HM Turbo Days ---> Thumbs up!!

TurboMatt · Apr 15, 2012

I was able to attend the HM Turbo event on Saturday at Lolo Pass. I have to say that Shane is a stand up guy. I thanked him personally and I again want to say thanks for having us out there. We came out there all the way from Wisconsin, I've never met or talked to him in my life. He was very inviting, he went through and explained all the sleds and let us rip on them as hard and often as we wanted. There was a lot going on but he was able to get around and talk to everyone. I can honestly say that my next turbo kit will be purchased from him.
The biggest thing I was interested in was this whole Vipec standalone deal that has everyone in an uproar on the forums. My honest opinion: I was not impressed enough that I would spend $2500 on it. I think that the expectations are being set way too high. I came to this event expecting to be blown away, I wasn't. I don't want this to take ANYTHING away from HM Turbos, Shane was not the one on here making these huge claims at how great the Vipec is.
The Vipec sleds ran good, just not $2500 good. Please remember that this is just my honest opinion that I took away from this day. I had a blast talking to Shane, Jake from Mild to Wild, and a bunch of other people there in attendance.
Here is a short video of a 3 way drag race that I set up for research purposes:
I'm on the far left on my '11 Silber Pro at 9lbs. of boost, 163" stock track, basic Silber setup(no other add ons)
Shane is in the middle on his personal sled, This is the intercooled setup, 7lbs. of boost, 163" 3" paddle track & Vipec standalone
Jake from Mild to Wild is on the right. It's running a HM Turbo intercooled setup, I believe 9lbs of boost and of course the Vipec.

Oh, one other thing: I discovered 5min after this race that my Primary spring was broken during this race.(that probably made a difference in the outcome I'd think)
Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAXwNadcAF8&feature=youtu.be

TheBreeze · Apr 15, 2012

I would also like to say thanks to Shane Hart, Jake from Mild to Wild, and the rest of the crew. The cut meat sandwiches and home made barbeque sauce was worth the price of asmission! What a day on the hill! It was a great group of guys, and really neat to get to talk face to face with the people building, and testing these systems.

I have also been really interested in the HM kit, and experiencing the fueling with these new standalones. It was really cool to be able to ride the many different setups back to back with other kit/displacement options and your own sled on the same hill, same snow, same elevation etc. situation.

The sled that really impressed me was the N.A. HM Pro with porting, pipe, head, etc. It was a crisp, clean running, impressive sled, and and had wicked throttle response.

If/when I ride a Polaris, HM Turbos will be at the top of my list.

EZmoney · Apr 15, 2012

Sounds like a fun weekend and is cool when a vendor has nothing to hide by letting people jump on a try his product. but on the other hand Matt. i would say your sled runs pretty good if your right there with the owner of HM thinking his sled would be tuned to perfection and jake who claims his sled would beat a BD set up with him running way less boost. With a broken primary spring.

Vi-PEC Powersports · Apr 15, 2012

TurboMatt said:
.
The Vipec sleds ran good, just not $2500 good.
retail at 1995$ not 2500$.....

Oh, one other thing: I discovered 5min after this race that my Primary spring was broken during this race.(that probably made a difference in the outcome I'd think)

:face-icon-small-hap..................

TurboMatt · Apr 15, 2012

PRECISION E.F.I. said:
TurboMatt said:

.
The Vipec sleds ran good, just not $2500 good.
retail at 1995$ not 2500$.....

Oh, one other thing: I discovered 5min after this race that my Primary spring was broken during this race.(that probably made a difference in the outcome I'd think)

:face-icon-small-hap..................

Click to expand...

Jake told me realistically $2500 once all was said and done:
$1995 for just the ecu, then I need to buy a 1:1 fpr, map sensor, boost solenoid(for boost control) & I thought there was something else, but can't remember right now. Is this not true? Does the $1995 you are qouting include everything needed to run my sled?

Vi-PEC Powersports · Apr 15, 2012

EZmoney said:
Sounds like a fun weekend and is cool when a vendor has nothing to hide by letting people jump on a try his product. but on the other hand Matt. i would say your sled runs pretty good if your right there with the owner of HM thinking his sled would be tuned to perfection and jake who claims his sled would beat a BD set up with him running way less boost. With a broken primary spring.

