Turbo or Big bore

[1madbird]

I have a 2013 pro that runs good and I want a little more power. I can’t afford a new sled so that’s not an option this year but I have found turbo kits for around $1500. A big bore will run me around $2500. I think the big bore will have better throttle response which is important for me mostly boondocking. The turbo kit is cheaper but not sure I can get the throttle response I want out of it. What’s everyone’s thoughts.

 

[tuneman]

Throttle response with a turbo is a non-issue with proper clutching. A big bore would be more reliable, but not nearly as powerful. My best answer for you, though, would be to sell your good running '13, combine it with the money you plan on spending for a power increase, and buy an Axys chassis. It'll be far better than the other 2 options and, in the long run, a lot less money spent that you'll never see again.

 

[High Voltage]

Throttle response with a turbo is a non-issue with proper clutching. A big bore would be more reliable, but not nearly as powerful. My best answer for you, though, would be to sell your good running '13, combine it with the money you plan on spending for a power increase, and buy an Axys chassis. It'll be far better than the other 2 options and, in the long run, a lot less money spent that you'll never see again.

This !!!!!!!!

 

[Teth-Air]

Yup the HO motor in the AXYS has the lighter crank and is more reliable. It doesn't have more power really but does feel snappier. Now I do own both and see the appeal of the ProRide as when set up right can lay down a beating on a stock AXYS but not by much. The pluses of the Proride are the 8 tooth drivers, suspension that keeps the front down better and better belly float on snow. The pluses of the AXYS are more traction, quicker revving, longer lasting motor, taller spindles (although this can be debated as a good thing) and new one are narrower in ski stance. The AXYS does feel lighter too.

 

[NapaMatt]

go turbo!!! don't look back!!

 

[1madbird]

Thanks for the input guys. Motor issues have been updated with a new Axys lightweight crank with Indy Dans long rods and he did the cylinders also. The market is flooded with Prorides and Axys so they hard to sell in my area plus I’m not a fan of used that I don’t know it’s history. The Axys still doesn’t give me the power I want so would still need to spend more.
I think I will go turbo and see how it does I figured with clutching the bottom end could be improved I just don’t want a dog that is no fun to ride. But I can always go back to stock and sell my kit.

 

[1madbird]

One question how much boost will a stock fuel system handle?

 

[xpturbo600]

Honestly, a $1500 turbo kit is asking for problems. Nobody sells a new kit for that, and a second hand kit will likely come with problems. If not, you are soooo lucky. Go big bore if you want a little more power. You can probably get 20 to 30 more hp depending on displacement increase. Turbo sleds are more expensive in the end everytime, and they have gremlins pop up more frequently because there is just more mechanical and electronic parts to them that can fail. Yes, a turbo can make more power ultimately, but they take more to build and maintain in every way.

To the point above, turbos are not really worth the coin and effort for a few pounds of boost. Do not put on a kit unless it has bigger injectors or secondaries with proper tuning. The tradeoff is not worth it just to hear turbo flutter with 5 psi or less. If you want over 200 hp, go turbo, but buy a full kit new so you have proper support. Otherwise, you will hate the experience.

 

[1madbird]

Yes you are correct turbos can be a pain if you don’t understand them and what they do. I built and ran my own turbo kit with carbs but It wasn’t as responsive as I want now. And I have ran 4 stroke turbos for years but they are not as finicky as 2 strokes. I wouldn’t say a big bore is any less complicated. Both require additional fueling and so a fuel controller and clutching are needed. If you can’t or are not willing to spend the time to tune or clutch then you will hate both of them even if you buy new. I have a bullet proof engine right now so boost seems the best option even if only at 5 psi which will give an additional 30 or 40hp. The big bores are not fail proof since they push the limits of the cylinder wall which can cause a failure. I can fab up any missing parts so a $1500 take off kit is not a concern as long as the turbo, secondary injectors and fuel controller are all included and in good condition.

My biggest concern is can I make a turbo as responsive as a stock sled. I know a big bore is going to be more responsive but I think it can be done with a turbo through correct tuning and clutching but I could be wrong. Also I would like to here anyone one who actually runs one or the other to hear how they perform.
Thanks.

 

[TRS]

My biggest concern is can I make a turbo as responsive as a stock sled. I know a big bore is going to be more responsive but I think it can be done with a turbo through correct tuning and clutching but I could be wrong. Also I would like to here anyone one who actually runs one or the other to hear how they perform.
Thanks.

Yes you can, if your kit has consumer adjustable fueling.
You also want a huge air box for low end response.

 

[sledhead_79]

Turbo..... I paid 2k for my used BD kit 2 yrs ago and don’t regret it. I’m the 3rd owner of my kit. Think it was originally on a ‘11 or ‘12, but I spent the extra dollar to upgrade the exhaust and couple extra components. I do go through the QD belts even with a deflector, I’m thinking I have something out of whack from before turbo days. I’ve seen other Pros with turbos not have QD belt issues, which makes me believe it’s my sled. Throw the clutching away and talk to Tony (TRS) for clutching, the guy knows his $hit! I bet he may provide some knowledge on programming also, pending what vendor.

