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philsummers21
12-24-2012, 06:35 PM
Looking for some updates on what everyones final clutching is to there turbod Pros. Currently running the following setup at 8-10000 ft. 10# of boost. runs about 8100 rpms, kind of sluggish off bottom and secondary is getting hotter then id like. Setup has to be close as it runs pretty good and doesnt blow belts.

2011 Pro 163 12 Boondocker kit

20/42 Gearing

Primary:
10-70
Almond spring (165-325)

Secondary:
40-46 .36
Black/Orange (180-280)

philsummers21
12-25-2012, 11:58 AM
I guess everyone is celebrating christmas or doesnt want to share setups.

Thinking about trying to gear down to a 19/42 or 19/43 see if it helps make the sled more snappy off the bottom.

Also may order a new helix 40-48 .40 and 40-50 .40 along with some rooster adjustable weights.

die hard poo
12-25-2012, 12:11 PM
Looking for some updates on what everyones final clutching is to there turbod Pros. Currently running the following setup at 8-10000 ft. 10# of boost. runs about 8100 rpms, kind of sluggish off bottom and secondary is getting hotter then id like. Setup has to be close as it runs pretty good and doesnt blow belts.

2011 Pro 163 12 Boondocker kit

20/42 Gearing

Primary:
10-70
Almond spring (165-325)

Secondary:
40-46 .36
Black/Orange (180-280)

Here is my set up:
2012 silber kit with boost it fuel controller
7# of boost at 0-3000ft
Current engagement 4200rpm, 8150rpm peak

Clutching:
Team Pink (180/320) primary spring
78g Rooster weights loaded: 2g heel, 5.5g at mid and tip

Orange/black (180/280) Sec spring
42/46/.36 Helix

This seems to be pretty good, but I ordered an EPI pink (185/300)
primary spring to let me run less weight and get my engagement slightly higher. I noticed if you get the engagement too low(below 4000rpm), it lugs the motor too bad and makes it feel very sluggish. I am shooting for 4500rpm engagement to get that snappyness back off engagement like a stock sled. If this spring doesn't allow me to get my engagement higher, I will use the spring washers to increase the engagement some...
Hope this helps! Loving the boost tho!

philsummers21
12-25-2012, 02:48 PM
Yeah i actually thought about trying to raise my engagement a bit as well to see how that works. Little different clutching thinking from naturally aspirated to turbos.

Vertical Asshauler
12-25-2012, 02:57 PM
SLP pink spring will really wake it up. Pretty well as soon as your at engagement boost is on.

philsummers21
12-25-2012, 08:29 PM
Well ordered a 19t top gear, a SW h5 180-300 spring and some glide washers. Will report back

CHAZWILDMAN
12-25-2012, 09:55 PM
SLP pink spring will really wake it up. Pretty well as soon as your at engagement boost is on.

Which Pink spring are you referring to?

philsummers21
12-25-2012, 11:26 PM
I couldnt find a slp pink either. Think hes refering to the team pink 180-320

2XM3
12-26-2012, 07:20 AM
silber @ 10 psi

155/300 speedwerks H5 primary
76.5 gr roosters , all in the tip
40 50 .4 team helix
145/310 secondary with 2 delrins

@ 7500 ft 8250 pretty good on the bottom as well

Team tied next step

note : the more angle your helix is on top (50) the more pressure you MUST run on the secondary spring to stop belt from slipping under load :face-icon-small-sad...watch belt temps when uppin helix angles, I'd like to go 40 52 and see if i could get it to hold :face-icon-small-dis:face-icon-small-win...the more helix angle on top the less weight you can run,:face-icon-small-sho the less weight the more snappy the bottom will be :face-icon-small-hap its a fine balancing act..:yo:

Vertical Asshauler
12-26-2012, 08:14 AM
I couldnt find a slp pink either. Think hes refering to the team pink 180-320

Sorry I ment to say its from team and yes its the 180-320.

philsummers21
12-26-2012, 11:01 AM
Yeah. Pretty sure im going to try a 40-50 .40 helix. Question that gets me is im running 10-70 weights. Most ive seen are running 75-78grams. With my setup im running only 8200 @ 11# at 10000.
Ordered a sw 175-305 and a 180-300.
Probably get a set of rooster weights coming

2XM3
12-26-2012, 11:52 AM
umm kind of interesting there,I had 74 in mine and with 9 psi at 7000 ft pegged rev limit at 8400 ish...but then again i had the rooster weights not the 10 series, and 10000 is gettin up there for sure.

philsummers21
12-26-2012, 12:31 PM
Rooster weights are the same profile as the 10s. Course if your @ 9# @ 7000 your making more hp then i am with 11# @ 10000. Planning on clutching for around 12# around 10k.

jked
12-26-2012, 10:19 PM
I have a 2011 boondocker pro 162 running 8# and am running :
Almond/red 165/310
Polaris 10/68 weights
Stock gearing
I will have to check and report back on helix and secondary spring
Running at 8-11k and hitting 8100 rpm max

Feels like stock on bottom end very responsive I am thinking I may grind clutch weights down to 67 or get a 165/320
Spring to get the rpms up o. Top a bit other than that it runs spot on. I am interested to see how the gear down does for you.

CHAZWILDMAN
12-26-2012, 10:30 PM
SLP pink spring will really wake it up. Pretty well as soon as your at engagement boost is on.

What is your elevation that you are running this spring?

whittaker727
12-27-2012, 10:43 AM
silber @ 10 psi

155/300 speedwerks H5 primary
76.5 gr roosters , all in the tip
40 50 .4 team helix
145/310 secondary with 2 delrins

@ 7500 ft 8250 pretty good on the bottom as well

Team tied next step

note : the more angle your helix is on top (50) the more pressure you MUST run on the secondary spring to stop belt from slipping under load :face-icon-small-sad...watch belt temps when uppin helix angles, I'd like to go 40 52 and see if i could get it to hold :face-icon-small-dis:face-icon-small-win...the more helix angle on top the less weight you can run,:face-icon-small-sho the less weight the more snappy the bottom will be :face-icon-small-hap its a fine balancing act..:yo:

As per your recomondations Bill,

I too am running a 40-50 .40 or 40-48 .40
140/300 Titanium secondary

MDS turbo weights 74.4 gr loaded in the tip and the middle with a black/green pirmary

7 tooth drivers, 3" track 19/43 gears and I LOVE it! Super cool belt temps and awesome up and back shift. 300 miles of smiles now :bounce:

allblowdup
12-27-2012, 11:26 AM
This has been working great for me this year @ 3000 ft.
Titanium 165-270 pri
10-70
helix straight 50
sec 180-280
9lbs 8200
engagement 4100

philsummers21
12-27-2012, 01:32 PM
Sounds like i need to go ahead and order a 40-50 .40 helix and secondary spring

2XM3
12-27-2012, 01:36 PM
team still has the titanium secondary springs in stock, you will need the special delrin too if ya go with the titanium spring :face-icon-small-coo

philsummers21
12-30-2012, 10:57 AM
So where are you guys getting the 40-50 .40 helixs made?

