Streak marks at full shift out on secondary
- Thread starter kidwoo
- Start date
Not enough clamping force...
Now u have to figure out what is inhibiting the appropriate force?
Were u cruising in hyperdrive? (75+mph)
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Now u have to figure out what is inhibiting the appropriate force?
Were u cruising in hyperdrive? (75+mph)
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Big jump, full throttle landing or, bad spring....
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- Oct 14, 2008
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Post a pic of the primary for further investigation of black marks.
- Oct 14, 2008
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I said post a pic, not post a description. Haha.
I want to see how far up the belt is going ion the primary and correspond those marks with the bottoming out marks in your secondary. Check out where the belt is bottoming out in your secondary. Something is amiss.
I don't get full shift on the primary if that's your question....never have since new. Bunch of threads on this when the team/boss clutches showed up on these things.
Is that what you want to see? Just the belt marks on the primary?
Is that what you want to see? Just the belt marks on the primary?
The belt is too short to get full shift of the primary. Belt always bottoms out in the secondary.
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- Oct 14, 2008
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Cool. I own an Alpha but haven’t run the stock clutches. I haven’t seen rubber so thick on a clutch like that.
I know the sheaves won’t touch preventing full shift out. But then I heard the primary clutch was updated and full shift out is possible but then the belt is too short. If that’s the case, this cvt system has a flaw, or two. Which we knew and it was obvious from the start. If the belt can touch the flat bottom of the secondary clutch, it is wrong. The belt will slip or, in skidoo’s case, the belt will blow when the cogs hits the bolt heads down there. Anyhoo, it’s cool to see it stare you on the face like this.
Yes, I’d still like to see primary pic If you don’t mind. I’m not calling you a liar or doubting you or anything like that. I’m piecing together the different changes and problems with the Cat Cvt system. They didn’t put out any info on the changes so the public has to figure it out.
This is not an Alpha with the longer belt, this is a 2016 setup with the short belt.
I would like to know if anyone has ran the longer belt on the 2016/17 clutches?
The smaller diameter center may allow belt to come out of secondary? Or is it just long enough to prevent bottoming out in the secondary?
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- Oct 14, 2008
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Thx for the pic. Yes, it is clear now.
You don’t maintain your chit. See the filthy primary rollers and weights? No wonder there’s marks on your primary from blowing belts. A sticking primary could be adding to the problem. Add no maintenance, high miles with a worn out secondary and now we are on the forums asking for help and opinions. Which is why we are all here right? Yes, that is correct.
If over 1000 hard mountain miles it will be less headache to simply buy a new secondary clutch. The team boss secondaries wear out fairly quickly.
The primary needs a good disassembly and clean and prolly a few new parts. If you work on the secdy with the primary the way it is, you will be chasing your tail and wasting your time. Plus, you will pull your hair out andthere’s not much left already.
What year and model of sled?
Is that the original primary clutch?
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It's baaaaack.
I've had those clutches apart and cleaned multiple times over the 3+years I've owned this sled. In fact the secondary spring and rollers are the only thing I haven't changed at this point, sheaves included. Why the hell you think I was taking things apart when I found the belt marks (which are a new thing).
There's been one belt blown on that sled due to stripping splines on the outer secondary sheave, also a 'thing' with these. If I'm guilty of anything it's not digging into this one after every ride because it's pretty much my secondary sled now and I've been a little distracted with a fueling issue every time I take it out.
It's a 1973 pantera with something that looked like a clutch I pulled off of a mining conveyor belt I found in a mine in the middle of nevada. It runs on brontosaurus tendons.
I've had those clutches apart and cleaned multiple times over the 3+years I've owned this sled. In fact the secondary spring and rollers are the only thing I haven't changed at this point, sheaves included. Why the hell you think I was taking things apart when I found the belt marks (which are a new thing).
There's been one belt blown on that sled due to stripping splines on the outer secondary sheave, also a 'thing' with these. If I'm guilty of anything it's not digging into this one after every ride because it's pretty much my secondary sled now and I've been a little distracted with a fueling issue every time I take it out.
It's a 1973 pantera with something that looked like a clutch I pulled off of a mining conveyor belt I found in a mine in the middle of nevada. It runs on brontosaurus tendons.
- Oct 14, 2008
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- 3,864
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No need a knob. I’m trying to help which you asked for on a public forum. If you don’t want opinions and help them don’t post a question. Your being stingy and defensive with sharing info so it’s either you don’t know, or you messed something up and you know it. It’ll come to light sometime. Good luck with your junk.
