XPS injection oil price increase and lack of availability?

NHRoadking

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Mercury is in the oil business? Okay 👌
Boating Magazine published an article in 2017 about the making of boating oils. Here's an excerpt from the article by an author who visited Mercury Marine:

Boating Magazine - How Marine Oil Is Made​

An inside look at how marine oil is made.
  • By Charles Plueddeman
Updated:
July 18, 2017
:

No original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) of marine engines are in the business of manufacturing their own oil. That’s handled by a specialized lubricant formulator, in this case a business located in Minnesota.
 

NHRoadking

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Here's an article from 2014 in Snowmobile.com about snowmobile oil. Here's an excerpt:

One thing they do share is the unique demand they put on the engine’s oiling requirements. So, if they are all engineered differently how do you blend oil for one of these high-tech engines, no less all three? That’s a good question, and that’s why the manufacturers turn to custom oil blenders to develop oil that works with their particular technology.




Why OEMs Make Their Own Two-Stroke Snowmobile Oil​

Story by Snowmobile.com Photos by Jerry Bassett, Polaris, Arctic Cat, Ski-Doo Oct. 14, 2014
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MAKING ENGINES RUN HOTTER, FASTER AND LONGER

THE MOST BASIC JOB OF TWO-STROKE ENGINE OIL IS TO PREVENT WEAR IN THE CYLINDER. TWO-STROKE OIL MUST ALSO MIX WITH FUEL, KEEP ENGINE INTERNALS CLEAN AND FREE OF CARBON AND PERFORM NUMEROUS OTHER CRITICAL FUNCTIONS DEPENDING ON APPLICATION.
BEFORE 2006 THESE OIL DUTIES WERE PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD. TODAY, HOWEVER, OIL’S JOB HAS BEEN MADE MORE CHALLENGING WITH GROUNDBREAKING TECHNOLOGIES SUCH AS E-TEC DIRECT INJECTION, C-TEC2 INJECTION AND CLEANFIRE INJECTION. WHILE ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT SYSTEMS PROVIDE THE SAME END RESULT – A CLEAN, EPA-COMPLIANT TWO-STROKE ENGINE – NONE OF THEM WORK THE SAME TO GET THOSE RESULTS. ONE THING THEY DO SHARE IS THE UNIQUE DEMAND THEY PUT ON THE ENGINE’S OILING REQUIREMENTS. SO, IF THEY ARE ALL ENGINEERED DIFFERENTLY HOW DO YOU BLEND OIL FOR ONE OF THESE HIGH-TECH ENGINES, NO LESS ALL THREE? THAT’S A GOOD QUESTION, AND THAT’S WHY THE MANUFACTURERS TURN TO CUSTOM OIL BLENDERS TO DEVELOP OIL THAT WORKS WITH THEIR PARTICULAR TECHNOLOGY.
WHAT’S IN THE FORMULA?
https://www.snowmobile.com/products...troke-snowmobile-oil-1875.html#fb-comment-box
Two-stroke oil may look like one homogeneous fluid, but it’s actually made up of a number of different components. Oil base stock makes up the majority of any two-stroke snowmobile oil – about 25-35 (and in some cases up to 40) percent – and the base stock determines what type of oil it is – Mineral, Semi-Synthetic or Synthetic. Mineral oils such as Group I and II are products of the petroleum distillation process. There are two types of synthetics used in two-stroke engine oils, one made from highly refined Group III base stocks while Group IV synthetics are Polyalphaolefins (PAO) and are constructed through a chemical process. Generally, a semi-synthetic is a blend of mineral base stock with no more than 30 percent of synthetic base stock and, while semi-synthetic oils can be good, they can also be deceiving since there’s no way to know how much of the blend is actually synthetic (though the industry has a gentlemen’s agreement that a semi-synthetic blend should be at least 10 percent synthetic).
Lab Technician Oil Blending
Lab technicians carefully adding fluids to make up a test blend. This process takes a lot of experience and partnerships with additive vendors to make it all work in creating a brand’s OEM-specific two-stroke oil.

