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Wyoming skiers, snowmobilers debate over one square mile

S
Nov 21, 2007
113
16
18
NE WY
They are after a heck of a lot more than that:

"Of specific concern to Winter Wildlands Alliance is the North, or Atlantic, side of Two-Ocean Peak as well as Brooks Lake, Sublette Pass, Radio Tower Couloir, and Lava Mountain."

--- taken right out of their "Action Alert"

Read it here
 
R

Raff_9001M

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2007
317
89
28
More ski folks should use sleds to get to their "bounty". Besides, how many acres at ski resorts are lost every year to snowmobile access.
 
X

xc6rider

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2009
1,484
484
83
Iowa
More ski folks should use sleds to get to their "bounty". Besides, how many acres at ski resorts are lost every year to snowmobile access.


I take it you're being sarcastic? I hope.

Even though I'm a flatlander/midwesterner, I'm an avid snowmobiler, as well as skier. I can understand where the skier's are coming from, but why they feel they need to shut it down for sledders is beyond me! I was a National Ski Patrol member from '98-'09 and traveled west to not only ski but to sled during those times. To think they feel they don't have enough ground is crazy. Going back to my previous post..... "It takes a snowmobiler to rescue a skier"..........

I'm guessing these areas they are trying to close for skiers only, is accessible by sleds or heli's only...??? Am I off??

If in fact I am correct, who is going to rescue them in a situation of need, or why should they for that matter, if in fact the rescue requires snowmobiles?

Why can't the land just be shared?


Crap like this is why we all need to be deeply involved in our poor a$$ gov't system we have, that is continuing to rear-end us all. (Another topic)


EDIT: Raff, I think I just read your reply wrong. No harm intended!
 

bcriderm8

Member
Lifetime Membership
Feb 28, 2010
151
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18
n/c Iowa
what i dont understand from the beginning is why skiiers think they deserve priveledge over snowmobilers on any chunk of land?? Why they think they are so special? They need to GTFO!!!
 

tudizzle

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Mar 23, 2005
14,146
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COLORADO
skiers should be labeled white....sledders black


That way when these article get written they have to say the whites want to keep the blacks out of this area....its special....just for use by whites only.
 

stum1967

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Premium Member
Nov 26, 2007
467
715
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Central North Dakota
How about a new policy: When a skier or hiker is missing, no motorized vehicles can be used in their search, Including Helicopters, because they are noisy too.
 

bcriderm8

Member
Lifetime Membership
Feb 28, 2010
151
12
18
n/c Iowa
skiers should be labeled white....sledders black


That way when these article get written they have to say the whites want to keep the blacks out of this area....its special....just for use by whites only.

That is a perfect analogy!
 
R

Raff_9001M

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2007
317
89
28
I take it you're being sarcastic? I hope.

Even though I'm a flatlander/midwesterner, I'm an avid snowmobiler, as well as skier. I can understand where the skier's are coming from, but why they feel they need to shut it down for sledders is beyond me! I was a National Ski Patrol member from '98-'09 and traveled west to not only ski but to sled during those times. To think they feel they don't have enough ground is crazy. Going back to my previous post..... "It takes a snowmobiler to rescue a skier"..........

I'm guessing these areas they are trying to close for skiers only, is accessible by sleds or heli's only...??? Am I off??

If in fact I am correct, who is going to rescue them in a situation of need, or why should they for that matter, if in fact the rescue requires snowmobiles?

Why can't the land just be shared?


Crap like this is why we all need to be deeply involved in our poor a$$ gov't system we have, that is continuing to rear-end us all. (Another topic)


EDIT: Raff, I think I just read your reply wrong. No harm intended!

Sorry I was being very sarcastic. I enjoy both skiing and snowmobiling very much.
 

Dogmeat

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Feb 1, 2006
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Castle Rock, CO
if you want to ski move to f*cking europe with the rest of the alpine snobs and leave the west for the cowboys like it was meant to be.
 
3

3C Guiding

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
143
100
43
Laramie Wy.
Funny how they fail to mention the other side of the Highway (cliffs) is closed already and skied heavily,,,,,,,,Hmmmmmm


eveything on tog you can still ride on sleds. I have shut them up B4 in a meeting and will do it again. they have there ski areas that we can not ride sleds on. i will take the wilderness areas they dont want it looks like some sick riding areas but im not giving up the forest as well
 
3

3C Guiding

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
143
100
43
Laramie Wy.
they keep taking my post off there fb this is what i put.

It was in 2009 I was at a meeting in Dubois and the Togwotee Pass Backcountry Alliance wanted to close off Two Ocean, Angle Mountain and Sublet pass to snowmobilers. I was there as 10 High an extreme snowmobile film company it was before I have 3C Guiding LLC. The Adam GM of Brooks Lake Lodge and Jeff the GM of Togwotee Lodge was there as well with the snowmobile clubs head of the WSSA was there as well. It was about equal of people for sled and ski/snowboard. There were a lot of people mad about the whole thing on both sides. Everyone had their time to talk. When the meeting was over everyone agreed on helping with signs warning to watch for skiers be safe in the area. I have talked to the GMs of the lodges after that meeting the Alliance never contacted them they still want to take. Snowmobiles don’t want the loss of the area they love but will work with the nonmotorized to make it a better area.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
 

skidooboy

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Nov 26, 2007
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central lower michigan
from bcr

http://trib.com/news/state-and-regio...tml?mode=story



LANDER — Fremont County backcountry skiers have one spot in the winter they can always reach and ski in a day: Two Oceans Peak on Togwotee Pass.

