New sno park in Central Oregon Kapka Butte

[Oregonsledder]

I don’t know if you Central Oregon guys saw the news the other day that the Kapka Butte snow park will be built. I think it said it will be built in 2013.
This has been an ongoing discussion and I will tell you what I think is the real plan for this new snow park.

The Forest Service web site basically says it’s a new snow park to add to the existing parks for general winter recreation. On the surface this would look like good news for us sledders. It will be on the south side of the road across from Vista close to the Sunriver road.

I have read several articles over the past few years that have indicated that this snow park is tied to a much bigger plan and the long term out come will not be a good thing for mountain riders.

The belief by some (I’m one of them) is that Mt Bachelor and the Forest service wants to close Dutchman snow park to snowmobiles. They also as part of the bigger plan will close Tumalo to snowmobiling shortly after the Kapka snow park completion. I have also read that many believe that the long range plan is to close off all areas north of the highway to Bachelor to snowmobiling, that’s another reason Kapka is on the south side of the road.

If the real objective was to improve the parking situation for everyone, they would simply expand Dutchman and insure that everyone had the highest elevation access to the best riding and skiing areas.

I suspect the roll out of the bigger plan in phases, possibly over a few years was to keep the uproar to a minimum.

For trail riders who stay on the groomed trails, they will probably not care that they cannot ride Tumalo, or go to the office, Moon etc..

The reason I’m posting this is to keep mountain riders aware of what’s going on. This has been handled very quietly and one day we may see the boundary signs moved and it will be too late to do anything.

If my views are just fanning the flames of the conspiracy theorists, then so be it, but if I’m right, things will be changing and not for the better.

If anyone knows of an organization that is fighting for our rights to our public lands, then post it in response to this message. I have heard the OSSA is involved in this Kapka project, and has singed off on the long term plan!

http://www.fs.fed.us/nepa/nepa_proje...?project=11086


The above text was posted by me on a Central Oregon web site, Sledspace. Many of you in the area know of the site. In additional posts, I suggest to the site creator Ben (his name is Deschutes) on Snowest, that the up-coming Sledfilm event in Bend in early November might be the perfect place to make a stand of some kind at the last minute to try to get local media attention to this very serious up-coming land restriction by the Forest Service. This event will have the largest number of mountain riders in one place at one time here in Central Oregon. These are the people who are about to lose their access to the best riding on Mt. Bachelor that we have today. In fact some of the films that will be seen were filmed in the areas that will most likely be closed.

So far Ben has been unwilling to say why he is not in favor of doing something, make an announcement, hand out flyers, something at his event (he is the Sledfilm organizer as well).
If there is someone on Snowest that knows Ben and might encourage him to help us possibly make enough noise to stop this action, it would be appreciated by many guys I know. I have tried to open some dialog with him and so far he is ignoring my emails. I have met Ben and he seems like a good guy and he may have very valid reasons why he can’t do anything with his event, but so far all he is saying is no.

The process for objections to this process has been set up by the Forest Service and has been followed by several people and organizations and that process has failed to stop this action.

It's time for something new and more publically visible.

 

[Oregonsledder]

If you think this won't really happen

For those of you who think my view is just speculation, you might want to read this thread on Sledspace. You will hear from someone who has been very involved in the official process.

It will happen guys, it's just how long will the roll out take, and what if anything will sledders do to try to stop it.

As of this post, I'm not finding much interest in doing anything but sending in emails.
Sad!

http://www.sledspace.com/showthread.php?3569-New-snow-park-in-Central-Oregon-Kapka

 

[Zrider]

Good job, OS. Sure hope everybody up in your area wakes up. We're going through the same kind of BS down here. Some land conservatory up in Truckee, CA is buying up parcels of land(with federal grant money no less) in order to shut down a lot of our prime riding areas.

It ain't good, pal.

Keep charging!