[TR]
[TD]Oil By The Numbers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Base ingredients used in modern two-stroke oil[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]* 25-35 Percent Oil base stock (in some cases can be up to 40 percent)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]* 30-Plus Percent Semi-synthetic blend of mineral base stock — more than 30-percent of synthetic base stock[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]* 15-25 Percent Solvent used for “pour-ability” in a two-stroke blend[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]* 15-25 Percent Polyisobutylene (PIB) used for lubricity[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]* 10 Percent By “gentleman’s agreement” a semi-synthetic blend should be at least 10-percent synthetic[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]* 5-10 Percent The actual specific additive package specifically designed for a specific sled engine[/TD]
[/TR]


Solvent, which makes up about 15-25 percent of a two-stroke blend, helps two-stroke oil pour at cold temperatures and helps it burn clean (helps oil mix with fuel inside the engine) while reducing smoke, but it hurts lubricity. Polyisobutylene (PIB) is a slippery substance often used in two-stroke oil to increase lubricity. PIBs make up another 15-25 percent of two-stroke snowmobile oil. PIBs also reduce smoke and can be sticky after they are burned, leading to additional problems in modern engines, but they are a cheaper alternative to using more expensive synthetic PAOs. Finally, the additive package makes up 5-10-percent of the blend. This is where two-stroke oils can really be tailored to an individual application. Additive systems are typically designed to keep components such as ring lands clean, but they are the most expensive components in the formula and can significantly increase the final cost of the oil if not chosen carefully.
Although additives are a small portion of the overall blend, they play a huge role in how the oil “works.” Common two-stroke snowmobile oil additives include dispersants, detergents, corrosion inhibitors, anti-wear elements and pour point depressants. When they engineer oil, OEMs spend most of their time dialing in the additive package for their engine application.
“To achieve the outstanding performance and reliability level of the Rotax 800R E-TEC, we had to also develop an oil that could match the engine’s unique requirements,” says Mischa Zimmerman, engine development project leader at BRP. “High-tech two-stroke engines, like the direct-injected E-TEC, require oils with specific formulas to reduce friction, heat and carbon deposits, and XPS does that with a special additive package like no other existing oil has. That is why we so strongly recommend it.”
Snowmobile Oil Components
The different bottles show the different components that make up a blend. They are mostly clear – even the base oil – until specific additives and the dye go in, giving the oil its brand-specific tint.
It is far more important to the health of your engine to have an OEM-approved additive package than any other component, including such things aftermarket companies lean on to sell their oils such as synthetic base stocks.
Snowmobile Oil Standards
There are no two-stroke oil standards for snowmobile engines and none of the two-stroke ratings currently out there apply to modern snowmobile engine technology. This is because they are based on JASO ratings that were last updated in 2004.
Snowmobile Oil Dyno Testing
Extensive dyno testing and an OEM’s field-testing ensure that new oil blends meet each sled manufacturer’s standards.
“Snowmobile technology has gone from simple carburetors to sophisticated Cleanfire fuel injection, exhaust valves and oil pump all being controlled by the ECU,” says Polaris engineer Joe Laurin. “There are no industry standards for snowmobile oil. Polaris has set our own oil quality standards that maximize the performance and duty cycle of the engine while working with ever-changing and advancing technology.”
Current two-stroke oil standards are based on carbureted, non-exhaust valve two-stroke engine configurations found in generators, motorcycles and scooters that reflect the bulk of two-stroke engine use worldwide. For example, the much-touted JASO testing uses a Suzuki SX800R generator engine and a Honda AF27 scooter engine. Both engines are more than a quarter century old, carbureted, non-exhaust valve, single cylinder air-cooled engines. These engines used as a baseline for certification are far-removed from the technology found in a modern, liquid-cooled, fuel injected, exhaust valve-equipped, high-RPM snowmobile engine.
Oil Technician Wrist Pin Inspection
A technician inspects a wrist pin bearing based on standards established by the Coordinated Research Council, which sets basic ratings for inspecting engine parts.
Moreover, differences in engine technologies make it impossible to certify snowmobile oil to one standard. In fact, laboratory tests of all four OEM oils show they all use different formulas and additive packages. Some may have a goal of less smoke, some may want to protect specific engine components and some focus on maximum engine longevity.
“There are a lot of Yamaha two-stroke engines still on the trails,” says Steve Friedrich of Yamaha Motor Corporation. “When we develop lubricants for Yamaha engines they go through an extensive approval process focused on long-term reliability and durability. That is the reason all those sleds are still running strong.”
Is OEM Really Better?
Focused development is the difference between OEM and aftermarket oil. If the off-the-shelf oil were good enough the OEMs would simply co-brand or recommend that instead of spending millions to develop their own specialized blends. Anyone can blend and market a “snowmobile oil,” but there is no industry regulating body to protect the consumer. So you don’t know what you’re buying. Each OEM has a unique blend to keep its vehicle performing at its best to maximize the customer experience. For one OEM the target might be exhaust valve cleanliness, another might want special sacrificial wear elements that add protection in lean burn situations and another’s priority might be easy starting at -30 degrees.
Arctic Cat CTEC2 Oil Performance
An illustration of the superior cold flow property of Arctic Cat’s C-TEC2 oil, where various oils were chilled to -30 and then allowed to dribble in the flow test to see how much quicker the CTEC2 flowed down the tube. One of the goals with CTEC2 was better cold pull for easier starting.
“As the engineers who developed the all-new Arctic Cat C-TEC2 600 engine with Dual-Stage Injection, our performance and durability demands of the oil are extremely high,” says Kim Chervestad, two-stroke Engineer at Arctic Cat. “The oil has to deliver outstanding protection against wear; provide optimum detergency to keep the engine components and power valves clean; emit the lowest amount of exhaust smoke and odor; and provide the easiest cold-starting in the industry. This is why we say with great confidence, that after a four-year development period to identify the unique oil requirements of this engine, C-TEC2 is the only synthetic oil approved for the new C-TEC2 600 engine.”
Arctic Cat CTEC2 Synthetic Oil
Each snowmobile manufacturer offers unique branding and packaging of its sled-specific two-stroke oils. Cat’s C-TEC2 48-ounce container is easy pouring, while its bright green packaging identifies it as the oil of choice for the new C-TEC2 600cc direct injection twin.
OEM oil is co-engineered with the snowmobile and can be considered “original equipment” to the sled. With advanced technologies such as E-TEC, C-TEC2 and Cleanfire, switching to an aftermarket oil is a significant change in how the snowmobile was designed to operate. The oil you use affects the engine performance for any given duty cycle and performance of the engine and using an OEM oil gives your snowmobile the best chance of operating as it was intended by the manufacturer and the longest operating life.
 