Now that I have most of the info, it’s started small and you shoulda caught it long ago if you woulda just listened to your sled. Same with the splines stripping. Ya didn’t pay attention. You cost yourself $500 in belts and parts because of your lack of knowledge. And now you need a third expensive belt. Hahaha. You are the one to blame for the failure.
The belt cogs are melted and surely you woulda felt the slip and smelled the rubber. The primary lines on your clutch tells a good story but you didn’t see that cuz according to you, the primary is good. Which it isn’t. There are 3 obvious things wrong with your system but I’m sure you will figure it out after another blindly replacing more parts.
0. The fuel problem is an easy fix, no problem for most. You got a lot to learn.
I woulda sold you my brand new take off team boss secondary with helix and spring for $100 but you can go gfy. Go buy some more belts.
Bahahahaha have a drink tonight and think of the headaches and $2,000 and the frustrating sled trips you cost yourself! Don’t be a prickle next time and you might learn something. Drink up!Bahahahaha
Now that I have most of the info, it’s started small and you shoulda caught it long ago if you woulda just listened to your sled. Same with the splines stripping. Ya didn’t pay attention. You cost yourself $500 in belts and parts because of your lack of knowledge. And now you need a third expensive belt. Hahaha. You are the one to blame for the failure.
The belt cogs are melted and surely you woulda felt the slip and smelled the rubber. The primary lines on your clutch tells a good story but you didn’t see that cuz according to you, the primary is good. Which it isn’t. There are 3 obvious things wrong with your system but I’m sure you will figure it out after another blindly replacing more parts.
0. The fuel problem is an easy fix, no problem for most. You got a lot to learn.I woulda sold you my brand new take off team boss secondary with helix and spring for $100 but you can go gfy. Go buy some more belts.
Bahahahaha have a drink tonight and think of the headaches and $2,000 and the frustrating sled trips you cost yourself! Don’t be a prickle next time and you might learn something. Drink up!Bahahahaha
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Be nice.
No need for such hostility.
One dig starts another, then we end up with a hole and nobody likes holes.... (insert sexual innuendo here
).
@kanedog, explain what is wrong with the primary. I believe that it is held out of full shift due to the incorrect belt length, incorrect matching of sheave diameters between the primary and secondary or, CTC of clutches. CTC is not adjustable so it is the matching of clutch sheaves or belt length.
Both of which are factory....
Can you show all of us a 2016-17 cat primary that has full shift while still using the factory secondary and belt?
I like learning, teach me or i will teach u. Either way, we both should come out a little smarter.
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No need for such hostility.
One dig starts another, then we end up with a hole and nobody likes holes.... (insert sexual innuendo here
).@kanedog, explain what is wrong with the primary. I believe that it is held out of full shift due to the incorrect belt length, incorrect matching of sheave diameters between the primary and secondary or, CTC of clutches. CTC is not adjustable so it is the matching of clutch sheaves or belt length.
Both of which are factory....
Can you show all of us a 2016-17 cat primary that has full shift while still using the factory secondary and belt?
I like learning, teach me or i will teach u. Either way, we both should come out a little smarter.
Sent it
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- Oct 14, 2008
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Skidwoo started by being a sexual innuendo hole.
I asked him for more info and he got butthurt and defensive for whatever reason.
The primary looks like a 2018+ primary but the kid won’t answer if it’s new, 2,000 miles or anything.
As you know, late Cat clutches won’t get full shift out but it should get a bit closer than 5/8-3/4.” I never said it said get full shift out. Kid poo said that. It leads me to believe, like you said, the belt is too short, like way too short. I used a different size belt for my Alpha with different clutches and it would prolly solve Kids issue depending on in his model of primary clutch l. But his attitude dictates that he can figure it out for himself. I like to remove the springs and clamp the primary shut to see how far up belt will go. Kid woo doesn't do this tho so we gotta use clutching marks and evidence to track down the issue.
Some Cat clutches, depending on year won’t fully close and have about a .052-.060” gap between the primary sheaves. The belt would be a little higher if it closed that much. That’s why I ask what year the clutch is.
The melted cogs are usually from belt slipping on the primary. Kids secondary shows not much wear on the outside so belt to sheave clearance or the deflection may be off or a wet clutch. There’s not much melting on the inside hub of the secondary, it mostly on the sides but the belt is bottoming out. Now it would make sense that the belt only as high as it is if the some of the rubber is on sides of the secondary. Which makes sense because the belt to sheave clearance is off, causing the sled to start in second gear(refer to the belt marks lower in the primary, and non existent in the edge of the secondary. I was in a roll and too excited to proof read so I hope that makes sense. Welcome to my brain.
