McCall Idaho, Final Chance Meeting for Winter Travel Plan

Wade · Dec 12, 2007

This message is a duplicate of the message on the Idaho page.

We have a chance to voice our concerns with the Payette National Forest Travel Plan. It's a pretty safe bet that we are going to loose riding area, the question is how much. I've heard everything from 7,000 acres to 130,000 acres. The forest supervisor will make the final decision. This lady IS NOT OUR ENEMY. She seems to be open minded, and honestly wants to hear your opinions. We need people to come out and show their support. A big turnout will significantly impress upon her our needs, and our real size and breath.

ISSA put out this notice today. I put out the same notice 3 times over the last month or longer on this website. I put a map in the idaho section. See you all there. Anyone want to ride with me? Wade

On December 14th at 6:00 p.m. at the warming hut at the No Biz trail head, the snowmobile community is hosting a conversation with the Payette National Forest Supervisor, Suzanne Rainville. Your attendance is requested. Our goal is to give her a greater understanding of our issues and of how many people care about the snowmobile decisions she is going to be making after the first of the year. It is going to be a polite and respectful conversation and we need you to participate. So if possible, please come. Christmas will soon be here and there are many in every community that are in need. We would like to help those folks in Donnelly. So when you come to the meeting this Friday, would you please bring some canned or dried foods for the Donnelly Food Bank? Not only will we be helping out others but we will be ensuring that our efforts on Friday will do some good. No matter what the decision is on the Travel Plan; we made winter better for some people.

Thank you and I will see you on Friday night.

Map of what we may loose: Map This map is like 14MB, so download it only if you have a fast connection.
You may notice a lot of your favorite riding areas. Granite, Slab Butte, Lick Creek Road Drainage, Patrick Butte, Hazard Creek, Bear Pete, Marshall Meadow, Big Creek, Crestline South. They are all on the chopping block.

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anchorman · Dec 12, 2007

Wade, I want to thank you for your tireless efforts on the behalf of so many of us that ride. I can't come to the meeting, but I'd like to put my comments in writing and send them to you so that you may deliver them to Ms. Rainville.

Again, thanks Wade. I know it's got to be a thankless job, but I for one really, really appreciate it. Please pm me with your e-mail address.

Ryan

Wade · Dec 12, 2007

I have no idea if she'll take written comments or not. But, I could try.

Sled Idaho (Scott) does all the real work. I just nag people.

Extreme-One · Dec 13, 2007

Getting this back toward the top. I would like to be there Friday night but can not get out of town early enough to make it up there.

I can't believe some of the areas they want to close down. Some of them don't make any sense... The Hazard and Marshal Mtn areas are a long way out there and skiers will never use it. The Lick creek area already has a big part of it closed... why do they need to close more? In some cases it's like they took a marker and just took areas randomly.

If you can make it, please go. I'm still trying to find a way to get my boss out of town early so I can get up there.

XXL · Dec 13, 2007

Oh, I don't even know her but, if she is in the supervisory position with the F.S. these days she has been put in that position to push a leftist-greenie policy. You just don't think she is the enemy because she is very good at her job. The gal that was doing our plan was brought in to hose us, do the plan, and now is gone to somewhere else to hose someone else. The areas they close do not have to make sense to anybody but themselves. F.S.S. (Forest Service Sucks)

Uphill · Dec 13, 2007

Question on meeting location, can you go through Cascade south around the lake, or would you have to go through Donnelly. So by that map, Slabb Butte (wongs bowl) looks like it is on the chopping block. I know everybody rides there, so yes this will impact quite a few riders. As stated above, looks like somebody just started marking off some areas just to close them.:face-icon-small-con So come on sledders lets show up in force. Thank You, Joel Donald

Extreme-One · Dec 13, 2007

Joe... you can come from Cascade and around the west side of the lake. The warming hut / grooming shed that the meeting will be at is on the Donnelly side just north of Tamarack Falls Rd on West Mtn Road at the trail head. It might be quicker staying on 55 to Donnelly unless you live on the West side of the lake and or near Cascade.

idpwdagrl · Dec 13, 2007

I wish I could make it tomorrow night as well - they finally schedule a meeting on a Friday night like i've been *****ing at them to do and it ends up being a night that I can't attend due to other obligations.

