is hard to say anything works until it has been tested and proven but Im excited to try the idea above and brainstorm with ya all...........
Has anyone done this???????????
I have an 2010 that I had the timing advanced in the ecu on the bottom but then I took a little out of the head.... I'd like to try leaving the squish in it and using one of these modules........Hmmmm?
These have been tested a bunch, lots of folks were running them last year. BD has had them for a while, and ovs had them at least last season. Talking to OVS, they're honest about the thing, didn't seem to care about selling them, Trav said that you won't gain on top... it doesn't happen. He said the only gain is being able to run less octane to have a crisper bottom, or being able to add compression to the same end.
Wasn't exactly a hard sell... the first 1/2 of the conversation was mostly debunking the idea that you'll gain top end power by running more boost.
Maybe ski-dooin it was asleep last year when these came out & many people started running them, but this is simple stuff. If you don't know what timing does, you're not paying attention. It's not some magic mystery, it's a timing key that is at +-0 at the bottom & goes up to 1,2,or 3 degrees depending on the unit you buy. Also, you can put one of these on & off in about 2 minutes, so testing is easy. Sitting on a dyno is wasted time for something this simple.
Most folks don't build their own turbos, and aren't going to sit there & re-design them to make them more efficient.
so essentially these only have a known benefit for pump gas turbos
it allows you to run extra boost on pump gas without hitting the det sensor, or octane sensor for detonation, if you are running 100ll or race gas there isn't any gains in terms of power or performance
it allows you to run extra boost on pump gas without hitting the det sensor, or octane sensor for detonation, if you are running 100ll or race gas there isn't any gains in terms of power or performance
Even on the PG turbo you're not going to gain power on the top end. It does the same thing no matter what fuel you're running.
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