Proposal to Shut Down Togwotee Riding Areas

Upcoming Events
January 22, 2016 - Any new proposals for winter motorized use are due to appropriate ranger district
February 2, 2016 - Workshop for winter motorized travel, Dubois
February 3, 2016 - Workshop for winter motorized travel, Lander
February 4, 2016 - Workshop for winter motorized travel, Cody
February 24-25, 2016 - Education and Compliance Summit, Days Inn Thermopolis, 11:00am on February 24t - 3:00pm on February 25

As usual the meetings are farthest away from the areas affected ( Cooke City at top of map !! )

TTT

That same BS was heard 20 years ago and will never happen, because recreation and snowmobiling is a state wide industry AKA tourism....

There have been many tree hungers attempting this and all have failed... The previous owner of Tog was a tree hugger and he sold out , Brooks lake lodge would be out of business if not for sledders, the town of Dubois will be a ghost town is not for sledders.

Yellowstone Park was supposed to be closed to ... LOL, don't believe the BS.

DPG

Is there anything in addition to writing a letter that us out of town people can do?

The greenies can and will shut us out of our riding areas. Look around, even the bighorns have lots of area besides wilderness that we can't use. The lone skier parked in those parking lots seems to justify it. The FS doesn't care about Dubois, or WY's economy.

Oh and Yellowstone is closed to us normal folk. If I put in for the lottery in September I might be able to go without a guide. But will be only able to take 5 sleds total (sorry Dad, you can’t go), everyone will have to take the training course, and oh wait we will have to rent sleds since none of ours are BAT certified.

The days of riding from Cody over to West, doing some riding over at Lions head then heading home are over. Wish my kids would have been able to experience it the way myself and my parents were able to.

But you can still ride from south entrance of Grand Teton Park Wyoming through Yellowstone to West Yellowstone to Lions Head.... You can still ride from Togwotte to Pinedale Wy. to Alpine Wy. & to Bone Idaho.

DPG

Deep Powder Guy said:

But you can still ride from south entrance of Grand Teton Park Wyoming through Yellowstone to West Yellowstone to Lions Head.... You can still ride from Togwotte to Pinedale Wy. to Alpine Wy. & to Bone Idaho.

DPG

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^^^that there is a lot of stickers^^^

Deep Powder Guy said:

But you can still ride from south entrance of Grand Teton Park Wyoming through Yellowstone to West Yellowstone to Lions Head.... You can still ride from Togwotte to Pinedale Wy. to Alpine Wy. & to Bone Idaho.

DPG

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So? You can ride a little part of the park, big whoop.

You can't ride out of Cody anymore and doing so killed a large chuck of Cody's winter economy just like it will do in Dubios. That's the point, they keep taking bits and pieces out of everything and you say that is all BS..... :face-icon-small-dis

They will never close the Continental Divide Snowmobile system ... I have personal been to many meeting and nobody in the Togwotte, Dubois, Jackson, Pinedale & Alpine area will allow such a land closure to occur.

DPG

perhaps I am wrong, but I followed the link and saw:
"The Forest Plan already established the management areas where winter motorized recreation is allowed and those Management Areas will not change."

Does this mean the riding area will not be shrinking?

Once upon a time you stand on top of Bricca and look north into the Shoshone Forest and ride that area has been long closed to motorized vehicals. However, everything south all the way to Brush Creek aka Triangle X ranch is open ... That is a huge riding area in IMO.

Than on a good snow season like I have already stated Tog. to Pinedale, Pinedale to Alpine, Alpine to Bone Idaho.

And for those who want to travel through the Jellystone that option is also still possible.

Plenty of awesome riding IMO... Only 1 sticker required except for Jellystone.

Deep Powder Guy said:

They will never close the Continental Divide Snowmobile system ... I have personal been to many meeting and nobody in the Togwotte, Dubois, Jackson, Pinedale & Alpine area will allow such a land closure to occur.

DPG

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you are not paying attention to what the courts are doing... once snowmobiles are regulated as a motor vehicle your hot rod hill climber will be restricted to "open" roadways... Keep in mind it won't be locals that shut it down.

Anyone giving money to Blue Ribbon Coalition (they fight back in these matters) or just bitchin on the forums??:eyebrows:

Stay Involved -- Help Advocate for Snowmobiling on Togwotee

Hi All,
Thanks for getting involved in this planning process. Our voice is hugely important! So Thank you. Here is a somewhat long response to Polaris Dude's post.

The statement about management areas is technically correct, but misleading at the same time. When the Plan (Shoshone Plan Link) was released, areas in the Forest were placed under Management Areas (MAs) or Management Area Prescriptions (MAPs). This makes the forest look like a big patchwork quilt (Map of MAs) of who can do what when and where. Each MA has things that are allowed, not allowed, what type of fuels treatment can occur, if roads/trails can be built, etc. To change how an area is managed, i.e. the MA of an area, requires a Forest Plan Amendment which is a lengthy process, and not what is currently happening -- so yes, the statement about not changing areas is technically correct.