 

[Oregonsledder]

Good job, OS. Sure hope everybody up in your area wakes up. We're going through the same kind of BS down here. Some land conservatory up in Truckee, CA is buying up parcels of land(with federal grant money no less) in order to shut down a lot of our prime riding areas.

It ain't good, pal.

Keep charging!

Thanks Z. I'm amazed at how the guys here are just accepting what's coming. No one has said what I state is incorrect, and there is nothing to worry about. Every time I suggest we band together to REALLY make our feelings known publicly, guys just cower to the corner and send emails. The definition of insanity is... doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different outcome!
As I have stated in other posts when the process of filing objections was first laid out years ago, it seemed reasonable to work within the process. We have seen that process fail for the snowmobilers and work for the skiers and Forest Service. We have VERY little time left to make any real impact.

We have an event coming up here in Bend, Sledfilm, which seems to be the PERFECT venue to make our position heard, but the organizer is not even willing to say why that’s not a good idea, and he is a sledder?? Maybe he is in bed with the Forest Service, who knows??

The out rage by riders here will be when they are shut out, and the time for outrage and action is now!

Are there no riders here in Central Oregon with a set of man berries?

 

[bholmlate]

We have a very similar thing happening in the Tahoe basin with the Forest service slowly closing off more and more land to the conservationists. The local club just went through another battle with the FS over the summer about more proposed closures in the area and were able to organize and present a united front which seemed to help for the time being.

I am all for reasonable conservation but when one side always seem to get the short end of the stick (the Snowmobilers) it doesn’t seem right. And your right most people scream and yell after it is too late because they were too busy thinking that the world revolves around them only to find out that it doesn’t when they can no longer ride in their favorite riding areas after they are closed off.

Good luck in your area sounds like the FS service has been pretty busy slowly implementing their plan so no one notices.

 

[t stone]

OS for president. I agree with you Larry. All we want to do is ride. See you at sled film brother.

Stone

 

[Oregonsledder]

OS for president. I agree with you Larry. All we want to do is ride. See you at sled film brother.

Stone

Thanks Troy. You and I know what we will miss!! Damn it!!

 

[sledhead162]

What can we do to fight this? I am a avid mountain rider, I ride every weekend in the tumalo/moon mt area. I am ready to do what ever possible to get this stopped. Sincerely, Tim Smith

 

[Oregonsledder]

What can we do to fight this? I am a avid mountain rider, I ride every weekend in the tumalo/moon mt area. I am ready to do what ever possible to get this stopped. Sincerely, Tim Smith

Tim, it is SO nice to now see some local riders willing to step up.
I'm looking for enough more guys like you who would be willing to make some kind of public visible statement at the up coming Sledfilm November 10th in Bend. The event organizer won't even respond to any suggestion of using that gathering of mountain riders at his event to make a stand against this serious reduction in our riding area. The process against his Forest Service, skier plan to close Dutchman and Tumalo to snowmobilers, has been to send letters and email to contacts that the Forest Service has set up. It’s obvious that process was set up so that they would win and we would lose.

It’s too late to do some quiet ineffective action. We need a LOUD outcry that is picked up by the local news media. The cameras were at Sledfilm last year so I feel we could get our position made clear that way. It’s going to take something like that to rattle the cage and make it clear WE WILL NOT STAND FOR ANY MORE REDUCTION IN OUR ACCESS TO OUR PUBLIC LANDS!

Tim, you should spread the word to your riding buddies and I would also encourage you and your buddies to go to Sledspace and put some pressure on Ben to get him and his Sledfilm event involved in the support of the mountain riding community. Here is the link to the thread on Sledspace. http://www.sledspace.com/showthread.php?3569-New-snow-park-in-Central-Oregon-Kapka

So far he is just ignoring the issue.
Thanks for your support and stay tuned!

 

[polaris dude]

So what is your plan? Are you going to oppose the new area? Or will you accept it and just try to keep them from closing anything else?

*note I'm totally for action, im just curious what your thinking we(as a community) should do.