EZ,
you should not based an opinion on a 500ft hill drag race, what makes that ECU soooooo much better than any other controller, is the drivability, the none sputtering/hicking up tune and the famous half, 3/4 throttle BUG impossible to tune with a piggy back. WOT is the most easy part of the tuning(linear air flow), the on and off part is the real deal. there is no doubt what so ever jake's vi-pec hm turbo at 7 lbs would SMOKE a silber at 10 lbs..... any day,any condition,any situation......especialy on a long race( 1 mile for example) i think one sled would come back on a rope..... i am at loading a 15 minute video on youtube as i speak from cooke city and i am inviting you tomorrow to go check that video and get back to me by PM, i want you to tell me if you can do that type of various driving with your sled and hold a steady throttle(at the end of video)on boost for 1.5 mile......even with your new recently installed controller.

this is what this ECU brings you(and a lot more). i have owned ever controller on the planet, including in 1996 boost-it controller (also known as : simple digital system from (racetech) http://www.sdsefi.com/index.html
and believe me, we ain't talking same language here. the piggybacks have their purpose in the market for a certain community, for other it is different.

hope you have a chance to show up for a test drive for A COMPLETE DAY at one of our event next season and can appreciate what this ECU can do for you( not just a 500ft hill drag race).

Vi-PEC Powersports · Apr 15, 2012

TurboMatt said:
PRECISION E.F.I. said:

Jake told me realistically $2500 once all was said and done:
$1995 for just the ecu, then I need to buy a 1:1 fpr, map sensor, boost solenoid(for boost control) & I thought there was something else, but can't remember right now. Is this not true? Does the $1995 you are qouting include everything needed to run my sled?

Click to expand...

DEPENDS.......if you stay with the existing ''design'' of your kit, then you would need a map sensor and ecu. BUT, it is insane not to have a FPR installed on a turbo application(that is why jake told you need one) again if you stick to your turbo manufacturer design, then no you do not have to buy one......but i would not sell you an ECU without a fuel pressure regulator, it is a very big mistake from Justin and that is in part why he is having so much trouble with the tune on is fuel box.the boost solenoid is requiered if you want to have an EBC built(wich is the way to go).....if not wanted then a manual boost controller can be operated. So if i make it short, if you want to correct the design flaws of your kit, then you need this stuff but if you are persisting with what you bought, then no you need ECU and map......see what i mean^

hope to answer correctly your questions....

TurboMatt · Apr 15, 2012

I truly appreciate the passion that you Vipec guys have for your ecu!! The passion shows in your posts and by the way Jake was talking about it at HM Turbo Days. And Precision, I'm sure you think I'm just some random dude on the internet who doesn't know a darn thing about standalones, tuning, riding sleds, whatever. I'm sure you have many many years more experience that I do though, seriously.
Thankyou for clearing things up about the actual price. So basically to equip most anyone else's kit(ie not a HM kit) you need a lot of add on's to make it correct. That's my point, don't hide things. Why would you say $1995 when you know most kits(people) are NOT running a NGK AFX wideband(this in the other requirement, by the way that they didn't mention yet), fpr, map sensor,etc. If I'm gonna spend $1995, I sure as heck am gonna spend an extra $500 to make it "right", no need to hide it.

I understand that a 500ft drag race should not be something to base a purchase off of, everyone knows this. I rode every sled with a Vipec on it at Turbo Days, what I'm saying is: I wasn't that impressed.I took these sleds for multiple runs up this hill, and no I was NOT just holding it wide open. Most of the riding I do is smaller stuff and tree riding. I was brapping these sleds hard going up the hill, even throwing in a little sidehilling. Yeah, they ran decent. My sleds runs decent too. I'm not saying they weren't better, I'm just saying they aren't $2500 better. I think most people can catch my drift when I say that. The way you guys come on here and talk I was supposed to be blown away!!! I can assure you I'm NOT the only one who rode those sleds that day who thought the same way. So either the other turbo sleds I have ridden in the past(including my own) had well tuned piggybacks or the piggyback sleds you have ridden in the past were poorly tuned. Or you are easy to impress OR I am hard to impress. LOL

If a 500ft drag isn't important, why would Jake state in other posts he has made that he would "run em' " 1st he said anything else at 9psi to his sled at 6psi, then he backed it off to boost for boost. I'm assuming by "run em' " he meant a 500ft drag race????

