2010 DRAGON 800 DYNOTEST Stock & PC-5

chumbilly1 · Dec 8, 2009

???

So as we go up in elevation from these sea level tests, does the sled keep the a/f ratio the same? or do higher elevation riders need to set up leaner?
I know the pc5 is the hot setup but can you do the same thing with a attitude controller or does that not provide enough tuning points(throttle position/rpm)? :beer;:beer;

I'LL WIN · Dec 8, 2009

crf118r said:
So if stock is running rich would it be safe to say with SLP single, can and air horn it might be closer to correct a/f at that point?

As others have said "it may not be as simple as that" to get an ideal tune at all points and all RPM. However, I think exaactly what you said is accurate and hence my earlier post. No way my sled should have outrun the Doo unless it made a lot more power than it it supposed to be making with a fat tune. I think the pipe and intake I added made my stock tune a lot closer to ideal than it would be without the SLP parts and hence at sea level it flat ripps.

thefullmonte · Dec 8, 2009

chumbilly1 said:
So as we go up in elevation from these sea level tests, does the sled keep the a/f ratio the same? or do higher elevation riders need to set up leaner?
I know the pc5 is the hot setup but can you do the same thing with a attitude controller or does that not provide enough tuning points(throttle position/rpm)? :beer;:beer;

My understanding is that the stock mapping maintains the same parameters at all times. If it is lean in the mid range it will be lean at sea level as well as 8000ft. I'm not sure what it monitors exactly.

I believe intake temp and pressure to compensate for altitude. I'm sure someone can chime in on this with more knowledge of this system.

Kraven · Dec 8, 2009

A/F and elevation

chumbilly1 said:
So as we go up in elevation from these sea level tests, does the sled keep the a/f ratio the same? or do higher elevation riders need to set up leaner?
I know the pc5 is the hot setup but can you do the same thing with a attitude controller or does that not provide enough tuning points(throttle position/rpm)? :beer;:beer;

Once you include the AUTOTUNE ($250) in addition to the PC-5 ($365.00) those components will always adjust the fuel to the A/F ratio you enter, (12:1 or 12.5:1 is what is currently recommended.) no matter what temperature and/or elevation you're running at.

Plug & Play:face-icon-small-coo

greasemonkey3406 · Dec 8, 2009

Kraven said:
Once you include the AUTOTUNE ($250) in addition to the PC-5 ($365.00) those components will always adjust the fuel to the A/F ratio you enter, (12:1 or 12.5:1 is what is currently recommended.) no matter what temperature and/or elevation you're running at.

Plug & Play:face-icon-small-coo

So if I were to start off making a map for my PC V, could I enter 12:1 for the entire rpm range down as far as say... 5000 rpm. Or would I have to richen it up as I went down in rpm or lean it out?

AndrettiDog · Dec 8, 2009

Here's a screen shot from Power Commander on the PCV:

Auto Tune Configuration:

I'm not sure where the number for the A/F ratio comes from. Surely, someone needs to input this into the map at some point. Then the PCV can maintain that ratio with the Auto Tune (I think...).

Kraven · Dec 8, 2009

PC-5 and AUTOTUNE (2) seperate boxes

greasemonkey3406 said:
So if I were to start off making a map for my PC V, could I enter 12:1 for the entire rpm range down as far as say... 5000 rpm. Or would I have to richen it up as I went down in rpm or lean it out?

Just to clarify:

The PC-5 and AUTOTUNE are (2) seperate units/boxes

1) The PC-5 is a programmable (by inserting +'s and -'s @ various R.P.M.s and throttle positions, let's say -10 @ 8000 r.p.m. would lean out your sled 10% of fuel at only 8000 r.p.m. but at all temps and elevations at that throttle position) that requires a knowledgeable guy (Like DYNOTECH JIM) running the same /similar combo as your sled to first "build" a map and then for you to "tweak" it from there. The program when you open it up on your computer looks like a "spreadsheet with "cells" that you can input the +'s and -'s into. You CANNOT input A/F #'s into a PC-5. The PC-5 will work on your sled WITHOUT the AUTOTUNE.