 

[Oregonsledder]

So what is your plan? Are you going to oppose the new area? Or will you accept it and just try to keep them from closing anything else?

*note I'm totally for action, im just curious what your thinking we(as a community) should do.

There is no plan here locally as of this post. I'm trying to get some people to want to act, but most seem to be in denial.

I'm very surprised at the lack of concern!!

 

[deschutes]

Hello

The evil Ben here.

I want to clear a few things up....

1) SAWS has presented at every SLEDFILM event since it's inception, and has been invited to do so this year.

2) SAWS has had member sign up drives at most of the events (and on sledspace.com) over the years, and we have been responsible for a large number of new memberships.

3) The chair of SAWS was a major helper at the event last year, and a friend.

4) The Blue Ribbon Coalition has also been invited to speak at this years event.

5) Sledspace was responsible for helping to facilitate a decent sized donation to the BRC.

6) SLEDFILM and sledspace.com have donated large amounts of cash and considerable resources to fighting the exact snowpark/closure issue OS refers to.

7) Two individuals that are leading the anti-Kapka/Dutchman effort are business sponsors of SLEDFILM. I don't think they would sponsor an event that they didn't feel had riders best interests in mind.

8) I have an open invitation to any other legitimate group that is fighting for fair and equal access and snowmobilers rights to talk to me about presenting or being a part of SLEDFILM.

9) I have spent countless hours and resources fighting for and promoting snowmobilers in Oregon and elsewhere, never asking for anything in return.

Want a little proof? Go look at the Oregon forum (http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=152) you can see an urgent sticky post, as well as several follow-up posts, by me from FOUR YEARS AGO regarding this very issue. I believe I also posted it in other western sections on Snowest, working with Christopher to get Snowest involved.

This same information was posted on sledspace.com. I actually acquired a 40% off any order from Klim that I gave to a lucky letter writer to help spur comments and promote involvement.

I do and will work tirelessly to proactively support productive measures, based on facts, to keep riding areas open - and possibly even open up some currently closed areas.

 

[Oregonsledder]

Hello

The evil Ben here.

I want to clear a few things up....

1) SAWS has presented at every SLEDFILM event since it's inception, and has been invited to do so this year.

2) SAWS has had member sign up drives at most of the events (and on sledspace.com) over the years, and we have been responsible for a large number of new memberships.

3) The chair of SAWS was a major helper at the event last year, and a friend.

4) The Blue Ribbon Coalition has also been invited to speak at this years event.

5) Sledspace was responsible for helping to facilitate a decent sized donation to the BRC.

6) SLEDFILM and sledspace.com have donated large amounts of cash and considerable resources to fighting the exact snowpark/closure issue OS refers to.

7) Two individuals that are leading the anti-Kapka/Dutchman effort are business sponsors of SLEDFILM. I don't think they would sponsor an event that they didn't feel had riders best interests in mind.

8) I have an open invitation to any other legitimate group that is fighting for fair and equal access and snowmobilers rights to talk to me about presenting or being a part of SLEDFILM.

9) I have spent countless hours and resources fighting for and promoting snowmobilers in Oregon and elsewhere, never asking for anything in return.

Want a little proof? Go look at the Oregon forum (http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=152) you can see an urgent sticky post, as well as several follow-up posts, by me from FOUR YEARS AGO regarding this very issue.

This same information was posted on sledspace.com. I actually acquired a 40% off any order from Klim that I gave to a lucky letter writer to help spur comments and promote involvement.

Ben it's good to see you respond here. All the activity you list above I'm sure is well intentioned, but so far has not stopped the Kapka project and most likely will not stop the rest of the plan to close Dutchman snopark and Tumalo to snowmobiling.

I have seen situations like this before, where activity is more important than results.
As long as the Central Oregon snowmobiling community is satisfied with the organizations you list above and their results on our behalf, we are going to lose access to high elevation riding.