Once again, I appreciate your passion, but lets be realistic.

This is all my opinion after actually riding these sleds at HM Turbo Days. For comparison, I rode sled (Silber Pro) and my buddy's Boonedocker M8 for six days straight in West Yellowstone prior to coming to this event.

R_8_N · Apr 15, 2012

These kits run! Good to see a good turn out on the Turbo days!

I've got a complete intercooled hm kit for a pro with all the clutching ready to run with dobeck box for sale and also a vipec with all the extras to run on a hm kit as well. Pm me if anyone's Intrested.

jsandgren10 · Apr 15, 2012

PRECISION E.F.I. said:
EZ,
you should not based an opinion on a 500ft hill drag race, what makes that ECU soooooo much better than any other controller, is the drivability, the none sputtering/hicking up tune and the famous half, 3/4 throttle BUG impossible to tune with a piggy back. WOT is the most easy part of the tuning(linear air flow), the on and off part is the real deal. there is no doubt what so ever jake's vi-pec hm turbo at 7 lbs would SMOKE a silber at 10 lbs..... any day,any condition,any situation......especialy on a long race( 1 mile for example) i think one sled would come back on a rope..... i am at loading a 15 minute video on youtube as i speak from cooke city and i am inviting you tomorrow to go check that video and get back to me by PM, i want you to tell me if you can do that type of various driving with your sled and hold a steady throttle(at the end of video)on boost for 1.5 mile......even with your new recently installed controller.

this is what this ECU brings you(and a lot more). i have owned ever controller on the planet, including in 1996 boost-it controller (also known as : simple digital system from (racetech) http://www.sdsefi.com/index.html
and believe me, we ain't talking same language here. the piggybacks have their purpose in the market for a certain community, for other it is different.

hope you have a chance to show up for a test drive for A COMPLETE DAY at one of our event next season and can appreciate what this ECU can do for you( not just a 500ft hill drag race).

You sure do get defensive quick by a comment that didn't knock the vipec. You always seem to knock boost it when you have not rode one. And the system you ran in 1996 is not the same as what is being done now. I'm sorry to say that jakes did not smoke either of those sleds in the video and I don't care what the length of it was. Both vipecs ran pretty side by side in the video.

I'm not knocking the system but now that a few people are riding them that aren't affiliated with selling them seems to not be as impressive as it sounds.

I'll also wait for the video and let you know if I can ride my sled the same way.

sleding4life · Apr 15, 2012

jsandgren10 said:
You sure do get defensive quick by a comment that didn't knock the vipec.

It's pretty hard not to, knock a vipec, when the det sensor is disabled!!!

It was alot of fun and I had a great time it is nice to throw out all the internet bull$it aside and see the the real deal. Everyone's stuff ran really well, and nobody's turbo's were perfect. The fastest pro would have to go to a twised kit at 15lbs with a Dobeck box and a 06 Skidoo 1000 RT Aerocharger turbo at 10 lbs with a Dobeck box. Vipec's ace in the hole would be Jake from Mild to Wild I would put his dedication and tuning ability up there with Shane's, the guy never even stopped for lunch just hitting the hill for hour's and that's what it's going to take to be on top, sometimes having a.d.d is a good thing. Looking forward to next year's turbo day's where the bull$hit stops when the throttle drop's!!

Vi-PEC Powersports · Apr 16, 2012

jsandgren10 said:
You sure do get defensive quick by a comment that didn't knock the vipec. You always seem to knock boost it when you have not rode one. And the system you ran in 1996 is not the same as what is being done now. I'm sorry to say that jakes did not smoke either of those sleds in the video and I don't care what the length of it was. Both vipecs ran pretty side by side in the video.

I'm not knocking the system but now that a few people are riding them that aren't affiliated with selling them seems to not be as impressive as it sounds.

I'll also wait for the video and let you know if I can ride my sled the same way.

