Your thoughts on the invasion?

Jean-Luc Picard

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Fact check pretty please before you repeat Trumps Propaganda

Oh, Mafesto. I think I just threw up a little. I put it in your Pres. thread, but I feel obligated to post it here too.

Time for a new rant...

So, a Caravan of "really bad people" some of whom are of middle eastern descent" according to the president (he was called out & admitted he had no evidence of this).

  • Last year ~300,000 people were apprehended at the southern border. Of those 300k, only 80 individuals were found to be of Middle eastern origins. That equates to 2 2/3 people out of 10,000 or 0.026%.
  • The total percent of middle eastern immigrants amounts to around 2.5% of our total annual immigration. Meaning if they're trying the southern border, they're doing it 100 times less successfully than any other means. There are already a lot more Muslims here than 3 out of 10,000 people. If you're so concerned about being overrun by muslims, maybe you should let more hispanics in. They're obviously trying a lot harder & generally speaking, share a lot more of your supposed values.
  • Most of the folks in this caravan are fleeing the rapists & gangs that Trump says are trying to get into our country.
  • Nearly all of the people in the caravan have no idea what the difference between the democrats & the republicans. This is not being orchestrated by the Left. This is happening because of a humanitarian crisis. That's what creates refugees.
  • The caravan is not looking to cross the border illegally. They want to apply for asylum in the United States. Not a crime. How & why did your ancestors (not to mention DJT's) come into the country?
  • Previous similar caravans (of around 5000) that started at the southern border of Mexico, usually result in about 1000-1500 actually reaching the southern US border. Which will not "overrun" the country. (See above - 300,000 apprehended last year - Meaning ~1,000 a day). It may create a slight surge for a day to a week. You want to see what it looks like to be overrun by refugees, go to any country bordering Syria.
What this whole thing boils down to is Trump trying to tap into the same irrational fears that got him elected in order to keep the republicans in power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Eastern_Americans
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/23/65991...ravan-tax-cuts
 

turboless terry

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This whole thing is a joke and being paid for by the dems somewhere and somehow. Why don't you go back through clips and see what actual refugees look like that are down and out and displaced. They aren't laughing and giggling like these. I bet they weren't burning flags like these. If they were truly in need they would stop in Mexico for help. These people are also showing total disregard for any rules or laws. I get tired of listening to people make excuses. We can't let them in. Stop them
Do not let them in. What ever it takes. This is another sham by the liberals trying to make trump look bad. It will backfire on them. We can't take care of everyone. How many are you taking to your house??? I think I already know that answer. We need to let people in on merit not people we have to take care of the rest of their lives. I don't care what happened years ago. This isn't years ago. This is now. Stop making incentives and help them in there own country.
I would also pound on Mexico for this. How is it they can go 1500 miles , through Mexico, to get here and nobody stops them. Apparently Mexico is a joke or they don't want to stop them. I would address that also.
Legal immigration on merit that want to assimilate. Not this.
 

revrider07

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Well said turbo I'm tired of sharing my wealth with freeloading immigrants. A country must have borders and laws. We need to start looking at our own residents and help them. By sharing with the world we will only be dragged down to there standard.
 

Mafesto

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The next to last resort would be military force, but that must be on the table.
The last resort would be our own citizens protecting our border.

I hope they can be turned back before it comes to that.

I propose using fire hoses detering them with water spray, and if that fails to deter them, perhaps fill water trucks with sewage and spray them with that.

Hopefully, something short of lethal force yeilds results.
The left would turn this into a media circus if it comes down to lethal force.
Likewise, the left will spin this politically if we allow them in.

Are there genuine asylum seekers among this group? I'm sure there are.
But we're a country that is generous enough to open our arms and welcome those who come through the legal system. To expect us to turn a blind eye to an invasion like this is utter absurdity.
 

BLITZKRIEG

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[*]Most of the folks in this caravan are fleeing the rapists & gangs that Trump says are trying to get into our country.
80% of the migrants in the caravan are male and under the age of 30, you can see this in any video footage of the caravan. These males need to stand up and fight for they're country instead of fleeing.
 