Remember gang, the OSSA has already agreed to a plan (who knows the timing) to tie the completion of Kapka and the closure of Dutchman snopark to snowmobiles. SAWS has also not done anything that I can find to stop Kapka. Having them speak at Sledfilm, which might make your sponsors happy won’t do anything to stop the closure process.

 

[deschutes]

Ben it's good to see you respond here. All the activity you list above I'm sure is well intentioned, but so far has not stopped the Kapka project and most likely will not stop the rest of the plan to close Dutchman snopark and Tumalo to snowmobiling.

I have seen situations like this before, where activity is more important than results.
As long as the Central Oregon snowmobiling community is satisfied with the organizations you list above and their results on our behalf, we are going to lose access to high elevation riding.

Remember gang, the OSSA has already agreed to a plan (who knows the timing) to tie the completion of Kapka and the closure of Dutchman snopark to snowmobiles. SAWS has also not done anything that I can find to stop Kapka. Having them speak at Sledfilm, which might make your sponsors happy won’t do anything to stop the closure process.

The person you want to have speak has addressed the event in the past and is the sponsor I am referring to. I don't think you have all the facts.

You are wrong about SAWS here and on sledspace. SAWS is a great organization that has done a lot for snowmobiling.

Also, you might want to go talk to the people at Elk Lake Resort - they make their living from snowmobilers accessing the resort in the winter from Dutchman. They could give you a good perspective and some facts as well. They have a lot to lose with any Dutchman closure or restriction and have been very involved in the process.

 

[Oregonsledder]

The person you want to have speak has addressed the event in the past and is the sponsor I am referring to. I don't think you have all the facts.

You are wrong about SAWS here and on sledspace. SAWS is a great organization that has done a lot for snowmobiling.

Also, you might want to go talk to the people at Elk Lake Resort - they make their living from snowmobilers accessing the resort in the winter from Dutchman. They could give you a good perspective and some facts as well. They have a lot to lose with any Dutchman closure or restriction and have been very involved in the process.

Ben you are correct about one thing and that is Elk Lake Lodge. They put it up for sale a week after the news announced that Kapka will be built (at least that is when I heard it was posted for sale). There is a fact for ya!

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSit....aspx?LID=17777916&SRID=2881117307&StepID=101

 

[deschutes]

Ben you are correct about one thing and that is Elk Lake Lodge. They put it up for sale a week after the news announced that Kapka will be built. There is a fact for ya!

Wrong again... It is one non-operating partner selling his share, and he has been trying to get rid of it for awhile. Mitch, the operating owner, and the one involved in the Dutchman effort, is staying on. Again, you don't have the facts OS.

Email from Mitch September 30th:

One of my partners is selling his share...I will still be the operating owner.

Mitch

 

[Oregonsledder]

Wrong again... It is one non-operating partner selling his share, and he has been trying to get rid of it for awhile. Mitch, the operating owner, and the one involved in the Dutchman effort, is staying on. Again, you don't have the facts OS.

Email from Mitch September 30th:

One of my partners is selling his share...I will still be the operating owner.

Mitch

I don't claim to know the details about the for sale listing, but it was first seen by me a week or so after the public announcement that Kapka was to be built in 2013. Your comment seems to confirm the timing. I also know that the fight over Dutchman has been going on for years and that you won’t often sell a property like that in a few months. They will most likely be in trouble when snowmobiles can’t access Dutchman and I’m sure they know what has been going on concerning the issue. Spin it any way you want, all the stars are lining up for a Dutchman closure and seeing the listing for Elk Lake Resort, is just one more indication that many feel the days are numbered.

Ben my focus and only agenda is to try to find a way to light a fire under someone who can help stop the closure of Dutchman and Tumalo. You seem to be more concerned about how you look relative to this discussion, than anything else. By the way Ben that isn’t trashing you, it’s simply an observation.