Sorry if it sounds defensive, i am not going that route at all. i am just stateing we are not speaking the same language when compareing piggybacks with standalone and i am not knocking on boost-it at all, i have owned a SDS piggyback in the past and it as serve me ok.....but not even close to a good standalone(any brand.....Vi-pec,Motec,halthech ect..).If you feel you can get the same results with piggyback then there is not much i can do.when you say it is not as impressive as it sounds, maybe you think we are trying to make it sound impressive but that ain`t the case .....it is just another standalone ECU ......like every factory is using when the build their motorized vehicule....but we give you a full motorsports software containing a lot of special feature. hope this clarify.

Vi-PEC Powersports · Apr 16, 2012

TurboMatt said:
I truly appreciate the passion that you Vipec guys have for your ecu!! The passion shows in your posts and by the way Jake was talking about it at HM Turbo Days. And Precision, I'm sure you think I'm just some random dude on the internet who doesn't know a darn thing about standalones, tuning, riding sleds, whatever.
command man, you are too quick jumping on your guns.....i have never said that.
I'm sure you have many many years more experience that I do though, seriously.
Thankyou for clearing things up about the actual price. So basically to equip most anyone else's kit(ie not a HM kit) you need a lot of add on's to make it correct. That's my point, don't hide things. Why would you say $1995 when you know most kits(people) are NOT running a NGK AFX wideband
not needed on HM turbo, for other kit if you want to tune correctly it is requiered, but with the other kits, aren`t you receiving a wideband?? i thought yes.
fpr, map sensor,etc. If I'm gonna spend $1995, I sure as heck am gonna spend an extra $500 to make it "right", no need to hide it.
:face-icon-small-sho tried to hide??? if you want to correctly tune a turbo appplication you need a fpr....if you don`t want one it is ok .....but you are going to chase your tail when tuning it!!

I understand that a 500ft drag race should not be something to base a purchase off of, everyone knows this. I rode every sled with a Vipec on it at Turbo Days, what I'm saying is: I wasn't that impressed.
this means we were a bit?? (joking)
I took these sleds for multiple runs up this hill, and no I was NOT just holding it wide open. Most of the riding I do is smaller stuff and tree riding.
Good!! just like me and 100 people i am riding with in my area.
I was brapping these sleds hard going up the hill, even throwing in a little sidehilling. Yeah, they ran decent.
thumbs up to hm team.
My sleds runs decent too. I'm not saying they weren't better, I'm just saying they aren't $2500 better.
i respect your opinion.
I think most people can catch my drift when I say that. The way you guys come on here and talk I was supposed to be blown away!!! I can assure you I'm NOT the only one who rode those sleds that day who thought the same way.
i will take your words on this.
So either the other turbo sleds I have ridden in the past(including my own) had well tuned piggybacks or the piggyback sleds you have ridden in the past were poorly tuned.
i realy think i can properly tune my stuff.
Or you are easy to impress OR I am hard to impress. LOL
well..

If a 500ft drag isn't important, why would Jake state in other posts he has made that he would "run em' " 1st he said anything else at 9psi to his sled at 6psi, then he backed it off to boost for boost. I'm assuming by "run em' " he meant a 500ft drag race????
if you don`t mind, i will let Jake words in his mouth.

Once again, I appreciate your passion, but lets be realistic.
i am very realistic......very very very.

This is all my opinion after actually riding these sleds at HM Turbo Days. For comparison, I rode sled (Silber Pro) and my buddy's Boonedocker M8 for six days straight in West Yellowstone prior to coming to this event.
none of them had hick-ups,hesitations,did you need to play with your + and - on dobeck, re-calibrate in elevation changes?? you know when i came back from 12000ft elevation to sea level i just threw in 87 grams in the primary and i was all set nothing more than that....that is one think i like about standalone.

Vi-PEC Powersports · Apr 16, 2012

sleding4life said:
jsandgren10 said:

You sure do get defensive quick by a comment that didn't knock the vipec.

It's pretty hard not to, knock a vipec, when the det sensor is disabled!!!

It was alot of fun and I had a great time it is nice to throw out all the internet bull$it aside and see the the real deal. Everyone's stuff ran really well, and nobody's turbo's were perfect. The fastest pro would have to go to a twised kit at 15lbs with a Dobeck box and a 06 Skidoo 1000 RT Aerocharger turbo at 10 lbs with a Dobeck box. Vipec's ace in the hole would be Jake from Mild to Wild I would put his dedication and tuning ability up there with Shane's, the guy never even stopped for lunch just hitting the hill for hour's and that's what it's going to take to be on top, sometimes having a.d.d is a good thing. Looking forward to next year's turbo day's where the bull$hit stops when the throttle drop's!!