Last edited:
Dec 22, 2013
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Mercury is in the oil business? Okay 👌
Wording wording wording. I know they don't actually manufacture the oil. Was out commercial fishing with spotty service and just trying to give some association since most people don't know who quicksilver is.

As far as warranty, I'd think it'd be hard for them to deny warranty if an oil meets their specs and they can't provide you with any oil. But I guess it depends on how good of dealer you have🤷‍♂️
 

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stocksucks!!

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all i can say is
lets let OIL guys do the oil thing and sled and watercraft guys to them..
AMSOIL,lucas,koltz,ipone just to name a few.
i personally have only ran amsoil dominator in my skidoos 2015 t3 5200km, 2018 g4 850 5600km, 2020.5 turbo 850 4800km, 2021 tubo 850 1600km
one engine in the 2018 and that was a computer failure at 2200km they spent 11000.00 on warranty for that one. oil was and has never been an issue.
also amsoil is available no problem with production.
 
Mar 15, 2018
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As far as warranty, I'd think it'd be hard for them to deny warranty if an oil meets their specs and they can't provide you with any oil. But I guess it depends on how good of dealer you have🤷‍♂️
Many years ago (when I bought my 1999 powder special) I wanted to try something other than CAT oil and was considering an oil that, IIRC was made by shell and was TCW3 compatible. was told by many that anything other than CAT oil would void my warranty. I call the 800 number for the oil I was considering and asked about that. I was told that, in order for a manufacturer to void a warranty they have to PROVE that the oil caused the failure. In the case of their nail, they "said" that should a situation arise that all the customer had to do was contact them at this number and they would take AC to court I they refused warranty for being this oil.
 
