viper loss of oil prime

[Motorbreath_]

My 14 Viper had a reflash from my Yamaha dealer to extend the time the sled,s oil light goes on and a limp mode initiates.

bholmlate is correct in saying the long wheelie after going over the top set my oil light, a stock viper would have no issue like that as it could not have made the climb let alone wheelie over the top for any distance. I rode my 15 stock for a few days 162"x 3"PC track - not impressive at all...

My 15 viper has the 162x3 PC, Pro-motion, Z-broz coupler, Lightweight hood, no headlight, Alternate Impact narrow front end, Roll over valve, Boost-It turbo, exit rear and front shocks - 619Lbs full of fuel. Handles good, narrow front end the best mod for handling.

For a comparison my 13 162x2.5 XM TSS Water to air turbo with no light parts was 589lbs full of fuel - easy to ride and pull and go.

My old 14 Viper 174x3 Racers edge skid, boost-it turbo, raptor shocks, Z-Broz 38"front end..... was 676lbs full of fuel - lots of power terrible in the trees - for me anyway.

My 174x3 T3 stock with sled shed cooker can is 549 full of fuel - easy to ride.

I have a job where I don't have much time to ride my sleds. If I could get more time to ride and I was younger Im sure the Vipers would get easier to ride, but for easy reliable power a boosted XM is hard to beat. My buddy has 6000 hard km on his 14 Aerocharged XM and it keeps going strong at 9lbs.

Just an honest opinion to help potential buyers.

How did you find the pro motion? Did it make it easier to pull over?

 

[stingray719]

Any one have a part number for the 160 spring?

Bought my last spring from Zbros as it is slightly longer (like the 2016 is).

Ask for 20-0-800-160 at http://www.zbrozracing.com/

 

[b_sandgren]

Thx for the spring part number. How much preload do you like to run with the new spring? I'm about 220 lbs. thx again

 

[K45]

How did you find the pro motion? Did it make it easier to pull over?

The Pro motion works good but the Alternate Impact narrow front end made the biggest difference I.M.H.O.

 

[roughrider99]

Losing oil while riding

I'm having issues with losing oil in my stock viper and I run a roll over valve, and I use that as my main kill switch. The problem is when I start playing in steep canyons and draws, my downhill turns, re entries and other circus act maneuvers in the trees, I easily pitch my sled enough that it will start pumping oil out the breather. The worst is when I do longer descents where I pitch the sled on my panel and push a ski down to control my speed, can't even right the sled back up to give the sled a chance to get oil in the tank as its too steep and some of the trees I gotta be sideways to fit thru.

Currently looking at automotive catch cans and adding some baffles

 

[Motorbreath_]

I'm having issues with losing oil in my stock viper and I run a roll over valve, and I use that as my main kill switch. The problem is when I start playing in steep canyons and draws, my downhill turns, re entries and other circus act maneuvers in the trees, I easily pitch my sled enough that it will start pumping oil out the breather. The worst is when I do longer descents where I pitch the sled on my panel and push a ski down to control my speed, can't even right the sled back up to give the sled a chance to get oil in the tank as its too steep and some of the trees I gotta be sideways to fit thru.

Currently looking at automotive catch cans and adding some baffles

I'm kind of worried.. Whats the point of having the "most maneuverable" 4 stroke sled if the sled don't like to be maneuvered? I hope I don't have any issues.
So do you believe the issue lies within the oil tank itself? If so, maybe some aftermarket company will catch on and try to find a fix..

 

[Mountaintech]

Lets look at this logically the Nytro /Viper engine is a dry sump system meaning the oil is in a tank verses the bottom of the motor. There are two oil pumps in the engine. the main pressure pump and what they call the scavenger pump in the bottom of the motor. the pressure pump feeds the engine and the sole purpose of the scavenger pump is to empty the case and feed the oil back into the tank. under most operating conditions the pressure pump is always pumping oil through the motor and the scavenger pump is always pumping oil back to the tank. Now lets tilt the sled vertical. Correct me if i am wrong but with the sled vertical the orientation of the motor is completely horizontal or even angled so the Head is below the sump in the bottom of the engine. I think everyone would agree if the sled is in this position the throttle would be pinned. This would suggested that the pressure side of the pump is at max pressure feeding the engine with oil. however the oil in the bottom of the motor is literally running away from the scavenger pump. So maximum oil is leaving the tank with no oil returning to the tank to complete the cycle. It doesn't take long at before the level of the tank drops below the pickup that is now on the side of the tank rather then the bottom due to the orientation of the sled. that is why it was important to baffle the inside of the tank but still under extreme conditions will not be able to help the fact that no oil is making it back to the tank from the scavenger pump. Its obvious at some point the pump will begin to suck air and loose prime and warning bells go off. You add to this the fact that i think a lot of people are/were running their vipers low on oil to help the fact it was leaking out the breather line and you have a lot of cases of people saying there is a huge issue of the loss of oil pressure.