2XM3
12-30-2012, 01:49 PM
Team has them, they will make anything you want....probably stock the 40/50 its gettin really popular.


http://teamaftermarket.com/parts-catalog/snowmobile/all-brands/clutch-tunign-components/

philsummers21
12-30-2012, 01:58 PM
thanks. i have an email into them about getting a 40-50 and a 40-48.

die hard poo
01-01-2013, 12:56 AM
Ok so here is an update from my last post:
Tried lower my weights to get my rpm up so I am running now:
74.5g weights, Heel empty, mid 4g, tip 5.5g
Team pink (180/320)
Increased boost to 10# (way fun, no det with 100ll with a splash of 90, 2000 ft, PAR 12.5 head)
42/46/.36 Helix
orange/black spring 180/280

Engagement 4500 rpm
Peak under high load 8100-8200rpm
but under light load it over tacks

I did blow a belt after 200 HARD miles in chest deep and mash potato snow. My secondary was much hotter than my primary, would that 40/50 helix help get my rpm more consistent? Or should I try a stiffer sec spring? I would like to get my rpm to be similar in both chest deep snow and on hard pack. I know it will pull a couple more rpm on hard pack, but I am seeing more like 4-600 more... Thanks for the help!

philsummers21
01-01-2013, 09:43 AM
Whats everyone getting for track speed? before i was getting 58mph with a 162 Peak.

dyllaboy
01-01-2013, 12:56 PM
There are a few different ways to make the belts run longer. First off I would try either adding more weight or lowering your boost because even under load you will be spiking rpm sometimes. From just looking at the stock gauge you can't see how much your rpm spikes unless you do a rpm recording and then watching the playback. This is a nice feature the stock gauge has. I am at roughly the same elevation and I'm running the 7psi waste gate with 78.5g of weight loaded in the heel and the orange primary spring. At 75.5g of weight I was over revving at 8600rpm and hitting set light. My belt was also blowing through my secondary clutch and leaving burnt belt on the secondary clutch sheaves. So I would lower boost and add weight and when you hit the deep powder just add some more boost until your rpms are right.

Ok so here is an update from my last post:
Tried lower my weights to get my rpm up so I am running now:
74.5g weights, Heel empty, mid 4g, tip 5.5g
Team pink (180/320)
Increased boost to 10# (way fun, no det with 100ll with a splash of 90, 2000 ft, PAR 12.5 head)
42/46/.36 Helix
orange/black spring 180/280

Engagement 4500 rpm
Peak under high load 8100-8200rpm
but under light load it over tacks

I did blow a belt after 200 HARD miles in chest deep and mash potato snow. My secondary was much hotter than my primary, would that 40/50 helix help get my rpm more consistent? Or should I try a stiffer sec spring? I would like to get my rpm to be similar in both chest deep snow and on hard pack. I know it will pull a couple more rpm on hard pack, but I am seeing more like 4-600 more... Thanks for the help!

2XM3
01-01-2013, 02:29 PM
Ok so here is an update from my last post:
Tried lower my weights to get my rpm up so I am running now:
74.5g weights, Heel empty, mid 4g, tip 5.5g
Team pink (180/320)
Increased boost to 10# (way fun, no det with 100ll with a splash of 90, 2000 ft, PAR 12.5 head)
42/46/.36 Helix
orange/black spring 180/280

Engagement 4500 rpm
Peak under high load 8100-8200rpm
but under light load it over tacks

I did blow a belt after 200 HARD miles in chest deep and mash potato snow. My secondary was much hotter than my primary, would that 40/50 helix help get my rpm more consistent? Or should I try a stiffer sec spring? I would like to get my rpm to be similar in both chest deep snow and on hard pack. I know it will pull a couple more rpm on hard pack, but I am seeing more like 4-600 more... Thanks for the help!

300 pound or more secondary spring, you need as much side pressure on the belt as possible to keep from slipping....and remember the more angle in the helix the more spring you will need, ie the 50* requires more spring(easier to walk throught it=more spring) and less weight in the primary... we want less primary weight to make the sled have better bottom end responce, but with this comes the need for more split in the secondary spring, ie the 140 ish bottom pressure to allow the motor to get rpm quicker....its a fine balancing act and you have to decide for yourself what you like best, there are many ways to set clutches up and each thing you change changes everyother thing. And the set for 10-12 pounds is not the best for 6 pounds ect ect ect.


oh and 400-600 is no big deal from hard pack to cheat deep powder...you never going to get that the same...on hardpack at 10 psi ill slam the rev limiter all day long if I clutch for 8400 in the soft stuff.

philsummers21
01-01-2013, 05:49 PM
Where did you find the 145-310 secondary spring 2xm?

2XM3
01-01-2013, 06:57 PM
here the one i've got in there now , same 310 measured but 167 start

http://teamaftermarket.com/parts-catalog/product/titanium-spring-lh-wound-160-300-yellow-black-930700-010


I do use this one as well its true measured pressure is 145-310 with the delrins

http://teamaftermarket.com/parts-catalog/product/titanium-spring-lh-wound-140-300-yellow-orange-930700-009

Its a toss up :face-icon-small-dis:face-icon-small-dis:face-icon-small-dis

philsummers21
01-01-2013, 08:19 PM
Thanks. Now do you have to run the larger spring cup with the titanium springs as well? and 1 or 2 titanium delrins

2XM3
01-01-2013, 09:07 PM
just the titanium delrins, I never changed the spring cup.

machineman
01-01-2013, 11:38 PM
Heres my set up. 2011 silber 10# @ 4500-5000 ft 163 peak

Team gold primary 180-345
Engagement about 4000 rpm
76.5 gram roosters 3.5 in heel 7 middle 4 tip
Black orange 180-280
40-48 .36 helix
holds 8150- 8200

Bottom end is soft and back shift is a little slow. Turbo seems a little "pipey"
If I change to a 50* helix go to a black lime 180-300 and lighten the primary
weight ( remove from heel ) do you think that it will help by slightly increasing the engagement as well as improve bottom end aand speed the backshift.

I have 2 other pros 163 with 64 bb weights slp pipe can and head. 155 assault 66 bb weights and a can. These sled rock. The bottom end is way better, backshift better, They are way more fun to ride. I'm almost at the point to bail on the turbo. The extra power is almost not worth what you give up. I think a carls 900 or a par 910 is the ticket.
MM

2XM3
01-02-2013, 06:54 AM
UMMM boy I dont think going to the 50 would change that much at all for you, Ive never run that much initial primary spring, but you would think it would backshift "right now" with that much spring on both ends. Perhaps try a higher rate secondary spring, 300 or more, in theory it should help backshift more before buying another helix. Id also try as much weight as possible in the tip and middle.
You could also go to the 19-43 gear that would help the bottom as well. Also remember the more boost you run the worse the clutching issues become, ie more weight ect to hold the power on boost = worse low end.

And yes the perfect sled for low end would be the 900 or 910 deal, my mod sled (slp race 903, 200 hp) will leave the turbo for dead on the bottom. Just the nature of the beast.

machineman
01-02-2013, 02:07 PM
Gearing is 19-42. I forgot to mention that I just moved 3.5 gr from tip to heel (first trip this season) and it seemed to be worse last ride than last year with the weight at the tip.
I will go to my black lime 180-300 and leave the 48 helix. What start angle 40-48 or 44-48
MM

2XM3
01-02-2013, 05:40 PM
40-48

philsummers21
01-06-2013, 05:50 PM
Heres my update.