Theres a couple sticky’s in the turbo section that talk about Tony’s clutching. I suggest reading them before purchasing a kit.

 

[1madbird]

Thanks guys I started running TRS clutch last year on stock and it took some time to get it working (my fault not the kit) but huge thanks to Tony for his help. All I can say is the original Lightning weights and the TRS weights are the real key to his kits. Don’t waste time trying to use other weights just buy his kit and be done so you can actually ride and not adjust on the hill.

 

[xpturbo600]

Yes you are correct turbos can be a pain if you don’t understand them and what they do. I built and ran my own turbo kit with carbs but It wasn’t as responsive as I want now. And I have ran 4 stroke turbos for years but they are not as finicky as 2 strokes. I wouldn’t say a big bore is any less complicated. Both require additional fueling and so a fuel controller and clutching are needed. If you can’t or are not willing to spend the time to tune or clutch then you will hate both of them even if you buy new. I have a bullet proof engine right now so boost seems the best option even if only at 5 psi which will give an additional 30 or 40hp. The big bores are not fail proof since they push the limits of the cylinder wall which can cause a failure. I can fab up any missing parts so a $1500 take off kit is not a concern as long as the turbo, secondary injectors and fuel controller are all included and in good condition.

My biggest concern is can I make a turbo as responsive as a stock sled. I know a big bore is going to be more responsive but I think it can be done with a turbo through correct tuning and clutching but I could be wrong. Also I would like to here anyone one who actually runs one or the other to hear how they perform.
Thanks.

If you built your own setup, why ask the questions? You should know what can and cannot be done. Just build your own setup with a nice turbo and source a fuel controller and secondary injector bosses. Bottom end is all about air mass in front of the throttle blades and the turbo you use...nice turbos are expensive, but are worth the money because you are buying less turbo lag and efficiency.

I build my stuff because retail kits never meet my expectations. When I have bought cheap turbo kit parts, I end up rebuilding most of the junk anyway. If you have the fab skills, don't waste your time on something you won't like.

 

[mtncat1]

i just took a silber tunerless turbo of my 13 and it ran great with no issues i had a 4 lbs spring and it ripped , btw the kit is for sale in the swap meet right now , p/s i ran big bores for years with modest power gains expensive ,and nothing compared to the prefomance of a a turbo

 

[1madbird]

XPTURBO600. You are correct I prefer to build my own stuff also. I have had both big bore and turbo but both were on carb engines. So doing fuel injection it should be more responsive but wanted others opinions.

mtncat1. cost is defiantly an issue. Big bores are expensive for such little gains.

I think I will work on the turbo route. Thanks guys.

 

[1madbird]

What about turbo options. I know the 2860 was a good option but I think the 2871 has been a better from what I have read. Any other options that are good? What about fuel controllers? Seems like Boondocker is about the only option now days. The power commander with a boost option might work. Dobeck has one but have not heard much about them lately.

 

[mtncat1]

What about turbo options. I know the 2860 was a good option but I think the 2871 has been a better from what I have read. Any other options that are good? What about fuel controllers? Seems like Boondocker is about the only option now days. The power commander with a boost option might work. Dobeck has one but have not heard much about them lately.

most turbos out there are running reprogamed polaris ecms ,i think only the boondocker runs controller boxes . my silber runs the reprogramed ecm and was almost flawless . with stock like throttle response

 

[sledhedXP]

most turbos out there are running reprogamed polaris ecms ,i think only the boondocker runs controller boxes . my silber runs the reprogramed ecm and was almost flawless . with stock like throttle response

That is what I would be looking for, stock like throttle response; whose clutching are you running? And are you talking Pro or Axys? If you don't mind my asking...

 

[mtncat1]

That is what I would be looking for, stock like throttle response; whose clutching are you running? And are you talking Pro or Axys? If you don't mind my asking...

I ran the turbo on my 13 pro rank, the clutching is just rooster turbo weights, with a custom helix . I will make you a deal on it if you are interested

 

[xpturbo600]

What about turbo options. I know the 2860 was a good option but I think the 2871 has been a better from what I have read. Any other options that are good? What about fuel controllers? Seems like Boondocker is about the only option now days. The power commander with a boost option might work. Dobeck has one but have not heard much about them lately.

Put a garrett g25 550 with a 0.92 AR v-band housing. Two strokes are like rotary motors, they need low exhaust manifold absolute pressure (EMAP) to run hard. That turbo will outflow a 2871 and spool better. If your reasonable with boost (10 psi and less), you won't need an intercooler as they become more of a heat sink than a cooler. And, with A favorable MAP/EMAP ratio, that turbo will put more mass flow through the motor on less boost and not choke flow on the bottom like a conservative A/R setup on a 28 series garrett.