2) The AUTOTUNE is a seperate "box" that comes with a BOSCH O2 sensor that gets installed into your pipe and the box itself allows you to enter a desired A/F #'s such as 12:1. Afte that the AUTOTUNE AUTOMATICALLY ADDS AND SUBTRACTS FUEL BASED ON O-2 sensor info and the A/F# you selected . Like a mini-dynomometer on your sled, that continues to "build and perfect" a map as you drive down the trail. This eliminates the need for you to "build" a map as the Autotune essentially does that for you. YOU NEED TO HAVE/BUY A PC-5 IN ORDER TO ATTACH/USE THE AUTOTUNE OPTION

You can only input a desired A/F mix ONLY if you have the AUTOTUNE Option piggybacked onto the PC-5

In summary, if you spend the $365.00 for the PC-5 PLUS $250.00 for the AUTOTUNE=$615.00 total+ weld the o-2 fitting into your pipe, set it at 12:1 or 12.5:1 and than it's plug and play!

Just for reference, the FST's w/WEBER motors have the equivalent of the above set-up on their engines since 2006, plus they even have timing management taking into account engine temp, air temp, etc.

Hope this helps

greasemonkey3406 · Dec 8, 2009

I have already recieved my PC V with the autotune. I dont really find the instructions all that informative though. I know that I can put in my desired ratio and the autotune will tune it accordingly. I just noticed that on some of the maps that you can download, the ratio is different at different rpms. I just want to know if everyone else who is using or going to use the autotune will be putting one ratio at all rpms to tune it. Also, what does the screen look like when the autotune has completed a map? Like when I get back from a ride and plug the laptop into it. I know that it will make a trim table with changes that can be made and I can choose to accept them or not. I guess a simpler version would be: what would I have to do to use the autotune to create a map for one of my buddies?

shabs · Dec 8, 2009

wonder if these maps Jim has made work with slp single? or would be just tell customers to add a couple % of fuel up top? i know before the slp made the most power at 12:1 just curious to see the cold wheather dyno numbers for the pipes and heads to see how much they can be leaned out.

Kraven · Dec 8, 2009

Autotune /PC-5 PROGRAMMING

greasemonkey3406 said:
I have already recieved my PC V with the autotune. I dont really find the instructions all that informative though. I know that I can put in my desired ratio and the autotune will tune it accordingly. I just noticed that on some of the maps that you can download, the ratio is different at different rpms. I just want to know if everyone else who is using or going to use the autotune will be putting one ratio at all rpms to tune it. Also, what does the screen look like when the autotune has completed a map? Like when I get back from a ride and plug the laptop into it. I know that it will make a trim table with changes that can be made and I can choose to accept them or not. I guess a simpler version would be: what would I have to do to use the autotune to create a map for one of my buddies?

I would run the A/F at their recommended settings up to full throttle opening.

Personally I would input 12:1 or 12.5:1 near and at 8000 R.P.M. and leave the rest at DynoJet's recommended settings.

After running it for a brief time, it will build it's own map and I believe it stores 2 maps.

Sorry I misunderstood, it's just when you were asking to input A/F #'s into a PC-5 and made no mention of the Autotune, that's all.

You can also call the Tech Line 1-(800) 992-4993 where they're pretty helpful over the phone.

Hope this helps.

Kraven · Dec 8, 2009

greasemonkey3406 said:
So if I were to start off making a map for my PC V, could I enter 12:1 for the entire rpm range down as far as say... 5000 rpm. Or would I have to richen it up as I went down in rpm or lean it out?

I Personally would NOT run it leaner than 12: 1 in the mid-range and lower.

I would run the 12:1 or 12.5:1 (whichever you prefer) in the upper R.P.M. and leave the rest at DynoJet's pre-set recommended setting.

