Help me decide, 450 or 250/300 2stroke

Camstyn · Dec 4, 2017

One thing I’m curious about is the inherent lack of too end with the 72x72mm 300 configuration. I’m aware that there is more horsepower to be found in the big bore but typically they do not rev out like a 250. Is the tradeoff worth it? Or is a breathed on 250 with a strong mid-tomorrow powerband the hot ticket?

Higher compression typically reduces the top end power even more, so how are you guys getting your 300’s to rev out?

capulin overdrive · Dec 4, 2017

Bench racing is fun, and always good to learn. But you may be getting into the over thinking it stage. High comp is for running better fuel, and/or to help with high altitude.

Sheetmetalfab · Dec 4, 2017

capulin overdrive said:
Bench racing is fun, and always good to learn. But you may be getting into the over thinking it stage. High comp is for running better fuel, and/or to help with high altitude.

Bench racing includes saying a bike that doesn’t climb as well as another is “funner” and other such nonsense.

On the big pow days that come, do you wanna be wishing you had more snort? (And knowing you could have had it for the same money) or just skip the “i’m cool because i tapdance on my shifter and go nowhere on the good days” phase and buy the lightest highest horsepower and torque available.........

Done!!!

Seriously my 16sxf450 actually will climb something.
The full mod 300sx i rode was like comparing a 500 fan sled to a 600 Liquid.
The 500 is very slightly lighter but the power difference actually makes the 600 more versatile and maneuverable. (Switchback turns uphill instead of downhill only)

ravenous · Dec 4, 2017

Or if you really want a challenge, forget the 250 and try an 80.Way more fun than those boring 450's.

wwillf01 · Dec 4, 2017

Come on guys real men ride the ktm sx50

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Camstyn · Dec 4, 2017

We’ll see how it works out. I have the bike, I don’t have to try to sell it (ever try selling a used TM? It ain’t easy!) I have the snow kit, and can sell the Suzuki as still new and unused, so killing two birds with one stone.

I’m sure I will get a chance to ride it back to back with 450’s this winter, and if it’s lacking then I’ll be the first to admit it and I’ll go back to my original plan and get a 450 if it’s going to be that much better.

I have an almost new 04 KX500 sitting in the corner if I were really hung up on trying to be king of the mountain but I’d rather ride a modern feeling and better handling bike.

Sheetmetalfab · Dec 4, 2017

Camstyn said:
We’ll see how it works out. I have the bike, I don’t have to try to sell it (ever try selling a used TM? It ain’t easy!) I have the snow kit, and can sell the Suzuki as still new and unused, so killing two birds with one stone.

I’m sure I will get a chance to ride it back to back with 450’s this winter, and if it’s lacking then I’ll be the first to admit it and I’ll go back to my original plan and get a 450 if it’s going to be that much better.

I have an almost new 04 KX500 sitting in the corner if I were really hung up on trying to be king of the mountain but I’d rather ride a modern feeling and better handling bike.

Cool.
I just wanted to make sure a bunch of guys justifying their purchases of 2 stroke bikes and setups didn’t make you sink $7-800 in mods for something you still wouldn’t be happy with. (True story there)
I have both and tried both.

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Camstyn · Dec 5, 2017

Sheetmetalfab said:
Cool.
I just wanted to make sure a bunch of guys justifying their purchases of 2 stroke bikes and setups didn’t make you sink $7-800 in mods for something you still wouldn’t be happy with. (True story there)
I have both and tried both.

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I hear you, I plan on being cautiously optimistic, if it seems like a lost cause I’m not going to burn through a pile of money chasing my tail.

It’s going to cost me a fit kit, pipe guard, intake, carb heater, carb and engine blankets, head mod, thermobob, temp display, air pro and foot pegs. If it ends up falling short of my expectations most of it can be transferred to a 450 or sold.

I did learn that turning it into a 300 the right way is more than just replacing the top end, the center cases and crankshaft are also different.. So this bike will be staying as a 250cc.

ps3dvx · Dec 5, 2017

I’m going to be building a 250 XC snow bike as well

rhino89523 · Dec 5, 2017

I'd build the KX500 into a snowbike and leave the "modern handling" game for your dirtbike. I'm on a CR500 steel framed snowbike. I guess I don't get the handling thing. I get it in the dirt but on snow I don't think it matters much. My old steel frame handles as well with a timbersled Raw kit on it as any of the 2017 KTM's with Yeti kits on them. CR500 worked great and even with my heavy butt on there had no problem hanging. This year we will be on a long track and I think the KTM boys may be in trouble. I just don't understand handling with these snow bikes.

I have heard this ski is better than that ski...I don't get it. I can fly down hard pack trails as fast as a 500 will go in the top of 5th and in the powder you can drag your elbow. For me the whole snowbike game is simply about power much like duning. If they made a bike I felt had more power than a 500 with a similar weight I would buy it. 500 for me all the way no question.

Choice between 250/300 or 450...I'd go 450.