BLITZKRIEG

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So many videos from when the dems were in power are surfacing of Obama, Hillary, Feinstein, etc talking about making the border secure.
Now that the repubs are in power the dems have done a 180 on there border stance....but why?
Maybe its because they have lost the working class voters to Trump and are so desperate for votes they are willing to exploit our laws to gain votes from these "asylum seekers" once citizenship is gained?!?
 

snowracer21

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As someone who has quite some knowledge in this area...I'll address your comments.

Last year ~300,000 people were apprehended at the southern border. Of those 300k, only 80 individuals were found to be of Middle eastern origins. That equates to 2 2/3 people out of 10,000 or 0.026%.
Correct, here's a list of apprehensions by by country of citizenship for FY 2017

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/f...p-apprehensions-citizenship-sector-fy2017.pdf

What's not shown, is those individuals who were apprehended at the border, who have direct ties to terrorism... unfortunately, those stats are not disseminated to the public.


If you're so concerned about being overrun by muslims, maybe you should let more hispanics in. They're obviously trying a lot harder & generally speaking, share a lot more of your supposed values.
The US issues thousands of temporary visas to "hispanics". We issue thousands of temporary visa to Central American countries every year. We also issue thousands of immigrant visas as well to those same countries.

Most of the folks in this caravan are fleeing the rapists & gangs that Trump says are trying to get into our country.
Yes, many Central American countries have problems with gangs/crime. However, those entering the US illegally have all been coached. They all claim the same thing, yet when pressed for specific details, their answers are hard to come by.

Also, if these individuals were looking to escape gang violence/crime, why is their intended destinations Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, Oakland, etc.?

[*]The caravan is not looking to cross the border illegally. They want to apply for asylum in the United States. Not a crime.
Many do cross the border illegally, though, which is a crime. I should mention that 100% of people from Central America DO NOT qualify for asylum in the US. In order to qualify for asylum in the US, the applicant "has a well-founded fear of future persecution on account of 'race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion." Notice this does NOT mention fleeing crime/violence. It specifically covers those who are persecuted by the government of their native country due to their political views, religion, etc.

I'm not denying the living conditions in many Central American countries is poor, however, if that's the measure to bring in asylees/refugees, then we better start in Africa first.

Make no mistake about it, the number one draw to the US for Central American males, is the economic opportunities. This is followed closely by state's social welfare programs, which attracts women/family units.

Lastly, anyone with an ECON101 textbook can explain to you the negative effects caused by an influx of low-skilled/uneducated individuals. The US allows thousands of people with these characteristics to immigrate legally every year. This process must be followed in order to keep economies balanced.



What this whole thing boils down to is Trump trying to tap into the same irrational fears that got him elected in order to keep the republicans in power.
Trump was elected because millions of Americans wanted to secure our borders, and curtail illegal entries. Americans are also sick of billions of their tax dollars going towards housing, and transporting illegal aliens FURTHER INTO THE US


Yes, under the Obama administration, those who crossed the border illegally were not returned to their country of citizenship, but instead transported via commercial carrier from the US/MEX border, to their intended destination in the US.

What Americans SHOULD be in fear of relating to illegal aliens, is health concerns. Many individuals from Central American regions with poor living conditions carry communicable diseases that have been eradicated in the US. Those individuals (children) may now end up in a classroom with your child. Individuals (including children) who legally immigrant to the US receive a health screening for public health concerns, and also receive vaccines to ensure the general public's well-being.
 

snowracer21

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80% of the migrants in the caravan are male and under the age of 30, you can see this in any video footage of the caravan. These males need to stand up and fight for they're country instead of fleeing.
I agree with your statement, but I want to add, for the most part, males from Central America who come to the US illegally generally are in search for work. In contrast, women with children are attracted by the social welfare programs.

In my humble opinion, I'd rather have those who can support theirselves, rather than those who will become a public charge.
 

Jean-Luc Picard

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Thank you Snowracer21 for actually giving a s&^* about what you say & putting some thought into it. I may not agree always with you, but I respect you.

Yes things are different than they were 100, 200, 300 years ago. Maybe the Indians should have been concerned about their borders. If you fled your home, in some third world country because of fear of death for your children, where would you want to go? Mexico, where the drug cartels control 1/3 of what goes on?