11# 9000ft 8100 on climbs 8300 on the trail

MDS Turbo Weights 74.1 gram
Black/green 120-340
clutch engagement was around 4200

Orange/black 180-280
40-46 .36

19/42 gearing

Went with the black/green per MDS recomendation. LOVE the Turbo weights. thing pulls so much harder. With this setup my secondary is warm at most. barely feel any heat at at all and this was after about 5 hard pulls. primary is luke warm. Bottom end snap seems to be about the same but the on/off throttle was sluggish. Would bog before it picked up. Thinking about trying the 42-48 .36 side of my helix. I also have a 175-305 spring i might throw in and try to run like 72 grams. I also have a 43 tooth bottom gear coming.

whittaker727
01-06-2013, 07:48 PM
I think you'll like the 42-48. I was reving similar to you and took the solid bolt out of the middle of the weight and left the one in the tip. Spot on 8300 every climb now. One step and one change at a time to see what makes what change and see what you like and what you don't.

philsummers21
01-06-2013, 08:35 PM
Yah i learned awhile ago to make 1 change at a time. I took my other springs and stuff on the hill today with plans on adjusting and trying on the hill but my kids had other plans. Made me ride some trails

machineman
01-06-2013, 08:59 PM
my update
11 Sliber
10 # @ 6000'
Gold primary 180-345
76gr moved 3 gr from heel to tip ( 62g, 7g middle 7g tip)
40 48 .36
Black lime 180-300 3 delrins 2 on spring 1 under cup
19-42 gears

Engagement still 4000. Back shift better, still tad slow for me. Tached 7950-8100 at elevation. Was experiencing a slight bog on throttle stabs thus making the bottom soft. Took the yellow all the way to #1 and raised the Yellow-blue to 6 and it ran real crisp. This helped the feel of the bottom a bunch.
I am thinking of pulling 2 grams out (where?) maybe 1 middle 1 tip. Hoping to pick up the rpm a bit, maybe raise the engagement and help the back shift. I am about maxed out on springs so may be running out of ideas.
MM

Catmydoo
01-09-2013, 07:32 PM
What kind of track speed are you guys seeing?

die hard poo
01-09-2013, 07:38 PM
my update
11 Sliber
10 # @ 6000'
Gold primary 180-345
76gr moved 3 gr from heel to tip ( 62g, 7g middle 7g tip)
40 48 .36
Black lime 180-300 3 delrins 2 on spring 1 under cup
19-42 gears

Engagement still 4000. Back shift better, still tad slow for me. Tached 7950-8100 at elevation. Was experiencing a slight bog on throttle stabs thus making the bottom soft. Took the yellow all the way to #1 and raised the Yellow-blue to 6 and it ran real crisp. This helped the feel of the bottom a bunch.
I am thinking of pulling 2 grams out (where?) maybe 1 middle 1 tip. Hoping to pick up the rpm a bit, maybe raise the engagement and help the back shift. I am about maxed out on springs so may be running out of ideas.
MM

Pull as much weight out of the heel as possible. This will get your engagement higher.

noxis
01-09-2013, 10:21 PM
I was wondering where to have the weight in a adjustable? 13 pro rmk 155 with 12 silber kit and boost- it box Like the clutching but slow on the bottom. I have rooster weights set at 76 with the heel set heavy and the tip light. Rideing 8000-10000 pulled 75.5 last trip . Team pink spring and whatever helix came with silbers kit. I broke the primary spring last trip and dident catch it till i got home. Just kept turning boost up to pull rpms started around 10psi

die hard poo
01-10-2013, 09:43 AM
I was wondering where to have the weight in a adjustable? 13 pro rmk 155 with 12 silber kit and boost- it box Like the clutching but slow on the bottom. I have rooster weights set at 76 with the heel set heavy and the tip light. Rideing 8000-10000 pulled 75.5 last trip . Team pink spring and whatever helix came with silbers kit. I broke the primary spring last trip and dident catch it till i got home. Just kept turning boost up to pull rpms started around 10psi

Like I stated in the above post, put as much weight at the TIP as possible. This will make your bottom end better and keep your rpm at target at peak hp. The less weight you put at the heel, the less you load the motor off engagement, which will INCREASE your rpm engagement. It will get you closer to your power band and get closer to boost. The struggle for me while tuning a turbo is to realize you have to clutch for both a stock power output at engagement and turbo power at mid and peak rpm.

I also purchased an EPI-11 Pink spring which is a 185/300 spring. This will give you a higher engagement and allow you to run a couple grams less on top and still maintain your 8200 rpm target.

noxis
01-10-2013, 09:50 AM
Thanks i wanted to ask the question differently but my phone was going dead and it was late. Thanks fot the explanation. I will move some weight around today and post how it works.

2XM3
01-10-2013, 01:01 PM
Yup die hards totally correct, turbo, you want all the weight in the tip, just the opposite of a normally asperated sled. :yo::yo:

dmj1
01-10-2013, 01:27 PM
Also keep in mind these primary and secondary springs don't hold there values forever.. they weaken over time .. I as a general rule change them out every year depending on how much you ride.

hobbes
01-10-2013, 01:53 PM
My specs so far:

8000+ ft @ 11-12 lbs 2011 Silber Pro Cat PC 162 track and 250lb rider

76 grams loaded evenly across the Roosters
Pink Team Primary

42/46 Helix and I'm running whatever primary spring Silber sent with the kit which I think is a 180/280 I believe.

It pulls 8200 out of the hole and drops into about 8000-8100 on a climb. I'd like to get a few more rpms so am thinking of dropping some weight out of the heel. I'm also going to a Tied clutch. Here is the setup I'm going to try next trip, I'll report back.

74 grams loaded tip heavy
Pink Team Primary
Team Tied
57/59 straight helix (going to try the 57 first)
160/280 Team Sec Spring

I know I'm "changing too many things at once" lol, but this is a tried and true setup by a good tuner I know.

TURBOINC
01-10-2013, 01:54 PM
8000-11000 Ft
Primary- almond red 165-310
79 grams weight

Secondary- 48 straight
black lime green 180-300

8lbs of boost with the vipec and tial external pulling 8250 and my arms off

philsummers21
01-12-2013, 07:43 PM
Update. Tried my 175-305 spring. Wow. Thing its so hard off the bottom. Engagement is right around 5000.

Primary temp went up just a tad but fairly cool still. Belt is the hottest part of my clutch setup and isnt that hot.

Going to lower my engagement just a tad go to a 43 gear ratio and call her good. So my final clutch package for 8-11000 ft and 10-12# of boost is

19/43 gearing
7 tooth 163 peak

Primary
74.4 mds turbo weights loaded mid and tip
165-310 with slick washers on each side

Secondary
42-48
Black/orange

sledhappy
02-03-2013, 12:54 PM
I'm running
MDS wieghts loaded in the front.
Black green spring

Secondary
48 straight
Black lime green.

Runs strong 8200

A plug for Steve at MDS. He has the best customer service around. If i have had questions or needed additional parts he has been so helpful! Recommend MDS all the time. The pull hard!

2XM3
02-03-2013, 01:24 PM
Now at 13 lbs.....
stock gearing

155/300 speedwerks H5 primary
78.5 gr roosters , all in the tip
40 50 .4 team helix
165/310 secondary with 2 delrins

@ 7500 ft 8250 pretty good on the bottom as well

philsummers21
02-03-2013, 03:46 PM
What exactly does the different secondary spring accomplish 165-310. right now im running the black/orange 180-280. My setup is pretty good. I like everything except for when i have to hop on the trail. On the trail i can only run a little over half throttle because i hit my rev limiter too easy. Any other condition im at 8200 all day long.

2XM3
12-04-2013, 06:27 AM
ttt should be a sticky

It just seemed to keep the belt from slipping better, and i'm a big guy 6'6" and 295 lol

jeepin270
01-01-2014, 11:14 AM
Sticky?

philsummers21
01-01-2014, 07:44 PM
Heres an update on my setup this year. So far so good.
8-10000 ft 10-12#
19/43 gearing 7 tooth 163
Primary:
MDS turbo weights 74grams
Orange 165/310
Secondary:
straight 48 Helix
Black silver 160-280

jeepin270
01-01-2014, 08:10 PM
Heres an update on my setup this year. So far so good.
8-10000 ft 10-12#
19/43 gearing 7 tooth 163
Primary:
MDS turbo weights 74grams
Orange 165/310
Secondary:
straight 48 Helix
Black silver 160-280

What part do you think you would change if you were low elevation?

philsummers21
01-01-2014, 08:18 PM
Honestly I couldn't tell you. Never rode at low elevation. Im guessing you will be running less boost therefore making about the same hp as I do with higher boost at higher elevation. So if anything id probably just change weights

Spaarky
01-02-2014, 01:57 PM
What part do you think you would change if you were low elevation?