Please folks - if you're in the area try to attend this meeting. They need to see us there.

Sled Idaho · Dec 13, 2007

I'll be there. I have room in my truck for one if anyone wants to car pool. I'll be leaving Boise around 3 PM. 860-6057.

Sandra will conduct introductions and some general topics. Then there will be 5-6 short presentations of 5 minutes each, followed by a Q&A session with Ms. Rainville.

What this meeting IS NOT:
This is not a gripe session, a place to complain, a time & place to bash FS personnel, etc. In short we are not here to be negative. We are all pissed about how we are being treated and should have said as much in our comments to the FS last summer. Dickheads will be kicked out. A lot of people have worked way too hard only to have efforts ruined by the obnoxious minority (sound familiar?).

What this meeting IS:
A chance for snowmobilers to communicate the fact that we are not pleased with Alternative E - In a RESPECTFUL and CIVIL MANNER!! We will get no where if the tone of the meeting goes south. Our goal is to prove to Ms. Rainville that we are not the evil doomsdayers that some of her staff members have made us out to be. We want her to come away from this meeting with a positive view and respect for snowmobilers. We owe it to Ms. Rainville, to Ms. Sandra Mitchell, and most of all to ourselves.

Wade · Dec 13, 2007

Wong's Bowl is just north of the Slab Butte closure. A lot of people access Wong's Bowl, and the rest of the ridge, by Slab Butte. It will effect how you ride that whole area. Worst part, it's being closed for Brundage Ski Resort, a private company. They already bought all the land around Brundage, then were handed Granite, but they want more, And, they sent out an email asking their clients to help close areas for wildlife. I guess their Condos they plan to build, won't effect the wildlife, and where it lives. They set a great example of environmental stewardship.

The Hazard, Patrick, Marshall Meadows areas are all being closed for non-existent wildlife. The area that the wildlife hangs out in, is down close to the Salmon River, where no one rides anyway. They could have just drawn a 2 mile corridor around the river, and most people would be happier.

The Big Creek is Wilderness building. They will kill Yellow Pine with that closure.

Thanks Scott.

Sled Idaho · Dec 13, 2007

Wade said:
...

They could have just drawn a 2 mile corridor around the river, and most people would be happier.

...

Wade - If you take a look at those Alt C & Alt E maps, you can see a two-mile buffer along the SF Salmon and a one-mile buffer along the Secesh representing closures. That was the ISSA's proposal for Alt C in MA 12. The FS left them in the maps but did not differentiate the buffers from the other closures they are proposing. There will be a full five-minute report tomorrow night at the meeting.

parking lot poser · Dec 13, 2007

I might check it out. I think all you guys who come up regularily from boise to come up to your cabins early this weekend and do the same. I think the McCall people should come down as well. You cant complain if you dont participate.

If anybody complains after the fact esp. you know what I'm gonna tell you. STFU.

So many sit idly by and do nothing until its gone. But come up all the time expecting their rights to be intact. The world is run by those who show up.

when its closed there is gonna be complaining like there is no tomorrow. At least you can say you tried. And if you dont try. STFU. Get it ? or are you thinking about grass drag season? I've seen it happen on this very forum, 100'000's of acres being closed while the famous thread of the area affected was talking about grass drags. If your wondering who? think area code. boy was that an uproar after the fact. But that was after the fact. During the actual planning process the talk was of mods and grass drags.

Oh I cant wait for the grass drags

sorry for the rant but the lakadazikal attitude never ceases to amaze me.

Wade · Dec 13, 2007

Yha I remember. I was talking about the main Salmon River from Riggins up the river. Along the north of Patrick Butte. They keep saying we needed the areas south of the river for wildlife, when all they really need is a corridor along the river. But, there's never snow down that low anyways, so they wouldn't really accomplish anything by closing that.