Oil threads are so wonderful, it’s amazing so many just ignore engineering specifications and think that a “brand name” change is going to blow up their sled. Read anything from companies that do oil analysis and they’ll all tell you the same thing “meet the spec… run it”.

And people stating not running OEM oil that meets specification will void your warranty are blowing hot air….

Run what you want that meets the engineered spec as everything else is BS…

Ask the OEM’s what their margins are and it’ll all make sense…
 

Norona

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I talked with ski doo engineers specifically on this and they can tell what oil you have run in the sled, even if you refill the tank after the fact. They test every brand and know the color etc and if they don't know they can reverse engineer it and get it pretty close to know with the major companies.Yes they are super nerds. That said they have never void an engine due to type of oil. However I also spent a day at the xps oil factory and there are extreme differences, I was blown away! It would be pretty simple if you ran a specific different oil and your sled blew up, but that will not happen, it is more the blow by and different additives etc that can cause damage that over time can cause a failure, they tested amsoil and an engine blew in 50 hrs on the dyno, even they could not beleive it, did it again and 72 hours, I said what about the amsoil ad that says it is better than xps and is stronger, they siad guys can say anything. They also said you can go to your fav oil shop grab two bottle of the same castrol oil and test them and they are different, companies are always changing their concoction to make it better or use different additives to spend less and get more. One thing i did learn about was that the type of oil you start with is very important there are many levels, xps starts with a very high level that is synthetic, and adds expensive additives etc to make a premium oil, they dont spend hardly any money on advertising, I was an ambassador with xps which was a bigger role than my athlete with ski doo and they had never spent money that way before, I will say that yes the oil is more but it is due to the fact they use good stuff, of course they make money but what drives a lot of people is marketing as it works and companies that can pay levi lavalle a ton to promote are spending money that way so they are spending less on the product. So when you see big marketing hype that money is being spent on that over the oil itself as there is only so much in the budget. You can run any oil but it is not the same as xps, that is not to get you to buy it at all , but I was surprised how much they put into it. Reality is use what your budget or thought process is, just cause u used the oil and your sled never blew means jack **** and if u used something and it did blow up, that means jack ****, if i had to buy my oil or when i did, i used xps and bought bigger and bulk to pay less over going with another oil not recommended, the overall difference is not a lot. Lots of guys use other stuff cause they get a deal and I totally get that, and it makes sence so just do that and go ride! Just thought I would chime in as I am quite lucky to see the back story more than most, it was cool to see all the little blower engines they use to test as well everywhere blown up and bashed, ski doo has the biggest testing and they can pull an engine anywhere on the line and test it, so they have a big opportunity over an oil company that has to buy engines to test.
 
Dec 21, 2016
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Boating Magazine published an article in 2017 about the making of boating oils. Here's an excerpt from the article by an author who visited Mercury Marine:

Boating Magazine - How Marine Oil Is Made​

An inside look at how marine oil is made.
  • By Charles Plueddeman
Updated:
July 18, 2017
:

No original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) of marine engines are in the business of manufacturing their own oil. That’s handled by a specialized lubricant formulator, in this case a business located in Minnesota.

I was being sarcastic, c’mon now.
 

Ox

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all i can say is
lets let OIL guys do the oil thing and sled and watercraft guys to them..
AMSOIL,lucas,koltz,ipone just to name a few.
i personally have only ran amsoil dominator in my skidoos 2015 t3 5200km, 2018 g4 850 5600km, 2020.5 turbo 850 4800km, 2021 tubo 850 1600km
one engine in the 2018 and that was a computer failure at 2200km they spent 11000.00 on warranty for that one. oil was and has never been an issue.

also amsoil is available no problem with production.
Well, it would be if more people than normal were buying there.
 

Old Scud-doo

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I bought 6 gallons last week from my dealer of XPS. Was told that the next shipment he orders is going to cost him 20% more and that will be passed on to us. I personally have ran either Polaris VES or VES Racing in my Poo's or XPS in my Doo's. I just don't see the benefit of saving a few dollars and then having to fight for a warranty claim. Yes, I know they would have to PROVE the oil caused the failure but for what little I could save on another type of oil I don't see there being a big enough benefit in cost or in anything else to warrant it. Now if I could save 50% or get better performance and longevity....we would be having a different tune to sing.
 
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