Maybe 4 grams more weight and more helix. If I remember right, that straight 48 flips to a 50. Springs you would have to mess with. I prefer a lower engagement even at higher elevation. We have seem to gotten it to work really well.

Once we hit the 10,000 ft mark or so, that is where I seem to struggle on the bottom a little and need to get it worked out. At a sea level type elevation you don't struggle with lighting the turbo, like at 10,000ft. I would keep the engagement close to stock. That's my personal taste. I like a smooth linear feel, not so much the hard bang.

Like stated it depends on how much boost you are running. I have not spent time messing with it. The very little we ride here, I just try to make sure we don't toast the motor. It feels pretty good, so that is good enough.

sledhead9825
01-21-2014, 01:08 AM
What about a bigger gearing drop? Running a 3 inch so you cant run to fast. Why not gear it down alot more,less stress on the belt and should give you a crisper bottom end.

DYEMAN
01-21-2014, 08:43 PM
Here is my set up:
2012 silber kit with boost it fuel controller
7# of boost at 0-3000ft
Current engagement 4200rpm, 8150rpm peak

Clutching:
Team Pink (180/320) primary spring
78g Rooster weights loaded: 2g heel, 5.5g at mid and tip

Orange/black (180/280) Sec spring
42/46/.36 Helix

This seems to be pretty good, but I ordered an EPI pink (185/300)
primary spring to let me run less weight and get my engagement slightly higher. I noticed if you get the engagement too low(below 4000rpm), it lugs the motor too bad and makes it feel very sluggish. I am shooting for 4500rpm engagement to get that snappyness back off engagement like a stock sled. If this spring doesn't allow me to get my engagement higher, I will use the spring washers to increase the engagement some...
Hope this helps! Loving the boost tho!. Turn boost down the bottom end will come back ? Also a flat or a notched weight might work better than big Spring ! Big springs take on new issues ? Also try stock helix with blk/yellow secondary spring try running a tipped weight , heavy weights tend to tuck under causing Bog ! Then you are chasing fuel curves ect timing ! ???

Hardass
01-21-2014, 09:27 PM
8000-11000 Ft
Primary- almond red 165-310
79 grams weight

Secondary- 48 straight
black lime green 180-300

8lbs of boost with the vipec and tial external pulling 8250 and my arms off

I don't know for sure but I don't think these guys have the external gate which changes every thing as you know internal and external do not compare

CHAZWILDMAN
02-12-2014, 09:50 PM
Has any body ran the team tied clutch with any success? And would like to know opinions on the MDS clutch weights, efifency and overall performance. Thanks Chaz.

sledhead9825
02-12-2014, 10:03 PM
I don't know for sure but I don't think these guys have the external gate which changes every thing as you know internal and external do not compare

At 8LBS internal or external wastegate makes very little, if any difference at WOT and 8250 RPM

CHAZWILDMAN
02-13-2014, 09:32 PM
Has any body ran the team tied clutch with any success? And would like to know opinions on the MDS clutch weights, efifency and overall performance. Thanks Chaz.

Any updates on your clutch set ups 8000-10,000 ft?

CHAZWILDMAN
02-21-2014, 06:29 PM
Breaker Breaker!!!! anybody out there? Come back good buddy!!!!

2XM3
12-20-2014, 04:54 PM
ttt

briand
02-16-2016, 06:52 PM
Thought I would bring this post back. Very good info on here. Has anyone did more refinements to there clutching? any improvements? Does anyone have any good team tied setups there willing to share?
This is my setup so far with mds weights.

Team tied
10 # boost BD turbo External wastegate
63* helix straight
160 - 260 black white team secondary spring with 2 derlin washers
120 -340 black green primary. Engagement about 4100.
MDS weights 63.3 base black short bolt with one washer in mid and outer hole 4 + 4 grams Total 71.3 grams. 8450 - 8500 rpm This is where my motor pulls the best with the RKtec dropin kit installed.

Very hard to get a decent answer with the snow conditions we have during testing here. still debating.
Feb 21 test ended. Well this setup didn't work very good seem to have a lazy shift pattern. on to the next test.

briand
02-21-2016, 04:55 PM
Next test is going to be as follows

10# boost
primary
120-340 black green
MDS weights 75.6 5.1 plate 4 grams mid 3.2 tip.
Not sure about the weights here but this is my starting point.

Secondary
Team tied 63* straight
Black lime green 180-300 spring 1 derlin
1.9 gear ratio.
We will see how this goes.

TRS
02-21-2016, 08:42 PM
Why do all the turbo boys insist on running so much spring pressure in the secondary? Is it to limit the track speed? I rode another reputable builder turbo setup today that hits a speed wall. That wall comes from to much helix angle coupled with big spring pressure.
Edit:
Speed wall and hits rev limit

Spaarky
02-21-2016, 09:32 PM
I like my set up Tony. :face-icon-small-win

fredw
02-21-2016, 10:20 PM
1.9 gear ratio.. That sounds pretty high.. Good for 100mph?


Next test is going to be as follows

10# boost
primary
120-340 black green
MDS weights 75.6 5.1 plate 4 grams mid 3.2 tip.
Not sure about the weights here but this is my starting point.

Secondary
Team tied 63* straight
Black lime green 180-300 spring 1 derlin
1.9 gear ratio.
We will see how this goes.

briand
02-22-2016, 12:15 AM
Why do all the turbo boys insist on running so much spring pressure in the secondary? Is it to limit the track speed? I rode another reputable builder turbo setup today that hits a speed wall. That wall comes from to much helix angle coupled with big spring pressure.
Edit:
Speed wall and hits rev limit

Hey Tony Can you describe the speed wall? I'm not hitting rev limiter but do hit some kind of Barrier. Was hoping that going to a higher spring rate and weight increas would help with this. Maybe wrong train of thought.

TRS
02-22-2016, 07:37 AM
Hey Tony Can you describe the speed wall? I'm not hitting rev limiter but do hit some kind of Barrier. Was hoping that going to a higher spring rate and weight increas would help with this. Maybe wrong train of thought.

Higher spring rates will hold RPM in return limits upshift. Limiting upshift increases RPM and limits track speed. I am running a 140-220 secondary spring in my turbo with 74.6g weights 165-310 primary and it has long legs. Works boondocking, hill climbing, on the trail. 8-9# boost at 8-10,000'. In my stock Pro I am running a 100-150 secondary spring 59g weights with a 110-290 primary. Same helix in both, 46-32F- 46-34F.

briand
02-22-2016, 10:55 AM
Higher spring rates will hold RPM in return limits upshift. Limiting upshift increases RPM and limits track speed. I am running a 140-220 secondary spring in my turbo with 74.6g weights 165-310 primary and it has long legs. Works boondocking, hill climbing, on the trail. 8-9# boost at 8-10,000'. In my stock Pro I am running a 100-150 secondary spring 59g weights with a 110-290 primary. Same helix in both, 46-32F- 46-34F.

Thanks Tony. I have tried lower helix angles in the tied in the past with lower spring rates (57 and 59 degrees with 120 - 220 springs and others) but I found it to back shift to much in the climbs with the turbo. Also with the drop in kit it's a little trickier to get a good shift out pattern and Maintian a good constant 8400-8500 rpm so I needed a little higher end spring rate in primary and secondary area. I think I may go back and try my lower angle helixes with even lighter spring rate see if these help. I have also geared my up to a 1.90 ratio and have not tried this up high yet but down low here found it to pull much harder and longer then before. Belt heat down low here is virtually the same but up high we will see. My line of thinking was gearing it up was the wall, barrier that I was seeing will be moved up higher. Guess il see. Thanks for your input Tony.

