Personaly if those are the photos from the dealer I would like to see the reject on them, that is a very warrantable situation. I will lay some cash down that your dealer can re-enter and get that taken care of. It's on a 600 so is it one of the first that were suppose to be replaced and somehow didn't? Also I think maybe we riders need to put the beer and brats down a little and shead some pounds so that mother poo can put a few lbs back on the sled in some of these spots. IMO
SAFETY CONCERN: 2013 Pro A-Arm Failure
- Thread starter winter
- Start date
Look at your bumper to bumper warranty. Does it exclude any items or exclude any item that Polaris may later claim that they tested it?
As I see it... there are two possible scenarios for the failure of this undamaged part.
1) The component failed because of mfg defect in the bonding of the component (It can happen to the best of them)
2) The part had NO mfg. defects but failed through normal use without an collision or obvious damage to the component. This would be an indication that the mfg specifications cannot tolerate normal operation parameters given the methods/materials used the assembly of this component. (I find this HIGHLY doubtful as there are a lot of 2013 PRO owners beating the snot out of them that have no issues)
I've been dealing with engineering solutions and structural bonding systems for over 25 years. IMO, this is a simple case of bond-junction failure and should be covered under warranty.... Production problem... not a design problem.
The photos clearly show that there was no glue residue on the steel tube of the a-arm assembly... look closely and you will see only rust "tracks" where the glue line was and clean separation of the tube from the socket... no bending or kinking of the tube... clean separation and corrosion of a crucial safety feature of the sled.
I would take this to a different dealer and see if they have better communications with the Polaris Factory warranty service representatives.
This issue, which has also shown up in other SWonline readers posts, if it persists could be a major safety issue for the riders of RMK's with bonded a-arm assemblies if the parts were not assembled 100% correctly.
Winter's (Shannon's) Reputation on these forums is impeccable... An honest person that has technical abilitys that would rival the best mechanics out there.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
MH
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1) The component failed because of mfg defect in the bonding of the component (It can happen to the best of them)
2) The part had NO mfg. defects but failed through normal use without an collision or obvious damage to the component. This would be an indication that the mfg specifications cannot tolerate normal operation parameters given the methods/materials used the assembly of this component. (I find this HIGHLY doubtful as there are a lot of 2013 PRO owners beating the snot out of them that have no issues)
I've been dealing with engineering solutions and structural bonding systems for over 25 years. IMO, this is a simple case of bond-junction failure and should be covered under warranty.... Production problem... not a design problem.
The photos clearly show that there was no glue residue on the steel tube of the a-arm assembly... look closely and you will see only rust "tracks" where the glue line was and clean separation of the tube from the socket... no bending or kinking of the tube... clean separation and corrosion of a crucial safety feature of the sled.
I would take this to a different dealer and see if they have better communications with the Polaris Factory warranty service representatives.
This issue, which has also shown up in other SWonline readers posts, if it persists could be a major safety issue for the riders of RMK's with bonded a-arm assemblies if the parts were not assembled 100% correctly.
Winter's (Shannon's) Reputation on these forums is impeccable... An honest person that has technical abilitys that would rival the best mechanics out there.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
MH
.
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J
this happened after hitting a tree on my left ski. not sure if the glue failed or what but the lower a arm front tube had pulled out. The tube seems strait.....but it did twist and almost snap the rear tube where it mounts to the frame. i wonder what would of happened if the glue didnt fail....DAMAGES include: 1 lower a arm, 1 upper arm(had a small ding from shock hitting it), and 1 shock
I apologize in advance for thinking out loud, again. Even the driveshaft had a channel for the glue to develop some thickness too, with contact occuring where the channel did not occur. With the A arms, there does not appear to be any channels to collect glue, nor any raised ridges on the inside of the aluminum connector that can guide the tube in so that maybe a decent thickness of glue can contact the tube end. It looks like a snug tight fit all around, so that any glue that was initially placed in the connector, gets scraped out of the contract area, as the tube is inserted into the connection hole. Also with a snug tight fit, it is impossible for the glue to be injected after assembly of the tube into the connector. In others words, a basic design flaw creating a high likelihood of failure. Whoever designed the ingenious driveshaft, did not continue the same logic in designing the A arm connectors that have only a small fraction of the driveshaft load.
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WITG,
The tube is steel and not "graphite" or carbon fiber.
The adhesive is injected into the holes after insertion of the tube into the socket of the end forging... common practice in assembly with structural adhesives.
IMO... prep or procedure on this particular part was not complete.
I STRONGLY do not feel it is a design flaw... but QC in mfg of this assembly.
MOST owners of 2013 PRO RMK's are NOT having issues with this...but this is a good "heads up" to inspect your sled before each ride as specified in your owners manual.
These are high performance machines... much like a race car... and should be inspected much more than say your average Dodge Caravan or Ford pickup truck.
Have a look at this vid... 2:28 start point.
The tube is steel and not "graphite" or carbon fiber.
The adhesive is injected into the holes after insertion of the tube into the socket of the end forging... common practice in assembly with structural adhesives.
IMO... prep or procedure on this particular part was not complete.