 

[deschutes]

I don't claim to know the details about the for sale listing, but it was first seen by me a week or so after the public announcement that Kapka was to be built in 2013. Your comment seems to confirm the timing. I also know that the fight over Dutchman has been going on for years and that you won’t often sell a property like that in a few months. They will most likely be in trouble when snowmobiles can’t access Dutchman and I’m sure they know what has been going on concerning the issue. Spin it any way you want, all the stars are lining up for a Dutchman closure and seeing the listing for Elk Lake Resort, is just one more indication that many feel the days are numbered.

Ben my focus and only agenda is to try to find a way to light a fire under someone who can help stop the closure of Dutchman and Tumalo. You seem to be more concerned about how you look relative to this discussion, than anything else. By the way Ben that isn’t trashing you, it’s simply an observation.

Go look at the listing you posted. It has been for sale since February, and shopped around for quite some time before that. As for the timing of my email, it was in response to Elk Lake Resort becoming a sponsor/promoter of SLEDFILM, which they definitely wouldn't do if they were dumping it or had concerns. They have attended the Forest Service meetings, are on the user group committee, etc. and have been involved in the fight for five years or more. You seem to just be realizing that something is going on - where was this passion 4-5 years ago.

If you really want to make a difference, use some money out of your own pocket (as I have in the past) and make a FOI request of the Forest Service, hire an attorney, sue the government, donate to others that are trying to make a difference, start a land use 501C3, etc. Quit complaining about people that are fighting the same fight in their own way, just because you disagree with their methods or strategy.

 

[RickPDX]

OS I am with you! Elk Lake Resort has been for sale off and on for years.
I started Expand Dutchman, I got over 1,000 signers to expand Dutchman instead of Kapka for the DEIS. The Forest Service would not count them!
I have the documents and working on a appeal at this time.
Yes OSSA said we would give up Dutchman if Kapka is built, they have now backed away from that statement, but it still hurts us.
One of the major problems is that OSSA is the state organization, but they represent less than 20% of the sledders!
We need a expanded Dutchman to preserve our Tumalo Mountain riding!

Ben
None of us has the money to fight Wild Wilderness! they have millions!
The best way to stop this is with the public's support! We need to get this out in the newspaper and at shows like yours. The forest Service said at a meeting over a year ago (That we are going to build Kapka and you will learn to love it) the DEIS was just a show!
The only way we can stop them is with a active support, that makes its voice heard.

 

[Oregonsledder]

OS I am with you! Elk Lake Resort has been for sale off and on for years.
I started Expand Dutchman, I got over 1,000 signers to expand Dutchman instead of Kapka for the DEIS. The Forest Service would not count them!
I have the documents and working on a appeal at this time.
Yes OSSA said we would give up Dutchman if Kapka is built, they have now backed away from that statement, but it still hurts us.
One of the major problems is that OSSA is the state organization, but they represent less than 20% of the sledders!
We need a expanded Dutchman to preserve our Tumalo Mountain riding!

Ben
None of us has the money to fight Wild Wilderness! they have millions!
The best way to stop this is with the public's support! We need to get this out in the newspaper and at shows like yours. The forest Service said at a meeting over a year ago (That we are going to build Kapka and you will learn to love it) the DEIS was just a show!
The only way we can stop them is with a active support, that makes its voice heard.

Thanks Rick. I agree there needs to be a public stand that will get the attention of the Forest Service and possibly Greg Waldons office.

Ben and his interests are a waste of time. He and his sponsors are only interested in there self serving interests.

If you want a waste of time, go to Sledspace and try to discuss possible solutions to this matter. All you will find, is Ben and his sponsor buddies ignore you and berate you if you suggest anything outside of their comfort zone.

Rick it’s nice to see there are a few people here locally who understand what’s going on, and are not encumbered by self serving interests, that are in conflict with the fight to keep our access to our public lands.

We are in a fight with the government and the process THEY set up to appeal Kapka is like a card dealer first looking at the deck and then dealing out hands. Only the dealer will win.