Darran Wells makes the couple-hour drive several times a month to ski on his own. He also takes a Central Wyoming College outdoors education class to the area for lessons in backcountry skiing.

Situated near the road, it’s easy to ski to the base of the peak. And even when the snow isn’t very good elsewhere, it’s usually still good on Two Oceans Peak, Wells said.

The site is among the most popular for Fremont County skiers and, depending on the time of year, it brings skiers from Jackson and Teton County.

The area is also popular with snowmobilers. Wells and other skiers think the two forms of recreation don’t mix.

As U.S. Forest Service and Shoshone National Forest officials work to revise the forest’s management plan, some skiers are calling for a snowmobile ban near Two Oceans Peak.

“The two [sports] just generally speaking are not compatible for a place like that,” said Forrest McCarthy, public lands director for the Winter Wildlands Alliance.

The Forest Service is still in the early stages of its draft plan. It is currently soliciting comments.

Loren Poppert, recreation staff officer for the forest, said it’s too soon to say if any of the draft alternatives will include a snowmobile ban. He noted that public comment will be used to draft the plans.

Poppert said the Forest Service has been talking with people about the backcountry skiing-snowmobile issue for more than a year. It recently came up at one of the Forest Service’s public meetings.

Wells said he spoke with Forest Service officials about the snowmobile ban proposal and submitted a letter of request.

Wells serves as president of the Togwotee Pass Backcountry Alliance, a group of about 45 nonmotorized winter recreation enthusiasts.

The Two Oceans Peak area is just off the Continental Divide Trail, which is a huge draw for snowmobilers, Wells said. Skiers ski uphill in the trees but cross gullies to reach the top of the peak. Snowmobilers are sometimes above. Because the machines are so loud, snowmobilers often don’t realize skiers are below, Wells said. If they cut a slab of snow loose, causing an avalanche, it could bury skiers below.

Wells said the northwest face of Two Oceans Peak is high-probability avalanche terrain and slides on a regular basis, which he said he has seen firsthand, although, fortunately, no one was skiing in the area at the time. He noted that the issue isn’t having snowmobiles around the base of the peak, but up in the gullies.

It is an issue the Winter Wildlands Alliance has been trying to address for some time, according to McCarthy.

McCarthy said he was pleased with parts of the proposed forest management plan, which includes additional nonmotorized backcountry recreation areas — just none on Togwotee Pass.

Complicating the matter is the fact that the majority of the pass is on the Bridger Teton National Forest, but most of the Two Oceans Peak area is on the Shoshone.

“That is where some of the best skiing is [on the pass] and some of the best quality skiing for people from Fremont County,” McCarthy said.

Backcountry skiing in the area continues to grow in popularity, while snowmobiles continue to get more powerful. Snowmobile ruts can also be dangerous for skiers, he said.

McCarthy acknowledged skiers can access wilderness areas closed to snowmobiles. But those areas are so remote, it isn’t possible to ski them in a single day.

McCarthy said all he wants is about a square-mile closed to snowmobiles.

Snowmobilers aren’t receptive to banning any amount of terrain from their machines, said Michelle Buzalsky, president of the Riverton Sno-Goers.

“We want to keep everything open,” she said.

Buzalsky said she has ridden the Two Oceans Peak a few times and knows people who say it is their favorite location for snowmobiling.

She added that snowmobilers pay for trail grooming in the area but are happy to share.

“We feel their side is being very restrictive,” Buzalsky said. “They want to keep it to their little lonesome.”

Area clubs and local riders make it a point to educate others on etiquette and respecting other area users, Buzalsky said.

Most snowmobilers don’t ride the same lines skiers descend, Buzalsky said. Snowmobilers also are encouraged to take backcountry avalanche courses, which include reminders about being aware of other users who might be below or in the area.

Buzalsky said if there is a safety issue, it’s small enough that it could be resolved by both sides talking



Read more: http://trib.com/news/state-and-regio...#ixzz1lGhfioii
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45 skiers are going to tell thousands of snowmobilers where they can and cant ride....

I DONT THINK SO TIM!

what a bunch of crap. if they make this a no sledding zone, it should also ban the use of sleds and copters to rescue the skiers and boarders when they get hurt, or lost.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. ski
 
C

catweasel

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2010
221
136
43
Jackson, WY
www.jacksonholeargo.com
Skiers have millions of acres to ski in and around Jackson. Bridger Teton forest, where Togwotee is located, is 3.4 million acres. Other than some winter wildlife zones, it is all available to skiers. Wilderness areas, where no motorized travel is allowed, is 1.2 million acres. This is all theirs. IMO, all of Togwotee should be a snowmobile area.
 
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