TRS
02-22-2016, 12:45 PM
[QUOTE=briand;3933282]Thanks Tony. I have tried lower helix angles in the tied in the past with lower spring rates (57 and 59 degrees with 120 - 220 springs and others) but I found it to back shift to much in the climbs with the turbo. Also with the drop in kit it's a little trickier to get a good shift out pattern and Maintian a good constant 8400-8500 rpm so I needed a little higher end spring rate in primary and secondary area. I think I may go back and try my lower angle helixes with even lighter spring rate see if these help. I have also geared my up to a 1.90 ratio and have not tried this up high yet but down low here found it to pull much harder and longer then before. Belt heat down low here is virtually the same but up high we will see. My line of thinking was gearing it up was the wall, barrier that I was seeing will be moved up higher. Guess il see. Thanks for your input Tony.[/

Can you please explain "it back shifts to much".

briand
02-22-2016, 01:06 PM
When you start out with shallower angle helix I'll get a good start but when you get into the steep it pulls your speed down al lot more then the higher angle helixes while still maintaining Rpms. Going with lighter springs helped but I still could not get it to preform as well with the higher angle helix and heavier spring rate. Now I never went down below 140-240 spring rates and maybe this might have help but I just gave up. Also had higher temps in clutches too. Hope this helps.

briand
02-22-2016, 04:02 PM
1.9 gear ratio.. That sounds pretty high.. Good for 100mph?
I know it sounds high but I am going with a different line of thinking here. I'm not looking to increase my top end speed but I have a idea that the primary has reach its range of effencincy with the turbo. Belt rides up near the top (1/2 inch) with a max track speed of 62 mph in a climb. Test at home here have shown that I have great acceleration up to about 60-65 mph then starts falling off some. With the 1.90 ratio it pulls harder and further along now till about 70 -72. Don't know if this will help increase track speed but willing to try it and see. This gearing at least I don't think it will be good if you ride tress or boondocking. But hill climbing I think it has a chance at working. We will see.

revrider07
02-22-2016, 06:33 PM
100 mph is only needed when your buddies goes 99. I know where your going with this I had a big bore that ran better geared up even though I felt I wasn't getting full shift out on clutches. I might be experiencing the same thing you are describing. Seems to get to a speed and not keep increasing even though power is there.

TRS
02-22-2016, 08:10 PM
I know it sounds high but I am going with a different line of thinking here. I'm not looking to increase my top end speed but I have a idea that the primary has reach its range of effencincy with the turbo. Belt rides up near the top (1/2 inch) with a max track speed of 62 mph in a climb. Test at home here have shown that I have great acceleration up to about 60-65 mph then starts falling off some. With the 1.90 ratio it pulls harder and further along now till about 70 -72. Don't know if this will help increase track speed but willing to try it and see. This gearing at least I don't think it will be good if you ride tress or boondocking. But hill climbing I think it has a chance at working. We will see.

That's your wall, your turbo cannot shift through the spring and helix at that combo.That is why when you geared up your MPH went up. It is shifting to the same place in your secondary.
Food for thought and comparable, is it easier to walk up a 32* slope with 220# on your back or a 62* slope with 300# on your back? On your hike a 32* slope takes longer to gain elevation than a 62* slope but it is sure easier.

briand
02-22-2016, 08:23 PM
OK Tony you got the best of my curiosity going. i'm Going to give it a try just have to find the angles in the tied to make it comparable to the TSS 04.

TRS
02-22-2016, 08:32 PM
OK Tony you got the best of my curiosity going. i'm Going to give it a try just have to find the angles in the tied to make it comparable to the TSS 04.

You will need to lighten your flyweights when you get there.
I have posted this before. The best running Turbo Apex I have ever thrown a leg over, you can watch Rock push the secondary open with his thumb. We need a wrench........

fredw
02-22-2016, 08:46 PM
For what it's worth this is my understanding

If your making 65mph track speed then you want to make gearing for 5 to 10 percent faster at a 1 to 1 ratio of your clutches.. On a doo that is 3/4 inch under top of primary..

Primary is basically holding max rpm to your max hp.. On a doo that is 8000, and no more rpm

Now where the fun gets... is dialling in your secondary helix.. You want as much up shift as you can pull with out losing back shift.. This will put the most tq on your motor allowing you much faster to get up to that speed... In mountain climbs this is what is needed and stands out over n/a

For example on a doo turbo a 40 degree helix can work, but a 44 helix will be visually faster and stand out as long as your sled still has the tq to pull helix when it's needing back shifting.. A solfter secondary spring allows the secondary to open quicker and pull on motor harder over a stiffer spring

So simply ones goal is to pull on your motor as hard as you can with out losing back shift and maintaining max rpm.. In a gear ratio close to your max track speed on a climb..

http://youtu.be/j7Yju0uLgwQ

briand
02-23-2016, 10:44 AM
Ok did some calculations and to covert TRS setup over to a tied setup I would need a 64-54 full progressive helix with the 140 220 spring. See Chart TRS to compare shift curve.

What i found interesting was with my 63* helix and 180 300 spring was that the shift curve after about .5 shift out was really close to the same as TRS. Very interesting how vastly different setups can have similar shift curves. Check out the chart Brian.

I can see i would need to drop a gram or two in the mid hole on my weight to run this setup.

I am going to order the helix but i doubt ill get a chance to try it this year with snow conditions fading here. Oh well always next year.

TRS
02-24-2016, 07:40 AM
Ok did some calculations and to covert TRS setup over to a tied setup I would need a 64-54 full progressive helix with the 140 220 spring. See Chart TRS to compare shift curve.

What i found interesting was with my 63* helix and 180 300 spring was that the shift curve after about .5 shift out was really close to the same as TRS. Very interesting how vastly different setups can have similar shift curves. Check out the chart Brian.

I can see i would need to drop a gram or two in the mid hole on my weight to run this setup.

I am going to order the helix but i doubt ill get a chance to try it this year with snow conditions fading here. Oh well always next year.

Nice charts.

briand
03-01-2016, 05:48 PM
For what it's worth this is my understanding

If your making 65mph track speed then you want to make gearing for 5 to 10 percent faster at a 1 to 1 ratio of your clutches.. On a doo that is 3/4 inch under top of primary..

Primary is basically holding max rpm to your max hp.. On a doo that is 8000, and no more rpm

Now where the fun gets... is dialling in your secondary helix.. You want as much up shift as you can pull with out losing back shift.. This will put the most tq on your motor allowing you much faster to get up to that speed... In mountain climbs this is what is needed and stands out over n/a

For example on a doo turbo a 40 degree helix can work, but a 44 helix will be visually faster and stand out as long as your sled still has the tq to pull helix when it's needing back shifting.. A solfter secondary spring allows the secondary to open quicker and pull on motor harder over a stiffer spring

So simply ones goal is to pull on your motor as hard as you can with out losing back shift and maintaining max rpm.. In a gear ratio close to your max track speed on a climb..

http://youtu.be/j7Yju0uLgwQ

I have gone with this line of thinking for most of my tunning for years with polaris and it works very close to what you say.

briand
03-01-2016, 06:25 PM
With the spring combos and helix angles i had this weekend we had a fairly good go at tunning.
Conditions were blue bird at the top but snow conditions were not the best. About 8 inches to a foot of good snow but really tracked up So all the test had lots of track spots that we were running in. Hill we were playing on was medium type of slope as we felt the steeper ones were not safe to play on. WE might have been able to get more track speed out in thees conditions but hill length limited that

What we tested was as follows.