Anyway, let me know if no one else needs the ride, I'll ride with you, or I can drive.

Wade

Sled Idaho · Dec 14, 2007

Wade - If you want to meet me at my house at around 3, we can take my truck up. I'll call you this morning with directions.

PLP - If you show up tonight, I will be speaking briefly about Management Area 12. Come introduce yourself. If you are not a SAWS member the link is in my signature. As for your rant, you are preaching to the choir, and we are damn glad to be hearing that.

drmiller100 · Dec 15, 2007

pretty cool to see folks i havne't seen for a while.

honest to gosh, i never realized before how hard, how long, and how much fatrunt has been looking out for us.

from my heart, thank you fatrunt.

suzanne rainville truly seemed to want to help us fix things. she explained quite a few errors in their maps.
she talked quite a bit about the linx crap, and how that affects us.

she was honest in my opinion.

and it sure seems to me like there are a number of opportunities to expand the groomed trails.

again, fatrunt did the legwork years ago. thank you.

Wade · Dec 15, 2007

Yha, Fatrunt has done a lot for us. After looking at the map, he went up on the mountain and took photos of the problems. He also lead the effort to put in at least two parking lots, with help on at least one more. He's also taken a beating in some of those meetings, for his position.

Nice to see everyone.

It was nice to see Suzanne list off most of our concerns, and agree with many of them. Truthfully, I didn't think the forest supervisors actually read our responses. It was obvious that she had read some of them. The no net gain trails issue, needs to be worked out to everyone's satisfaction. I wish some of the things said there were in writing. And, it also sounds like them may split the winter and summer decisions, wish they had done that on the FEIS. Good? or Bad? I don't know.

She explained to me at the end of the meeting that it wasn't useful to compare the different forests within Idaho, and the percentage of them that is closed to snowmobiling. I forgot to tell her that I got the data from a greenie document, complaining about another forest not having enough percentage closed, as compared to the standards set by the Payette. Maybe she'll read this.

sandrailboy · Dec 15, 2007

this might seem to be a dumb question but what can the out of staters do to help ...do they need to be reminded that some people wate all year to take vacations to come ride there ???? its hard to know what to do when you are not there or can't be there to voice a opinion they might not have thought of..........like how does this affect people from out of state........

Wade · Dec 15, 2007

All the comment periods are over, so I don't believe you can't write the forest service and tell them how snowmobiling in the Payette is important to you. Although, you have every right to stop in the forest service and leave a comment on how far you traveled, how much you plan no spending, and your thought. Nothing to do with the winter travel plan, but just a concerned public citizen. Although, we may need funds for a legal fight, if the decision isn't balanced.

There are other ways. Write your congressman, and tell him generally about snowmobiling and forest service direction. Write the Idaho congressmen, and tell them you want to spend money in their state. Join SAWS, join the Blue Ribbon Coalition (Scott must have sent out 10 emails about the Payette, and SAWS is free). Write letters for other forests when requested, when all forests are being defended, the greenies are forced to exert more effort broadly. If you ski while your up here, stop in and talk to the Brundage general manager, and ask him if he supports snowmobiles, because your a skier and a snowmobiler. Tell businesses in McCall that you drove all this way to be here for the snowmobiling. It all adds up.

RMKRIDER · Dec 15, 2007

They don't make it easy for a working person to make a meeting. 6:00 meeting time is a shame. A two hour drive.
That is why I could not make it-

Sled Idaho said:
Dickheads will be kicked out.

-other than I am a dickhead and I refuse to give anybody with the Forest Service ANY respect.
Saved you the trouble Scott!

:beer;

Fatrunt · Dec 15, 2007

Thanks for all the kind words. getting up and speaking in front of a packed house is not that easy. This whole travel plan is a mix of trying to catch the wind and doing fine surgery. you can't do either with a club it takes a light touch on the reins. we gain alot of respect last night. lets see what happens!!
Thank You
The Runt

McCall Idaho, Final Chance Meeting for Winter Travel Plan

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