Click to expand...

wasn`t the 16 lbs twisted defeated by a 8 lbs hm ?? if it ever means something anyway(not in my books!).
about the knock sensor, it is not enabled, while tuning we don't need it activated.....for guys like hm turbo the knock sensor will be enabled with a very interesting feature also(self learning knock light with buffer right on the dash!!)

Vi-PEC Powersports · Apr 16, 2012

drivability after shane destroyed what i call realy big chutes in cooke. please watch the 13:00 minutes to the end.

snow4shover · Apr 16, 2012

I like the video it shows that while cruising you can easily see 14-16 afr on an AFR gauge.

You know the #1 complain I get about our controllers on Pros is a lean cruise at 15-17 afr, but most of the people are using Innovate or AEM. Here is a little tit bit of info for you that you might find useful.

AFR Wideband Gauge Error:
AEM: .3-.4 Leaner - so if you target 12.8 on an AEM you are actually running 12.4-12.5
Innovate: .2-.3 Leaner - so if you target 12.8 on an AEM you are actually running 12.5-12.6
AFX: .1-.2 Richer - so if you target 12.8 on an AEM you are actually running 12.9-13.0

These were all tested using Test Gas from Infrared Industries(they make gas analyzers). The Gas is in a pressured tank and is set to a specific AFR.

EZmoney · Apr 16, 2012

Gino I ment no disrespect. Your product is good and will only improve. Matt's sled ran with those guys so say what you want on beating this or that on a longer pull. He claims he had a broken spring and that would effect the sled and you would agree.Matt is another guy off the street not a turbo builder or a tunning guru like the guys he was racing. So in my books he did well. Jake has said on the forum that he would smoke a guy with a bd kit with less boost running the vipec. I called him on that in that thread and this video proves I'm right. Not saying vipec is bad just people were fed a line of bull $&@ on how it will make way more power than the rest. Your video shows they can run clean with the vipec and I think it's great.

2XM3 · Apr 16, 2012

Good points Turbo matt....it's a shame I had to be out of town and could not make it up there...:face-icon-small-sad
Fact is you are correct, I still run the dobeck box, and with my clutching the sled has in fact no issues with fueling, totally smooth throughout the entire rpm range and ZERO issues with lean spots. Also great bottom end, yes it took quite some time to get everything dialed in, but thats how it always is.
The uphill race was very interesting, and if I had known there was going to be comparason hillclimbs I would have sent my sled up with a friend. (along with my n/a mod sled...:face-icon-small-win)
Everyone just has to make there own decision about what fuel control/system they want to run.
You can bet If I was not pleased with my dobeck box I would have went to vipec or some other type, but fact is my box works perfect for me. :face-icon-small-hap

And also another point, if 2 identical sleds are both running the same boost at the same a/f ratio, they will if FACT make the SAME power at the same given rpm point on the dyno.....PERIOD.(not to say one system will not work better for ALL points on the curve) Be it piggyback,vipec,motec,bosch,boondocker,polaris race,dobeck,boost-it or jimbo's deluxe fuel injection from bucksnort Kentucky.

TheBreeze · Apr 16, 2012

2XM3 - We were surprised to not see you there (and were hoping you would be!). I though for sure the Red Porsche Silber Turbo would be in attendance! It was a really fun event, with a lot of impressive sleds. I wish we did not have to leave early to head back to Wisconsin, but the trip to Lolo Pass was really worth it to try out, and compare these setups. HM really does some neat things with their setups, and the quality, fit, and ingenuity of his sleds are really impressive.

It was also really cool to see some of the old school big tripples ripping up the hill. That Skidoo 809 that was out there really hauled the mail for a N.A. sled!

2XM3 · Apr 16, 2012

Thanks, I was planning on going but had a last minute deal that I had to see through pop up...:face-icon-small-sad just one of those things, and buisness comes first.

HM Turbo Days ---> Thumbs up!!

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