Mostly what I see here is a bunch of bigoted folks who will buy whatever line of crap Trump sells them. It literally makes my stomach turn to hear people referring to the suffering of others as has been written in this thread. I know I'm not the popular opinion here & I'll get called a libtard & I don't give a s&^% what else. Its a humanitarian issue, not a political one if you ask me. I'm a staunchly independent voter who would never have considered voting for either Hillary or Trump. About the last President I have much confidence in was Reagan, and he pushed some things a bit far as well.



So, feel free to call me names. I'd love to have some more immigrants in my neighborhood.
 
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Jean-Luc Picard

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Yes, under the Obama administration, those who crossed the border illegally were not returned to their country of citizenship, but instead transported via commercial carrier from the US/MEX border, to their intended destination in the US.

Something you won't hear from right wing pundits - Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any President until Trump, earning him the title in some circles of "Deporter-in-Chief."
 

turboless terry

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Mostly what I see here is a bunch of bigoted folks who will buy whatever line of crap Trump sells them. It literally makes my stomach turn to hear people referring to the suffering of others as has been written in this thread. I know I'm not the popular opinion here & I'll get called a libtard & I don't give a s&^% what else. Its a humanitarian issue, not a political one if you ask me. I'm a staunchly independent voter who would never have considered voting for either Hillary or Trump. About the last President I have much confidence in was Reagan, and he pushed some things a bit far as well.



So, feel free to call me names. I'd love to have some more immigrants in my neighborhood.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if your meaning me but am assuming you are. I guess I am a bigot if that means:
Legal immigration by merit.
Not wanting people here that are a drain on our social programs.
Wanting to have people that assimilate and learn our values and our language and abide by our laws.
Don't want mobs overrunning our country at will like shown in Mexico.
Being able to go to a cash machine and not press 3 for English
Feeling sorrier for people in our country.
Don't want incentives to keep this stuff going.
And yes, I want a wall.
And yes they drive down wages.
Eventually you run out of other people's money. The Democrats want this to add to their base. They don't want people thriving. They don't want to people seeing self sufficiency works.They want to keep people down and in need so they are up on their pedestal and you are always in the need. That keeps them always in the ruling class. That is a bunch of the hate for Donald Trump.

I also wont say anything on here that I wouldn't say to your face. That is another big problem in this world. People who flip you off will key your car or trash someone's rig because of a bumper sticker. That is left and it is happening. There is apparently some wacko right wing, assuming trump supporter, delivering bombs.
So I don't call names. Might poke fun but that is legal.
 
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BLITZKRIEG

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I don't know if your meaning me but am assuming you are. I guess I am a bigot if that means:
All you have to say is, "I disagree" with ANY LEFTIST VIEW(S) and you are by default a "right wing racist hate speech white fear mongering kkk bigot," according to the left.
You can't even have a debate followed by consensus of the better option from the debate...without them defaulting to label you a...(see above list).:face-icon-small-sho
To reiterate: If you don't agree to letting the caravan into the states you are a racist.
 

Jean-Luc Picard

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I'm not saying "allow the caravan in." But if they approach the border & ask for asyslum, then yes, process their claims. We need law & order, which goes for the little guy all the way to the oval office. Presidents have tread all over the constitution since at least the Korean war and we have allowed them to do it. Congress isn't any better. Right now the Republicans & Democrats are so stuck in their own camp nothing ever gets solved. Anything passed strictly along party lines is a bad idea. That being said, I recognize both sides have become completely unwilling to cross party lines to the point of the garbage that happened with Kavanaugh. Clarence Thomas was a near unanimous vote 25 years ago after a scandal.



Anyway.. I digress. Immigration needs a solution that the country can at least come to some kind of consensus on, but right now it seems to be "build a wall" versus "welcome them all." Truth be told, I'm in the latter camp, but I'm willing to compromise & consider other options. It seems many are not on either side. I'm a dyed in the wool Libertarian.
 

BLITZKRIEG

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I'm willing to bet that the left is behind these bombs trying to make the right look bad so conveniently right before election.
Agreed.
With the daily crazy show the Left puts on they’re doing a great job of chasing theyre own voters away in disgust.
So why would any right extremist want to discourage that.....they wouldn’t.
 
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