Hope this helps.

greasemonkey3406 · Dec 8, 2009

Do they have these pre set ratios listed on their website? I have a subscription but I cant find it. Are they the ones listed with the dyno sheet for the 800 cfi or would I have to call?

dragonfire · Dec 8, 2009

Air-fuel ratios

Greasemonkey ,I don't know where you will find the exact air-fuel ratios to put in every box on the pc-5. On my wideband o-2 sensors I have been running on my 07-700,08-800,09-800 the numbers that I have seen are roughly 13.8-1 at idle and above 12.9-1 in the midrange and 12-1 above 7000. Theser are rough numbers not gospel. I also have EGTs on these sleds and mostly tune with them because I know that 1250 or higher for an extended period of time is piston failure.I also use an LCD display hooked up to my pc-3s that tells throttle position so if I am at 6300 rpm egts read 1300, throttle position is 14 percent I can go back and enter plus numbers in my pc3 at 10 percent throttle positions. If I thought for one fleeting second that I could just input one or 2 air-fuel ratios all over the board on a new pc5 and make it work I would own 3 pc-5 autotune setups as fast as I could get them. Money is not the holdback, but accurate tuning with this method still escapes me. To you guys that own the pc-5 autotune I would leave the numbers at idle and midrange alone and run 12-1 at 80 and 10 percent throttle positions.Then check your plugs at high rpms and read piston domes ,if all looks good maybe lean down to 12.3-1 or 12.5-1. Remember 15-1 is lean 11-1 is rich .I have found the 800 likes 12-1 at 7750 and above,also your greatest source for Air-Fuel numbers is from a dyno. Get these from Jim or SLP and use these as a baseline and tune from there.Once you estsablish good numbers in the correct throttle positions you hold the key to sucess. I am just passing along what I have learned from my real world Experience and wish you all the best. I just want people to know what they are buying and what it is capable of before you spend money. I have wasted money on things that don't work. This info is from my experience as I don't just make phonecalls and become a keyboard tuner spilling out incorrect data. Pm me with Questions if I can help.

Kraven · Dec 9, 2009

dragonfire said:
Greasemonkey ,I don't know where you will find the exact air-fuel ratios to put in every box on the pc-5. Kraven which is richer 14-1 or 12-1 ?? On my wideband o-2 sensors I have been running on my 07-700,08-800,09-800 the numbers that I have seen are roughly 13.8-1 at idle and above 12.9-1 in the midrange and 12-1 above 7000. Theser are rough numbers not gospel. I also have EGTs on these sleds and mostly tune with them because I know that 1250 or higher for an extended period of time is piston failure.I also use an LCD display hooked up to my pc-3s that tells throttle position so if I am at 6300 rpm egts read 1300, throttle position is 14 percent I can go back and enter plus numbers in my pc3 at 10 percent throttle positions. If I thought for one fleeting second that I could just input one or 2 air-fuel ratios all over the board on a new pc5 and make it work I would own 3 pc-5 autotune setups as fast as I could get them. Money is not the holdback, but accurate tuning with this method still escapes me. To you guys that own the pc-5 autotune I would leave the numbers at idle and midrange alone and run 12-1 at 80 and 10 percent throttle positions.Then check your plugs at high rpms and read piston domes ,if all looks good maybe lean down to 12.3-1 or 12.5-1. Remember 15-1 is lean 11-1 is rich .I have found the 800 likes 12-1 at 7750 and above,also your greatest source for Air-Fuel numbers is from a dyno. Get these from Jim or SLP and use these as a baseline and tune from there.Once you estsablish good numbers in the correct throttle positions you hold the key to sucess. I am just passing along what I have learned from my real world Experience and wish you all the best. I just want people to know what they are buying and what it is capable of before you spend money. I have wasted money on things that don't work. This info is from my experience as I don't just make phonecalls and become a keyboard tuner spilling out incorrect data. Pm me with Questions if I can help.