I am guessing that it was not the moderate climb that put K45 into limp mode. it was the long wheelie with the throttle pinned that caused the motor to run out of oil. I would agree that this would be a huge issue if i rode my sled in vertical wheelie all the time. However i have seen a lot of vipers running huge chutes on Youtube and in the movies that don't seem to have any issues. I just don't see this issue being reason number 1 not to buy one when you understand the reason it happens.

Good write up to educate those that are not that familiar with the engine oil system. To add to it, the Viper and Nytro both use the same engine. The big problem with placement of the engine in the Viper chassis is that it is tilted back at a more severe angle. Not a problem for flatlanders, but mountain riding is a different story. The bottom of the engine should have been redesigned before placing this in the Viper chassis. It reminds me of the 03 RX1 MTN float bowl problem.

 

[roughrider99]

Does anyone know secret to boondockers vented no spill oil tanks? I'm gonna be trying a few different catch can ideas and venting to atmosphere instead of intake. Since the intake is in the nose on a deep day, theoretically the intake is a low pressure zone that could suck in oil from the breather line

 

[Motorbreath_]

Does anyone know secret to boondockers vented no spill oil tanks? I'm gonna be trying a few different catch can ideas and venting to atmosphere instead of intake. Since the intake is in the nose on a deep day, theoretically the intake is a low pressure zone that could suck in oil from the breather line

I've seen neglected 4 stroke sleds have air boxes full of ice and snow suck oil out of the oil tank. That air box is screaming for air, if you plug it up then its going to suck air from somewhere and thats usually the oil tank..

I don't think normal snow conditions would warrant the air box to suck oil out of the oil tank.

 

[roughrider99]

Well neglect is not the issue here, If that's what your saying, air box is clean, aware of problems with icing its not very often that the intake below the bumper has good airflow coming in. So there now there is a low pressure area under the hood and yes it makes a difference because I have had to clean snow from intakes on deep days to get it to start and run I have even had the sled flood out while starting if I didnt.. Also as mentioned before running the sled on angles to the point it loses prime

improved oil retention with a variation of a catch can, will solve a lot of my problems and delayed timer for low pressure switch (depending on what psi sets it off) and it should be fairly good

I don't hear of issues with boost it sleds and a buddy just got one so I will ride with him and see how it works for him

 

[Motorbreath_]

Well neglect is not the issue here, If that's what your saying, air box is clean, aware of problems with icing its not very often that the intake below the bumper has good airflow coming in. So there now there is a low pressure area under the hood and yes it makes a difference because I have had to clean snow from intakes on deep days to get it to start and run I have even had the sled flood out while starting if I didnt.. Also as mentioned before running the sled on angles to the point it loses prime

improved oil retention with a variation of a catch can, will solve a lot of my problems and delayed timer for low pressure switch (depending on what psi sets it off) and it should be fairly good

I don't hear of issues with boost it sleds and a buddy just got one so I will ride with him and see how it works for him

What turbo do you run? Why do you suppose boost it kits have no problems?

 

[roughrider99]

No turbo on my viper, had the mpi kit but sold it after riding a demo, 2 riding buddy's have boost it vipers and they been problem free

 

[Motorbreath_]

So your stock viper is having issues with losing oil and the boost-it turbo vipers are not?

I'm new to the viper, only bought it this summer. In what type of riding do you have issues?

What I'm seeing is some people have issues and others dont... not sure if their riding styles determine issues or if there is something else going on here.

 

[Motorbreath_]

http://viper.mountainperformance.com/Viper-Turbo-Engine-Oil-Return-Fittings-Kit_p_49.html

I think this is the kit MPI developed to fix the oil loss issue.. I'm just not sure if it is necessary on N/A Vipers, or even turbo Vipers other than MPI..

 

[roughrider99]

So your stock viper is having issues with losing oil and the boost-it turbo vipers are not?

I'm new to the viper, only bought it this summer. In what type of riding do you have issues?

What I'm seeing is some people have issues and others dont... not sure if their riding styles determine issues or if there is something else going on here.

Yes that's correct, I haven't rode with them since they bought their vipers so I can't comment on how they are riding them other than they are usually chute climbing with them.

 

[Winter Nutz]

is been a few years now that we have all had problems after a roll over, or stuck at the top of a chute, then after digging it out theres no oil pressure. its a pain.
I hear the sidewinder oil tanks can be put on the vipers and is working better. has anyone tried this? how has it worked? any truth to it bolting right onto the vipers?