I asked for more info so I don’t have to guess but Kid thinks I’m insulting him or something. Weird.
I’d also like to see a full primary pic with cover as I’m sure his clutch is cracked somewhere even tho he says it’s good.
As for marks on the primary-I notice the distinct lines from mid to max belt height on the sheave. They are 3/8” apart So either he rides at steady throttle at different rpm’s or one of the clutches are sticking. Then I look at the rusty roller and weight so it can be the dirty primary sticking or the secondary. All clutches have to be clean and operating freely or problem solving is a waste of time. That’s why I ask all kinds of questions and soon enough, the cause emerges.
As for kid woo, he was a xxxx so he’s on ignore and he can figure things out on his own. No more info for him on his issues. Nothing personal.
I asked him for more info and he got butthurt and defensive for whatever reason.
The primary looks like a 2018+ primary but the kid won’t answer if it’s new, 2,000 miles or anything.
As you know, late Cat clutches won’t get full shift out but it should get a bit closer than 5/8-3/4.” I never said it said get full shift out. Kid poo said that. It leads me to believe, like you said, the belt is too short, like way too short. I used a different size belt for my Alpha with different clutches and it would prolly solve Kids issue depending on in his model of primary clutch l. But his attitude dictates that he can figure it out for himself. I like to remove the springs and clamp the primary shut to see how far up belt will go. Kid woo doesn't do this tho so we gotta use clutching marks and evidence to track down the issue.
Some Cat clutches, depending on year won’t fully close and have about a .052-.060” gap between the primary sheaves. The belt would be a little higher if it closed that much. That’s why I ask what year the clutch is.
The melted cogs are usually from belt slipping on the primary. Kids secondary shows not much wear on the outside so belt to sheave clearance or the deflection may be off or a wet clutch. There’s not much melting on the inside hub of the secondary, it mostly on the sides but the belt is bottoming out. Now it would make sense that the belt only as high as it is if the some of the rubber is on sides of the secondary. Which makes sense because the belt to sheave clearance is off, causing the sled to start in second gear(refer to the belt marks lower in the primary, and non existent in the edge of the secondary. I was in a roll and too excited to proof read so I hope that makes sense. Welcome to my brain.
I asked for more info so I don’t have to guess but Kid thinks I’m insulting him or something. Weird.
I’d also like to see a full primary pic with cover as I’m sure his clutch is cracked somewhere even tho he says it’s good.
As for marks on the primary-I notice the distinct lines from mid to max belt height on the sheave. They are 3/8” apart So either he rides at steady throttle at different rpm’s or one of the clutches are sticking. Then I look at the rusty roller and weight so it can be the dirty primary sticking or the secondary. All clutches have to be clean and operating freely or problem solving is a waste of time. That’s why I ask all kinds of questions and soon enough, the cause emerges.
As for kid woo, he was a xxxx so he’s on ignore and he can figure things out on his own. No more info for him on his issues. Nothing personal.
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Kanedog, Look at how dirty and rusty my clutch is.
How many miles/rides would u think i have on this total?
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How many miles/rides would u think i have on this total?
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- Oct 14, 2008
- 3,107
- 3,864
- 113
- 60
Maybe 100-400miles. I dunno if you ride mellow or hard so that is a factor.Kanedog, Look at how dirty and rusty my clutch is.
How many miles/rides would u think i have on this total?
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The clutch is nice and clean but the rust color indicates a vibration issue. It’s called “fretting.” The more rust coloured dust, the more vibration issue you have.
I’d toss that Zrp wimpy cover tho and get an 911 cover. The 911 cover has a much bigger bushing, thicker cover, more meat and larger diameter bushing/post
holds the clutch together more solid.
In a nutshell, the clutch you are so proud of of has already weakened cuz you ran the stock cover for a little bit. The seed has been planted.
On the weight bolt/pin checkout the build up of belt dust. It’s actually thick and filling in the threads of the pin. This indicates a belt/clutch/slipping/alignment/clearance issue. It’s up to you to figure it which it is but that’s not normal. Keep the rust and belt dust ? clean and you will get more miles from the clutch. The rust and belt dust is really gritty and wears out bushings and sliding mechanism of the clutches.
I give your clutch maybe 1000miles if you ride hard, 2000 if you ride mellow. Start saving $25/month for a future new clutch.
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