On the bold & underlined

X2, I thought that's what I posted earlier.

prose · Dec 9, 2009

I might add that the 2009 update kit pulled 152/153 hp out of the box & 158.5 hp with the pc5 at Dyno-tech..............going by memory here guys,so it could be a little one way or the other........cheers

IQ? · Dec 9, 2009

I cant at belive you guys have them running fat?
we have logged over 100 miles now on 5 upd.-09 D8
and well over 150 miles on -10 D8 144"
The -10 is much stronger thou.
But fat? no way with cables connected they are very lean
and plugs are white/Tan brown!
Only trouble we had was cold sleds-have to warm them up properly
(On a stand) When new or they stutter thru lean condition.
or might throw you over the bars when hitting it.
2000feet
0 degrees celcius.
95 Octane (Sweden)
They run really strong all of them But -10 is stronger.
ED

Johanw1978 · Dec 9, 2009

IQ? said:
I cant at belive you guys have them running fat?
we have logged over 100 miles now on 5 upd.-09 D8
and well over 150 miles on -10 D8 144"
The -10 is much stronger thou.
But fat? no way with cables connected they are very lean
and plugs are white/Tan brown!
Only trouble we had was cold sleds-have to warm them up properly
(On a stand) When new or they stutter thru lean condition.
or might throw you over the bars when hitting it.
2000feet
0 degrees celcius.
95 Octane (Sweden)
They run really strong all of them But -10 is stronger.
ED

swedish 95 octane contains 5% ethanol and what shuold make it run leaner whit cables connected for non ethanol fuel.. if you use swedish premiun 98 whitout any ethanol the sled are running richer again

Maby thats the reason why guys i US have a richer fuel mix becuse they use premium non ethanol fuel and cables connected.

maby swedish 95 is a perfekt mix for us in sweden.. becuse the d8 is to rich otherwise in stock mode..

trow in a slp singel and 98 premium is a must then .. i guess

Kraven · Dec 9, 2009

prose said:
I might add that the 2009 update kit pulled 152/153 hp out of the box & 158.5 hp with the pc5 at Dyno-tech..............going by memory here guys,so it could be a little one way or the other........cheers

With that October 19, 2009 test, please keep in mind the extenuating circumstances, it was 50* and they said the E.C.U. fattens up a LOT below 30*

Stock Corrected H.P. was 150.1 actually

Most recent test was in cold weather, E.C.U. apparently "over compensated" and it's down to 144 h.p.

buckshot · Dec 10, 2009

Kraven,
I could not find the latest dyno info on DTR's website? I don't know how polaris could be happy with this...people bought the 800 to have 24 more hp then the 700 not 14. Is polaris going to reprint their clutching charts to reflect the drop in hp EVERYONE is finding? My dealer got a reply from Polaris because of the loss in hp I've experienced and they "reassured" us that there was no change in compression and that there is no drop in HP with the new update???? Yet my sled now required 6gr less weight to pull rpms? I've run a lot of Polaris sleds but this company is starting to pi$$ me off. JUNK JUNK JUNK

F-Bomb · Dec 10, 2009

buckshot...6 grams after the update? Who's working on this buggy? Cooter's Towin, Tars, and Snow"cat" Pirformaaaance? Sumpin ain't right in Mayberry there ANDEEEE!

Maybe get Barney to do some vestigat'in..suggest he looks at the following:

Is there a belt on it?
The manual calls for two spark plugs but make sure Cooter didn't get crossed up and put them in the plastic spare holder! There's been some confusion at certain shops on that one.
Now here is another sumpon to check on...apparantly there is a situation called the Richard Gere condition. This is where a family of field mice crawl up and make a home in your exhaust pipe! Sure can't get no performance if your exhaust pipe is all clogged up. Don't know who this Gere fella is and how he discovered this condition. Can only speculate that he must be a factory trained master tech to have discovered such things!

Seriously dude...find a new dealer!

2010 DRAGON 800 DYNOTEST Stock & PC-5

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