CATSLEDMAN1 · Dec 8, 2017

Camstyn said:
I like doing things the hard way, so I think you guys just helped me make up my mind.. Project 14 TM 250MX snowbike!

My favorite bike to ride just so happens to be my 144. I enjoy having to be all over the thing to get the most out of it. I don’t need the fastest or easist to go fast on bike, I just need one that is capable. Sounds like the 2-stroke is capable, but not ideal for most. That’s right up my alley.

I’ll try riding it stock first, with the Lectron carb and head mods. I assume it will be lacking somewhere and that will make this a fun project. It will be a fire breathing big bore dragon if need be.

you will learn a lot about sno bikes this way. then you will learn that you made a mistake

M5- · Dec 8, 2017

rhino89523 said:
My old steel frame handles as well with a timbersled Raw kit on it as any of the 2017 KTM's with Yeti kits on them. CR500 worked great and even with my heavy butt on there had no problem hanging. This year we will be on a long track and I think the KTM boys may be in trouble. I just don't understand handling with these snow bikes.

I have heard this ski is better than that ski...I don't get it.

My CR500 steelie has always had a long track. In the deep I think the fork rake and the long track work together in your favor. The long front end helps lift the bike onto the snow vs plowing through it. With the LT you will find the added length vs the ST will cause the 500 to plow in some conditions. Enter the Yeti ski. The Yeti ski offers enough bite in soft snow to hold off the LT push. In heavier snow like in the spring the Yeti ski is too much and wants to go straight all the time on the LT so you are back to plowing with a TS ski.

I find tight trees are a biotch in the spring on the 500 and I tire too quickly. Last season I rode an FX with a Camso back to back with my 500 and the handling was night and day better. I found the FX bike itself, well kind of boring and uninspiring compared the pull of the 500 but it was super easy to ride and didn't tire me out. It couldn't make climbs that my 500 did with ease. I'm looking forward to riding MY YZ with the Camso to see how it compares to my 500. I cant bring myself to sell the 500 so if I like the Camso the 500 may end up with a Camso kit as well and maybe a KTM frame conversion. I wold love to build a KTM framed 500 with a short track Yeti SS as the ultimate lightweight ripper but I think 129 is the perfect compromise track length.

250/300 vs 450 My vote would be 450 as well

M5

dieselpower · Dec 8, 2017

Sheetmetalfab said:
Cool.
I just wanted to make sure a bunch of guys justifying their purchases of 2 stroke bikes and setups didn’t make you sink $7-800 in mods for something you still wouldn’t be happy with. (True story there)
I have both and tried both.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm going the exact opposite way.

Moving from a Yz500f to a 2s300.

You aren't giving up anything with the 2s but you are getting more reliability and more fun.

Camstyn · Dec 8, 2017

I just spoke to Camso customer service on the phone to enquire about moving this DTS 129 kit onto my TM motorcycle.. I figured since Yeti has done several of them, and offers a fit kit for them, it wouldn't be too difficult to obtain info on how to do it with the Camso. Unfortunately the gentleman on the phone wasn't of any help, basically said that I'd be on my own to try to make it work. They didn't offer to work with me on coming up with a fit kit for a TM, and I'm not into trying to engineer my own fit kit, so I guess I'm at a bit of a dead end.

Misha Subo · Dec 8, 2017

It shouldn't be that difficult to adapt the bushings and brackets you have to a new swing arm and forks?

RMK935VA · Dec 9, 2017

I love two strokes but I am riding a KTM 450 SXF (converted to a 520 for this season). I agree with most that the 300s are going to be low on power. The new KTM 300 with fuel injection is intriguing but still can't make power like a 450 4 stroke. It also isn't available yet here. A modern FI 500 2 stroke would be cool. Maybe, in time, there will be purpose built 2 stroke snowbikes. That would be cool. Ideally, I would like 100 horsepower in a lightweight package. It could be done.

AZ800 · Dec 10, 2017

I'll pile on I guess. I'm not half the rider I'm sure some of you guys are, and a 450 anything is way more than I can use on dirt, but a track sucks up sooo much more power than a wheel on a hard surface it's not even funny.
And I've never ridden a snowbike at real high altitude yet. 5000' is the max I've had my bike and in heavy wet snow, it won't quite hold 3rd gear uphill.
So the answer, "depends where you ride" is accurate. Ditch banging in Wisconsin, a 250 might do fine.
Add deep snow, inclines and altitude and you couldn't pay me to ride a 250.

To the OP, you have 2, not 1 but 2 ideal snowbike engines in your garage and you're choosing to take the Honda Civic to the drag strip to try to run with muscle cars.

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Help me decide, 450 or 250/300 2stroke

Camstyn

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capulin overdrive

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Sheetmetalfab

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ravenous

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wwillf01

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Camstyn

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Sheetmetalfab

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Camstyn

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ps3dvx

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rhino89523

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M5-

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dieselpower

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Camstyn

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