Primary was the same for all test runs with a 120-340 spring MDS weights. Amounts varied from about 72.5 to 74.4 grams in total depending on setup.

Gearing 1.90

team tied secondary

1st setup

61* helix
black purple spring 160-240.
RPMs around 8400
very little heat in the clutches actually cool to the touch.
This worked ok but felt like it would not let it shift out fully.
Max track speed was about 60-61 mph.
Changing out the spring to a 120-220 did help but clutch heat went up. Gained a little more speed about 1 mph

Second setup

63* helix
160-240 spring secondary
Removed about 1.5 grams from primary.
RPMS about 8400
This setup work very well. Best track speed was 66 mpH and after multiple runs clutch heat was the same as the 61 degree. this setup pulled harder and yet still maintained a good RPM with a little fluctuation of about 100 rpm.

The 160 start rate i felt might be just a little much and rate of 140 might have been better but i had left it in the trailer that day.

I feel this will work in good snow conditions but will probably need to adjust weights a little.

I did not have any lower springs to test with but i feel any less rate would have created more belt heat in the 61.

I could not find my 57* and 59* for this trip but hopefully next time.

roni87
03-02-2016, 11:52 AM
Is there a noticeable lag with the 120-340 primary spring? Running a 170-310 in mine and getting a bit of over-rev if I jump in throttle off the bottom

TRS
03-02-2016, 12:31 PM
Justin, jump in here.

Spaarky
03-02-2016, 03:00 PM
Me???? What part do you want me to comment on? I have some. The moral of the story will be put in Tony's clutching and save yourself a bunch of work. Plus have a sled that rips.

briand
03-02-2016, 03:18 PM
Tony just wondering If you could give me some advice on this tied clutch. What was the best setup you ran on it? I've tried many combos of different setups and so far I cant' seem to get shallower helix angles with low springs to work very well. Problem seems to be that you can get a good RPM's but it shifts out good on flatter hills but once you start climbing into steeper parts the low angle helix just stops shifting out a certain point of height on the hill with a stable rpm say 8300-8400 all the way through. To me with the tied clutches it feels like say if you going with a 61* helix it shifts out like a 61 but when it comes to backshift it acts more like a 57*. TRied many different spring combos over the last 2 years and i can improve it some but not great. I just feel that with low angle helixes with both sheive sides of the secondary pulling on the helix against the rollers there's is just too much of a load sensing difference from the flat ground to steep hill transition thus limiting the shift out. I hope this explains it clear enough.

With the TSS 04 the load sensing isn't as great as you have only half or one side of the sheave to work with load sensing as the other half is transmitted to the drive shaft.

The higher angle seem to be easier to dial in with a better shiftout and backshift. For me seems to 63* works better but when you increase boost levels up beyond 10# then the 63* starts to show the same characteristics of the lower angle with varying backshift .

briand
03-02-2016, 04:10 PM
Is there a noticeable lag with the 120-340 primary spring? Running a 170-310 in mine and getting a bit of over-rev if I jump in throttle off the bottom

No not with my sled but i have MDS weights in it. With these weights in it and the 120-140 spring the engine revs up to about 4500 then seems to kick in with a snap like feel then settle down to about 3900. Any higher spring rate in the begin rate would be quite harsh at engagement.

Spaarky
03-02-2016, 04:40 PM
Get your hands on lightning weights... And shim the primary properly. You will be pleasantly surprised.

TRS
03-02-2016, 08:26 PM
Tony just wondering If you could give me some advice on this tied clutch. What was the best setup you ran on it? I've tried many combos of different setups and so far I cant' seem to get shallower helix angles with low springs to work very well. Problem seems to be that you can get a good RPM's but it shifts out good on flatter hills but once you start climbing into steeper parts the low angle helix just stops shifting out a certain point of height on the hill with a stable rpm say 8300-8400 all the way through. To me with the tied clutches it feels like say if you going with a 61* helix it shifts out like a 61 but when it comes to backshift it acts more like a 57*. TRied many different spring combos over the last 2 years and i can improve it some but not great. I just feel that with low angle helixes with both sheive sides of the secondary pulling on the helix against the rollers there's is just too much of a load sensing difference from the flat ground to steep hill transition thus limiting the shift out. I hope this explains it clear enough.

With the TSS 04 the load sensing isn't as great as you have only half or one side of the sheave to work with load sensing as the other half is transmitted to the drive shaft.

The higher angle seem to be easier to dial in with a better shiftout and backshift. For me seems to 63* works better but when you increase boost levels up beyond 10# then the 63* starts to show the same characteristics of the lower angle with varying backshift .

To be honest I don't like the TIED. I played with it a few years ago and went back to the 4. To me, the 4 is easier to dial in.

diamonddave
03-02-2016, 08:36 PM
briand there have been many good tuners that have run into the same issues with the Tied and have boxes full of helixes and springs to show for it. In theory it should work better than a TSS-04 but the proof is the runnability of the 04 and how well it works.

Now life in the bushings and spacer plate is a different story.

roni87
03-02-2016, 09:06 PM
No not with my sled but i have MDS weights in it. With these weights in it and the 120-140 spring the engine revs up to about 4500 then seems to kick in with a snap like feel then settle down to about 3900. Any higher spring rate in the begin rate would be quite harsh at engagement.

I'm running rooster weights. Base 65g. 5.5 heal, 5 mid, 3.5 tip. 79 total.
Switched spring from 170-310 to a stocker 140-330. Gonna try tomorrow.
Engagement was 4300 with the 170 spring

briand
03-02-2016, 09:29 PM
I'm running rooster weights. Base 65g. 5.5 heal, 5 mid, 3.5 tip. 79 total.
Switched spring from 170-310 to a stocker 140-330. Gonna try tomorrow.
Engagement was 4300 with the 170 spring

I think you will like the stock spring better. With the daltons weight I had before that's the spring I like the best.

briand
03-02-2016, 09:37 PM
briand there have been many good tuners that have run into the same issues with the Tied and have boxes full of helixes and springs to show for it. In theory it should work better than a TSS-04 but the proof is the runnability of the 04 and how well it works.

Now life in the bushings and spacer plate is a different story.

Thanks Dave. With higher helix angles I can get it to work just as good as the tss 04 with a little cooler clutch temps but it will never be better then the 04. What I find is the tied has a much narrower range of what works and what doesn't in each setup. Once you apply a turbo the tied becomes even more finicky to tune.

roni87
03-02-2016, 09:51 PM
I think you will like the stock spring better. With the daltons weight I had before that's the spring I like the best.

I hope so.

Secondary setup.
44-48 .36 helix
120-220 spring, one derlin
Adjusted ratio of 2.03:1 w/ 7 tooth drivers. (22/39) gears.

Silber external gate w/ 5 psi spring @ 1100 ft.
Was running 8050 with 5 psi wot on flat field.
8200-8250 with 7psi spring.

Spaarky
03-04-2016, 01:20 PM
Food for thought and comparable, is it easier to walk up a 32* slope with 220# on your back or a 62* slope with 300# on your back? On your hike a 32* slope takes longer to gain elevation than a 62* slope but it is sure easier.

First off, if you want to keep up with TRS, you better load him on the steepest slope and about 400lbs on his back. Otherwise, you don't have a chance of keeping up. Tony's Beertooth Crossfit program will have you in shape in 3 days. :face-icon-small-win

Honestly, I just got back from what to me is a dream trip. Spending 4-5 days, with 3 awesome tuners/builders, that can ride the crap out of sleds. Plus a couple other really good guys.

Tony asked me to come into this thread again, back some posts. I was quit sure what he wanted me to post. I am still not quit sure, but I can share my experiences. I have been around turbo sleds for a pile of years. I will admit, my technical expertise is probably lacking a bit. I know how to ask questions and learn, and lots of them though.

