Boosted Sleds wth Factory ECU boost controli

TurboJim5 · Jun 29, 2011

Guys with aftermarket SC/Turbo Yami's -

I am would like to gauge the interest level of those here with aftermarket boosted sleds to have the factory ECU modified with custom programming which would allow additional sensors, boost tables, etc.

This would provide a more factory running sled that would run well over a wide range of temperatures/elevations without needing adjustment.

The down side would be, at least initially, is that there would be not many user adjustable parameters.

Are most of you guys wanting to have a solution like this or do guys prefer to have adjust ability so they can continually modify their sleds?

tjc · Jun 29, 2011

I am currently looking for a good fueling option for my nytro. But I dont have unlimited funds. I want to make my sled run as good as possible with reliability, acceptable gas mileage, and not have to spend thousands. I dont care if anything is adjustable if it runs good.

bdoe22 · Jun 29, 2011

imo

if it runs good why adjust it??? so basically if the changes you are making to the factory ecu will run flawless at all elevation/temps, there wont be a need for adjustment unless the mods change...dif turbo, shim, fuel, etc.

TurboJim5 · Jun 29, 2011

tjc said:
I am currently looking for a good fueling option for my nytro. But I dont have unlimited funds. I want to make my sled run as good as possible with reliability, acceptable gas mileage, and not have to spend thousands. I dont care if anything is adjustable if it runs good.

We are targeting Haydays for pricing and demo. If all goes as planned, we will have an MPI SC Nytro at Haydays with our ecu mod and no piggyback or any other aftermarket type controller. I can tell you that it will cost less than many other options.

TurboJim5 · Jun 29, 2011

bdoe22 said:
if it runs good why adjust it??? so basically if the changes you are making to the factory ecu will run flawless at all elevation/temps, there wont be a need for adjustment unless the mods change...dif turbo, shim, fuel, etc.

Yes

tjc · Jun 29, 2011

I am interested to see what comes of this. It great that there are so many options coming out.

Prairie Dog · Jun 29, 2011

tjc,

Have you looked at the Boost It system......I have one on my Nytro and it works perfect. Sounds like it would be just what you need.

tjc · Jun 30, 2011

I have, to be honest Boost it and PCV with auto tune are my favorites right now but the option of additional safeties is interesting.

maniac mechanic · Jun 30, 2011

Will you not have to remap the ecu if you add the boost features? I believe that the biggest problem on most aftermarket fuel systems, is mapping? Almost every sled out there has its differences, thus requiring some changes in the mappping. The biggest challenge will be getting the tune right! This is what makes the boost-it system so nice, it is fully tunable by the end user and is simple to tune!
I believe this would be very much the same as a standalone, but more ecinomical. Good luck in your venture

TurboJim5 · Jun 30, 2011

We are tuning to very specific kits only initially. We will be able to do one off stuff, but it will be much more expensive due to the amount of time that would go into those types of projects.

Quantum Velocity said:
Will you not have to remap the ecu if you add the boost features? I believe that the biggest problem on most aftermarket fuel systems, is mapping? Almost every sled out there has its differences, thus requiring some changes in the mappping. The biggest challenge will be getting the tune right! This is what makes the boost-it system so nice, it is fully tunable by the end user and is simple to tune!
I believe this would be very much the same as a standalone, but more ecinomical. Good luck in your venture

supraturbo · Jul 2, 2011

reflash and chip tuning is ok it all depends on who is tuning. also with every changes you need adjustments so you have to send the ecu for reflash/chip andf it is taking weeks(depending on tuner speed) but one thing is for sure mail delay is minimum a week and a half minimum.......just for references, complete plug and play standalone programmable ecus( no wire cutting) will be on the market in sept/octo of 2011,with full online,over the phone customer support and fine tuning over an internet connection of the ecu by manufacturer(no need to send the unit back or to be a professional tuner). yamaha nytro 2008-2012, polaris 800cc,600cc rush/rmk 2011-up, artic cat tz1/m1100 4 stroke and 800cc m-f 2 stroke 2009-up.

roughrider99 · Jul 3, 2011

supraturbo said:
reflash and chip tuning is ok it all depends on who is tuning. also with every changes you need adjustments so you have to send the ecu for reflash/chip andf it is taking weeks(depending on tuner speed) but one thing is for sure mail delay is minimum a week and a half minimum.......just for references, complete plug and play standalone programmable ecus( no wire cutting) will be on the market in sept/octo of 2011,with full online,over the phone customer support and fine tuning over an internet connection of the ecu by manufacturer(no need to send the unit back or to be a professional tuner). yamaha nytro 2008-2012, polaris 800cc,600cc rush/rmk 2011-up, artic cat tz1/m1100 4 stroke and 800cc m-f 2 stroke 2009-up.

Leave your input and opinion here but start your own thread to advertise your product instead of coming here trying to cut down the competition.

OFT Racing · Jul 3, 2011

roughrider99 said:
Leave your input and opinion here but start your own thread to advertise your product instead of coming here trying to cut down the competition.

X2, pretty low.

TRUEBLUEMAX · Jul 4, 2011

I would be interested to see how this works. I am still torn on which kit I would like to do. I know one of the guys from turbo performance and he thinks I should just do a kit on my own. If I did do a setup on my own I would probably be looking at something like this. I don't want to go huge on the setup so the systems like the boost it really aren't geared toward me. I am interested in a low boost kit that retains everything stock on the motor.

roughrider99 · Jul 4, 2011

How is the factory ecu going to sense boost? There must be a second module to record any extra or neccesary parameters? How is the extra fueling going to be accomplished?