I STRONGLY do not feel it is a design flaw... but QC in mfg of this assembly.
MOST owners of 2013 PRO RMK's are NOT having issues with this...but this is a good "heads up" to inspect your sled before each ride as specified in your owners manual.
These are high performance machines... much like a race car... and should be inspected much more than say your average Dodge Caravan or Ford pickup truck.
Have a look at this vid... 2:28 start point.
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T
Personally I find it ridiculous that they won't warranty it. And it's even more ridiculous that they thought it would be a good idea to glue a arms together. They by far get the Most abuse on a sled.
Sorry for another friend of a friend, but I rode with some guys this past weekend and they have a buddy who wasn't there because he was cruising down the TRAIL when his a arms came unglued and he went over the bars end over end. Needless to say he wasn't a happy camper.
Sorry for another friend of a friend, but I rode with some guys this past weekend and they have a buddy who wasn't there because he was cruising down the TRAIL when his a arms came unglued and he went over the bars end over end. Needless to say he wasn't a happy camper.
D
Would it be wise or even safe to drill and put a stainless steel rivet it each tube for some added piece of mind? I sure it would void warranty, but it seems as if they do not have one anyhow.
winter YOUR DEALER SUCKS !
3 new sleds ! " umm we're extremly sorry sir let me get you a new one sure glad no one was hurt thank you please come again "
3 new sleds ! " umm we're extremly sorry sir let me get you a new one sure glad no one was hurt thank you please come again "
I
Scary! :face-icon-small-fro
Are my eyes deceiving me or are they painting the whole tube and glueing to the paint? So the joint is relying on the strength of the paint adhesion....only as strong as the weakest link. Needs to be bare material, roughed up or knurled, then press fit with adhesive....IMHO. Or better yet just weld some tubes together.:face-icon-small-con
I personally would not drill a hole thru, you will compromise the forging and steel tube. All loads will be transferred thru this small hole and will either elongate or tear the tube or crack out the forging. If done you would need to re-glue the ends and then do the drilling/bolting if it would make you feel better? Best bet is to have fine threads on tube and ID of forging, then weld end fitting in proper direction for mounting. Note, must use glue when threading in for absolutely positive lock! Good luck Mike
Shannon, this is exactly why I bought my new sled from Greg in John Day and made the 2 hour drive. I've heard way to many nightmares about Mike and his dealership here in Bend. That's BS he isn't taking care of you! Good luck and I'm glad you caught it before Ann got hurt. Thanks for the post......
Aaron
Aaron
T
^ I figured it was that dealership, I'm amazed every year that their doors are still open.
Yo... Paul... your eyes are worse than mine!! HA!
Bare steel tube inside the socket... painted outside.
Bare metal... but looks pretty smooth to me.
Good design... bad QC on this particular part... I don't see it as being a design problem... the engineers are smart cookies... mfg of the arms is the question.... first year adhesive use on tubular/press-fit assemblies in the PRO have some hiccups apparently.
.
Bare steel tube inside the socket... painted outside.
Bare metal... but looks pretty smooth to me.
Good design... bad QC on this particular part... I don't see it as being a design problem... the engineers are smart cookies... mfg of the arms is the question.... first year adhesive use on tubular/press-fit assemblies in the PRO have some hiccups apparently.
.
It's a long way from enineering to production IMO.
I sincerely believe in what Scott Ostroski is saying in this vid... The production and QC are off on this sled and need to get "dialed in" better.
I've gotten to know some of the engineers of this sled and have a lot of respect for them...A very skilled team of engineers that have pulled off an amazing sled.
All this sled needs is more consistency in production and it will be hard to beat.
There are just too many people that are having ZERO problems with their 2013 PRO's . Production QC...IMO that is the difference between the "problem children" and the "star players" in the class of 2013.
.
I sincerely believe in what Scott Ostroski is saying in this vid... The production and QC are off on this sled and need to get "dialed in" better.
I've gotten to know some of the engineers of this sled and have a lot of respect for them...A very skilled team of engineers that have pulled off an amazing sled.
All this sled needs is more consistency in production and it will be hard to beat.
There are just too many people that are having ZERO problems with their 2013 PRO's . Production QC...IMO that is the difference between the "problem children" and the "star players" in the class of 2013.
.
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I would agree with others above, press the dealer and or press another dealer. I can honestly say that my dealer would have pursued the issue and if they got no where, probably would have just taken care of it.
There can be a fine between defective and normal wear and tear but all evidence in this case does appear to be defective.
Big brother Polaris, if your reading............................................................................. DO THE RIGHT THING.
There can be a fine between defective and normal wear and tear but all evidence in this case does appear to be defective.
Big brother Polaris, if your reading............................................................................. DO THE RIGHT THING.
Warrenty, should be no questions asked on this one....all I can say is if that had failed and your wife or kid had hit a tree and hurt themselves you would not have to worry about ever having to pay for a sled again, lawyers live for a case like this.
I believe him too, they just aren't getting the job done. They need to quietly warranty ALL of these failures, even if questionable, and come up with the long term solution to prevent future failures, whatever the cause. JMO.
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