I have tried a ton of different set ups. Once we got the old Cat secondary set ups ironed out, then it was onto the Team. That threw us for a loop. I have often considered putting one of the old cat clutches back on.

My turbo guru buddy always ran light primary weight set ups. Tall, tall gearing, my last 700 had 1.75:1 and 1.85:1 gears in it. You guys have hit on the philosophy a bit. They would pull well, but I had a couple issues. Bottom end, and spring snow. Bottom end was always a little soggy. Deep, heavy spring snow, my clutches would be hotter than a sheriffs pistol. Plus it never seemed to run quit the same. I think part of that was a reflection of snow conditions.

Last year when my sled was NA, I put Tonys set up in. Never rode a stock sled like it. Almost made me not want a turbo again. Well as we all know its tough to shake the turbo fever. Even after Tony jumped on mine, I could see that little turbo grin on his face.

This year I converted it to his turbo clutching set up. I will admit, I was a bit skeptical. Heavier weights, low gearing, a primary spring that screamed high, high engagement to me. Didn't seem like a recipe for me. Tony had never steered us wrong in the past. Everything we did just flat rocked. So throw it in have some faith and shut up.

There has been a bunch of people on my sled. Turbo lovers to absolute turbo haters. All the comments are the same. Pulls like a freight train, smooth as silk, zero lag, big bore on steroids... you name it. Every comment has been positive. Even my turbohater buddy was impressed.

Its the most rideable turbo I have been on. Trees, hills, jumps, cornices... its awesome. Whick the throttle straight to 8300-8350 and its LOCKED IN. Throttle response in any range is right there. We did change the turbo kit some, so I cant say if that is just clutching or a combo. Clutch heat is in check. I checked Tony even though you didn't see it. The set ups just flat rocks. I can't believe none of the kit builders have latched onto it. They are still using the antiquated reverse helix BS, that has never worked for me. That's fine... Tony can save his info for us.

I am going to let you on to a little secret that I shouldn't tell anyone about Tonys clutching. YOU NEED TO RUN THE PACKAGE COMPLETELY!!!! NO ADAPTING THIS OR THAT. THAT IS NOT HIS SET UP.

Lightning weights, EV springs.... ALL OF IT! There is not a weight on the market that acts or reacts like the Lightning weight.

If you want to maximize his set up do this:

*Follow his center to center procedure
*Have proper alignment
*Have your clutches properly serviced and shimmed.
*Run the Gates belt
*Torque Arm the motor.
*and get the thermostat kit on your sleds. You are missing out on a ton of performance without it.

briand
03-04-2016, 04:01 PM
First off, if you want to keep up with TRS, you better load him on the steepest slope and about 400lbs on his back. Otherwise, you don't have a chance of keeping up. Tony's Beertooth Crossfit program will have you in shape in 3 days. :face-icon-small-win

Honestly, I just got back from what to me is a dream trip. Spending 4-5 days, with 3 awesome tuners/builders, that can ride the crap out of sleds. Plus a couple other really good guys.

Tony asked me to come into this thread again, back some posts. I was quit sure what he wanted me to post. I am still not quit sure, but I can share my experiences. I have been around turbo sleds for a pile of years. I will admit, my technical expertise is probably lacking a bit. I know how to ask questions and learn, and lots of them though.

I have tried a ton of different set ups. Once we got the old Cat secondary set ups ironed out, then it was onto the Team. That threw us for a loop. I have often considered putting one of the old cat clutches back on.

My turbo guru buddy always ran light primary weight set ups. Tall, tall gearing, my last 700 had 1.75:1 and 1.85:1 gears in it. You guys have hit on the philosophy a bit. They would pull well, but I had a couple issues. Bottom end, and spring snow. Bottom end was always a little soggy. Deep, heavy spring snow, my clutches would be hotter than a sheriffs pistol. Plus it never seemed to run quit the same. I think part of that was a reflection of snow conditions.

Last year when my sled was NA, I put Tonys set up in. Never rode a stock sled like it. Almost made me not want a turbo again. Well as we all know its tough to shake the turbo fever. Even after Tony jumped on mine, I could see that little turbo grin on his face.

This year I converted it to his turbo clutching set up. I will admit, I was a bit skeptical. Heavier weights, low gearing, a primary spring that screamed high, high engagement to me. Didn't seem like a recipe for me. Tony had never steered us wrong in the past. Everything we did just flat rocked. So throw it in have some faith and shut up.

There has been a bunch of people on my sled. Turbo lovers to absolute turbo haters. All the comments are the same. Pulls like a freight train, smooth as silk, zero lag, big bore on steroids... you name it. Every comment has been positive. Even my turbohater buddy was impressed.

Its the most rideable turbo I have been on. Trees, hills, jumps, cornices... its awesome. Whick the throttle straight to 8300-8350 and its LOCKED IN. Throttle response in any range is right there. We did change the turbo kit some, so I cant say if that is just clutching or a combo. Clutch heat is in check. I checked Tony even though you didn't see it. The set ups just flat rocks. I can't believe none of the kit builders have latched onto it. They are still using the antiquated reverse helix BS, that has never worked for me. That's fine... Tony can save his info for us.

I am going to let you on to a little secret that I shouldn't tell anyone about Tonys clutching. YOU NEED TO RUN THE PACKAGE COMPLETELY!!!! NO ADAPTING THIS OR THAT. THAT IS NOT HIS SET UP.

Lightning weights, EV springs.... ALL OF IT! There is not a weight on the market that acts or reacts like the Lightning weight.

If you want to maximize his set up do this:

*Follow his center to center procedure
*Have proper alignment
*Have your clutches properly serviced and shimmed.
*Run the Gates belt
*Torque Arm the motor.
*and get the thermostat kit on your sleds. You are missing out on a ton of performance without it.

Thanks Outlaw for your response. First off though I would like to reassure Tony and everyone that i was not trying to give the impression that i doubted his setup, on the contrary i'm really intrigued by it and like i stated in another post i WILL try it but i cant get everything in time to try this year anymore due to snow conditions and other commitments coming. I've always respect the advice and have followed lots of what Tony recommends on snowest so please i apologize if I came across disrespectful. That was not my intent.

I was hoping to get the tied to work better but maybe its not possible.

Like you Outlaw I found to by gearing up it does seem to be doogie in the bottom but livable. It does pull harder on flat ground but not necessarily on the hill. Still don't know if it increased any track speed or not. I honestly feel i will be going back to a stock or lower ratio.

Its good to see feedback from other users like yourself that have used his setup. Skepticism Maybe i have a little also but that is what drives me to find out what works and what doesn't work by testing others setups out first. Many times I have found that what i think works best is not necessarily the best setup. there's always going to be something better coming or just around the corner. Someone's always refining setups while thinking of different approaches.

wellfed777
03-04-2016, 04:46 PM
outlaw how much boost you running ?
i ask because i'm wondering what weight lighting i should
order /start with i'm running 7-8 lbs
thanks

NWaxys
03-19-2016, 08:23 PM
Axys with silber pump gas 5 lbs. silber sent clutching kit was almond red with 76 weights and secondary is black white or black yellow. My top rpm is 8250 so it's awesome clutch ingages at 4100 but hits so hard?hits very hard. Also if I hold throttle lightly to barley move it will ingage and disengage over and over. It's bucks like a bull. After I'm up to speed/rpm it's awesome. I can't figure it out? Go to almond blue spring or what? Any ideas ???

Spaarky
03-19-2016, 10:39 PM
put in TRS's clutching and gearing. It will fix all your problems. Period.
Plus your not turning enough RPM.