TurboJim5 · Jul 5, 2011

roughrider99 said:
How is the factory ecu going to sense boost? There must be a second module to record any extra or neccesary parameters? How is the extra fueling going to be accomplished?

Roughrider,

These are the million dollar questions. We have found that we can put programming and added functionality into the ecu that doesn't exist from the factory. We don't want to give out any more detail than that right now as we are still testing.

The purpose of this thread was to gauge interest level for this type of fueling/timing solution. The testing we have done with other aftermarket solutions has left us wanting a better more factory running sled. We have not tried all of the systems and we are not here to bash anyone elses solution. We have much experience with this type of factory ecu reprogramming in other industries. Our system is going to appeal more to the customer who does not want to mess around with the sled once it is tuned properly. For the customers who want to continually mod their sleds, at least initially, our system may not be the best solution. We may be able to add some user adjustable parameters in the future.

As we get a little closer to Haydays, I will post more information.

Jim

NM · Jul 5, 2011

TurboJim5 said:
Roughrider,

These are the million dollar questions. We have found that we can put programming and added functionality into the ecu that doesn't exist from the factory. We don't want to give out any more detail than that right now as we are still testing.

The purpose of this thread was to gauge interest level for this type of fueling/timing solution. The testing we have done with other aftermarket solutions has left us wanting a better more factory running sled. We have not tried all of the systems and we are not here to bash anyone elses solution. We have much experience with this type of factory ecu reprogramming in other industries. Our system is going to appeal more to the customer who does not want to mess around with the sled once it is tuned properly. For the customers who want to continually mod their sleds, at least initially, our system may not be the best solution. We may be able to add some user adjustable parameters in the future.

As we get a little closer to Haydays, I will post more information.

Jim

Hey Jim, what you are working on is what every turbo owner wants. There is no question that the first company that can offer a complete trouble free standalone system, will dominate the fueling business.
Here is what you will run in to. A snowmobile engine goes through more changes with respect to elevation, temp, humidity, atmospheric pressure, engine load dynamics, RPM, and other things like simply blocking air flow to the intake than any other motorized vehicle on the planet. I think in a flatland application, you have a good chance, but in the mountains, it will be tough.
Like roughrider mentioned, you also need a vac/boost signal, as well as a wideband. You also will have to have a default map when the 02 sensor goes bad.
The other issue is "what happens when the map is wrong"? This is a major issue that other turbo companies have been struggling with for the last couple of years.
Picture the guy that takes 3 days off, has paid all of the money for the sled, turbo kit, gear, gas, truck, trailer, etc, and when he gets to 5000 ft on the hill, the sled won't run with a stocker. You can imagine who he/she is phoning next, and they won't be happy. Then it's build another map, and either do a reburn on the ECU or email the map and hope they can upload on a factory ECU.
Then it starts all over again for the next trip. I would say that whatever you decide to do, make sure and test it, and test it again before you release it for sale. The customer should not have to be the test pilot.

There is a lot to be said for adjustability on the sled. Just my 2 cents.

TurboJim5 · Jul 5, 2011

NM said:
Hey Jim, what you are working on is what every turbo owner wants. There is no question that the first company that can offer a complete trouble free standalone system, will dominate the fueling business.
Here is what you will run in to. A snowmobile engine goes through more changes with respect to elevation, temp, humidity, atmospheric pressure, engine load dynamics, RPM, and other things like simply blocking air flow to the intake than any other motorized vehicle on the planet. I think in a flatland application, you have a good chance, but in the mountains, it will be tough.
Like roughrider mentioned, you also need a vac/boost signal, as well as a wideband. You also will have to have a default map when the 02 sensor goes bad.
The other issue is "what happens when the map is wrong"? This is a major issue that other turbo companies have been struggling with for the last couple of years.
Picture the guy that takes 3 days off, has paid all of the money for the sled, turbo kit, gear, gas, truck, trailer, etc, and when he gets to 5000 ft on the hill, the sled won't run with a stocker. You can imagine who he/she is phoning next, and they won't be happy. Then it's build another map, and either do a reburn on the ECU or email the map and hope they can upload on a factory ECU.
Then it starts all over again for the next trip. I would say that whatever you decide to do, make sure and test it, and test it again before you release it for sale. The customer should not have to be the test pilot.

There is a lot to be said for adjustability on the sled. Just my 2 cents.

Neil,

I appreciate your insight. I agree with you about the duty cycle of a mountain snowmobile. For the reasons you have stated (guy taking off 3 days to ride/midwestern guys taking a week off to come out west, etc) are precisely why we have taken this on.

Also, I agree there is a lot to be said for adjustability, but we think there is a huge # of people out there that would run boost if it were "kick the tires and light the fires easy" as evidenced by Cats 100% sell out of their 1100T for 2012.

Jim

roughrider99 · Jul 5, 2011

Jim
would your setup be geared toward close to stock low boost style kits or is there the possibility of running your setup on those who like to adjust the amount of boost they run on certain days and for those that run built motors with high hp?

TurboJim5 · Jul 5, 2011

roughrider99 said:
Jim
would your setup be geared toward close to stock low boost style kits or is there the possibility of running your setup on those who like to adjust the amount of boost they run on certain days and for those that run built motors with high hp?

Roughrider,

I don't think we are going to be necessarily targeting mostly low boost setups. We are all hp junkies so we will be targeting a broad range of kits.

I can't say anything about adjustable boost right now - too early, but this would obviously be a great thing.

Boosted Sleds wth Factory ECU boost controli

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