However, if one reads MA 3.3A (Back country recreation year-round motorized page 152) and 3.3B (Back country recreation summer nonmotorized with winter motorized page 153) you will see the wording:

"A variety of motorized and non-motorized recreation opportunities are provided. Summer motorized use occurs on motorized trails and snowmobiling opportunities are provided on groomed trails and in areas open to off-trail snow play. Access is provided by non-motorized trails and motorized trails. "

or

" Winter recreation use is non-motorized and motorized. Snowmobiling opportunities are provided on groomed trails and in areas open to offtrail snow play"

This means, that under winter travel planing, the Forest CAN close areas within the MAs they feel are not appropriate for off-trail snowmobile use. Even if the MA allows it! In hindsight we should have tried to get the "open" wording removed so there was not this ambiguity.

The Wyoming State Snowmobile Association and the Cody, WY snowmobile club have voiced the very valid opinion that no areas in MAs allowing winter motorized use should be closed to trail or off-trail snowmobile use. This is a good stance and one that we should comment with.

The FS has long been know to do things we don't understand/agree with. Do not underestimate what "creative" ideas come out of a FS planning process. In SE Wyoming we are going through summer motorized travel planing on the Pole Mountain Unit of the Med Bow (Snowy Range). The FS has proposed closing the majority of OHV routes and roads in a backcountry recreation MAP (which specifically states trails are allowed/desired) and building a new OHV trail within a wildlife winter range area. Figure that one out???

Additionally, the FS can use things like "snow seasons" and "snow depth" to limit use as well. In our area, winter "stops" on June 1 and even though we have ride-able snow until July, we are not allowed off a designated road with our OSVs even in year-round motorized areas. But, we are allowed to ride them on dry roads in August. Kid-you-not, this was an actual benefit to the rule that the FS office gave us :face-icon-small-dis

Once again, thanks to all who are participating in this planning process. Your efforts are very appreciated.

It's a vicious cycle with a bad ending. When areas get closed for snowmobiling (atv, 4 wheeling, camping, etc), it naturally sends people to the remaining open areas. With a growing population of users and a shrinking area to use, it means heavier use in the remaining areas. Heavier use results in more user conflicts, more environmental impact (real or perceived), and that leads to another closing which starts the cycle all over again.

This happens every time there is a presidential election year.

DPG

Deep Powder Guy said:

This happens every time there is a presidential election year.

DPG

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It's happening every year all across the west in various different locations...... Snowies, togwotee, in Idaho, Colorado, Utah. Every time we turn around its a fight to keep our areas open. They do it incrementally. 10 acres here 1000 acres there. It adds up after a while.

rulonjj said:

It's happening every year all across the west in various different locations...... Snowies, togwotee, in Idaho, Colorado, Utah. Every time we turn around its a fight to keep our areas open. They do it incrementally. 10 acres here 1000 acres there. It adds up after a while.

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Correct, but is there anyone who does not have enough area to ride ?

DPG

Is there such thing as enough? Maybe for sledders, but the greenies won't have enough until they have it all as they want it, with no motorized travel.

In my area the forest service plan is to give the sledders a big wide open area in the center of the forest Then systematically close off the access points to that large open area one after the other. Nobody pays enough attention because the closures are all small little areas. However in the end by closing off all the access points they in turn close off the entire area. They stand there and argue that they have left all this open area to ride. which of course they have, its just nobody can get into it without breaking the law. It has worked great for them. Then on our side we have people saying things like it will never happen and they will kill off tourism i am too busy for there BS. In the end we are all standing there screaming they cant do this. They purposely hold meetings in small areas so that the turnout will be kept to a minimum and the opposition will be small to their plans to close areas. I get the idea of conservation but there is a right way and wrong way to go about doing it.

bholmlate said:

In my area the forest service plan is to give the sledders a big wide open area in the center of the forest Then systematically close off the access points to that large open area one after the other. Nobody pays enough attention because the closures are all small little areas. However in the end by closing off all the access points they in turn close off the entire area. They stand there and argue that they have left all this open area to ride. which of course they have, its just nobody can get into it without breaking the law. It has worked great for them. Then on our side we have people saying things like it will never happen and they will kill off tourism i am too busy for there BS. In the end we are all standing there screaming they cant do this. They purposely hold meetings in small areas so that the turnout will be kept to a minimum and the opposition will be small to their plans to close areas. I get the idea of conservation but there is a right way and wrong way to go about doing it.

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X2 on that. You are exactly correct!:thumb::thumb:

My understanding is there is another meeting on this subject either this week or next???