JJ_0909
03-20-2016, 09:48 AM
Axys with silber pump gas 5 lbs. silber sent clutching kit was almond red with 76 weights and secondary is black white or black yellow. My top rpm is 8250 so it's awesome clutch ingages at 4100 but hits so hard?hits very hard. Also if I hold throttle lightly to barley move it will ingage and disengage over and over. It's bucks like a bull. After I'm up to speed/rpm it's awesome. I can't figure it out? Go to almond blue spring or what? Any ideas ???

Give me a ring if you like - I can help 9702190258. Had the same problem.

JJ_0909
03-20-2016, 10:10 AM
Axys with silber pump gas 5 lbs. silber sent clutching kit was almond red with 76 weights and secondary is black white or black yellow. My top rpm is 8250 so it's awesome clutch ingages at 4100 but hits so hard?hits very hard. Also if I hold throttle lightly to barley move it will ingage and disengage over and over. It's bucks like a bull. After I'm up to speed/rpm it's awesome. I can't figure it out? Go to almond blue spring or what? Any ideas ???

Just so I put it here - its your belt. I'm betting money its glazed like crazy. New belt will fix the problem.

Now the reason its glazing - that's a whole other thing.

First, I've found Arctic Cat belts to work better. Second, check your alignment and everything. Third, there is a good chance your helix is slightly too flat causing belt slippage (and heat).

I'm running a green/pink spring, 48 degree helix (slightly too steep), 10-70 weights, black/lime secondary at 5psi at 8000 feet. Works great less the overly steep helix

ghost rider
10-14-2016, 08:37 PM
Have been trying to dial the Polaris turbo clutching since 11' on my first Pro. At first ran the clutching Boondocker sent with the kit and knew first ride that wasn't going to work. So I ordered five custom cut helixes from team to test and tune with.

Tried all of them and the one that gave you optimal upshift, back shift and the best performance all round. Boondocking, technical tree riding and hitting the big schutes. We ride 7k to 11k

Was and still is the 48/42/.33 shiftout Team Helix
Sec/140/260/Higher Boost spring. 140/240/Lower Boost
Primary weight also dictates secondary finish rates
Primary spring finish rates range 330 to 350
We tried a lot of different primary weights (excluding Lightning)
That Tony is using and I'm sure the lightings work well
We used standard Polaris 10 series 70 gram to 72 gram weight
They were good at all throttle position's and made smooth linear power.

We have had four Boondocker turboed Pro's that we rode and tuned from 11' to 15'. Now we are on 2-T3 872's with our custom clutching. And have 3-G4's and another clutching challenge coming up. They key to a good
Running sled is Clutching, Clutching, Clutching.

562xp
10-15-2016, 11:46 AM
Higher spring rates will hold RPM in return limits upshift. Limiting upshift increases RPM and limits track speed. I am running a 140-220 secondary spring in my turbo with 74.6g weights 165-310 primary and it has long legs. Works boondocking, hill climbing, on the trail. 8-9# boost at 8-10,000'. In my stock Pro I am running a 100-150 secondary spring 59g weights with a 110-290 primary. Same helix in both, 46-32F- 46-34F.

Two questions, one what brand of weights are you running and two where do get the helix from?

Spaarky
10-15-2016, 05:59 PM
Two questions, one what brand of weights are you running and two where do get the helix from?

Lightning. You can purchase some from Indy Specialties.

Helix. Rogers Sports in Cody.

If you do this follow it to a T. Do not skip or cut corners.

KAWGRN
10-15-2016, 06:50 PM
Which lightening weights 72'sor 76's,,,

Spaarky
10-15-2016, 07:18 PM
Not sure on all the sizes. 70, ?, 75, 78. He has a bunch of styles and options.

As I said. If you guys use this, you MUST USE IT FULLY, no well I have this or that. Lightning weights require the primary to be shimmed. You have to drill each hole the same. Clutches and belt clean! The list goes on. If you follow it, it is well worth it.

KAWGRN
10-16-2016, 03:52 PM
Any one try the SLP weights?

ez-ryder
11-17-2016, 07:18 PM
Ok so you have to run TRS's exact setup. No making compromise.
What is the EV spring story?

ez-ryder
11-18-2016, 11:28 AM
Nobody knows anything about which exhaust valve springs to run in a turbo?
I'm assuming that's what sparrky was referring to on page 4.

ez-ryder
11-24-2016, 04:28 PM
Higher spring rates will hold RPM in return limits upshift. Limiting upshift increases RPM and limits track speed. I am running a 140-220 secondary spring in my turbo with 74.6g weights 165-310 primary and it has long legs. Works boondocking, hill climbing, on the trail. 8-9# boost at 8-10,000'. In my stock Pro I am running a 100-150 secondary spring 59g weights with a 110-290 primary. Same helix in both, 46-32F- 46-34F.

The helix 46-32f is that a electric reverse helix?

Spaarky
11-24-2016, 11:51 PM
Electric reverse?

briand
11-25-2016, 07:48 PM
Nobody knows anything about which exhaust valve springs to run in a turbo?
I'm assuming that's what sparrky was referring to on page 4.

This is what i'm running in my turbo sled but i also have the RK Version 1 dropin kit.

7041786--11 PINK/YELLOW 9.0 - 11.5 pounds

It was hard to find so i think you have to order them.

Spaarky
11-25-2016, 08:21 PM
Tony is running green exhaust valve springs if I remember right.

ez-ryder
11-25-2016, 09:22 PM
Electric reverse?
PERC helix with reverse notch.
Catalog I've seen show those low angles without the notch.

Spaarky
11-25-2016, 09:48 PM
There is a notch, but it doesn't hold, you have to machine it bigger.

ez-ryder
11-25-2016, 11:02 PM
So team doesn't do custom angles like that 46-34 with a reverse notch?
Or in their mind they do? But the notch isn't big enough to work.

I guess my question is, did Tony start with what team listed as non-reverse helix?

ez-ryder
11-25-2016, 11:12 PM
7041704-01 Blue 4.0 6.0
7041704-02 Orange 5.5 8.3
7041704-03 Pink 4.7 7.1
7041704-04 Purple 3.1 4.7
7041704-05 Yellow 2.4 3.6
7041704-06 White 1.6 2.8

Found this, not very stiff springs. Are there more polaris ones?.
I guess i can get some new orange ones.

briand
11-26-2016, 11:09 AM
heres is a chart i went by

Spaarky
11-26-2016, 04:08 PM
Sorry it's the green white.

As far as the helix. I don't know. When it comes from Venom it has a notch, but won't hold. So we machine it further to hold.

gmustangt
11-28-2016, 09:46 AM
So who has a 40 - 50 .4 helix that they ran and dont like?

ez-ryder
01-11-2017, 02:07 PM
My D7 turbo is working ok clutching wise.
I'm running right now.
team primary red 140-320
lightening weights 70gr or 75gr with both heel holes drilled to make it 72.5gr depending on boost
44-50 helix 180-280 sec spring

I was going to try the tried and true 40-50 helix and get it made with a 38-48 option.
But the low helix angle clutching of TRS's seems to be gaining popularity.
the reverse angle turbo helix has always made sense to me. Or is the reverse angle turbo helix only to make the 10 series weights work in a turbo.

I'd like to try a straight 40 or maybe a little bigger straight one.
Anyone with a axys that isn't using their str 40? maybe one in Canada.
Or should I order 46-36 and the soft spring?

Anyone

ez-ryder
01-11-2017, 08:34 PM
Will the low heel weight of the lightening weight combined with a less initial angle than my current 44 degrees.
Cause it to flash overev a bit then pull back down.

Being a 700 with less torque.
What sec clutching changes are necessary vs. A new 800?

Everyone is using the 46 34 side of TRS's helix.
I could get a 40-50 .4 and 46-34 in one helix and try both.

Anyone have any other suggestions?