tunes. what are you guys using?

Mar 9, 2017
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Lethbridge, AB
ok. so I took my top end apart and my cylinder and piston are pretty rough. need new ones after 60 hours. long story short, we figured my tune is way off via the big bore manufacturer and the bazzaz rep. looks like someone completely winged it or something as its a very odd tune. isnt it?



ive got the bazzaz fuel controller which piggy backs onto the ecm through the harness and intercepts the signal to adjust the fueling. well mines way off somehow and it killed my motor.... "The mapping looks funny for a 520 kit. - 6% at idle is not correct and there is no way you need 60% more fuel at 100% throttle at any RPM with the 520 kit. To me it looks like you are too lean @ lower throttle openings and way too rich at larger throttle openings. The rich condition will wash the rings and cause the issues you had because of lubrication loss caused by excessive fueling."








now im not too sure where to go from here and am wondering what you guys are using? I assume a lot of stock tunes here?


anyone here run, or know anything about running a self mapping/auto adjusting tune like this: http://www.bazzaz.net/index.php/fuel-control/z-afm-self-mapper

ive been told with the self adjusting tune that if the sensor dies, im screwed and that normally theyre only used for dyno tuning/fine tuning, then a narrow band sensor is thrown in for normal operation.





current tune:







soooo. I have no idea where to go. auto tune would be nice, but doesnt seem reliable. manual tune seems hard to get dialed, especially with no rear wheel option available. what are you guys doing for tuning/fueling?
 
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wwillf01

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Aug 12, 2012
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Save yourself a ton of time... Dyno tune it call it a day.. lock it down.. auto tune in my experience can be pretty touchy... You want to save the Dyno tuned map... If an Afr sensor goes bad you can revert... I ended up turning auto tune off on the turbo because it was a pain... Can be more than a couple of hundred bucks...

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wwillf01

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Last thing thumper racing can reprogram the stock ecm for a 520... Or use razes ecu

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Jan 15, 2010
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Sherwood Park AB
Last thing thumper racing can reprogram the stock ecm for a 520... Or use razes ecu

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I believe thumper is no longer reflashing ecus. Not 100% positive but pretty sure. KTM no longer let's people unlock the ECU. Until this past winter you could simply get the flash sent to you and get your local Ktm dealer to load it with their digital wrench.
 
Mar 9, 2017
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Lethbridge, AB
thumper does tunes, and did in fact offer to even fine tune bazzazs tune as it doesnt go below 2500 RPM?. theyve been incredibly helpful and have taught me a TON so far about all of this.... more than the bazzaz guys tbh. I dont know much about this, seems like bazzaz isnt as great as I thought it was.




I cant dyno it, there isnt one within hours of me and my swingarm setup is long gone. its a permanent snowbike.



this is what I was told regarding the auto tune... makes sense. what do you guys think?





"I wouldn’t think twice about running the Zafm We have used them for years with great results. The wide band works great for tuning. The Z-AFM does the same thing a dyno and the dyno operator would using the dynos wide band sensor but it does it automatically but even then the Zafm will not actually make any changes to the fueling until you accept and enable them. For the Bazazz system run the self-mapping Zafm for a total of 4-6 hours then remove it.
The way to map the system would be to run the tuning software for 15 min then accept the changes. Repeat after another 30 min and then another hour after that. Then do one run all day or whatever your normal rides are. At that point your map is made save the changes to the ECU remove the Zafm this will make the map a static map and you are done.

All dynos use wide band sensors to read AFR’s I’m not sure where you heard close loop is for light loads but that is not the case. Also the Zafm is not set up to read a narrow band sensor.

The biggest thing you will need to watch is engine temps while mapping. The engine temp CAN NOT fall below 170 deg F during the mapping process if it does and the ECU puts the system back into cold start mode the system will try to lean out the overly rich cold start fueling and it will not map correctly.

The other thing you will need to do is adjust the fueling manually for any RPM below 2500 as you can see from the map you sent the system will not map under that rpm so you will have to get the motor to temp then manually input the corrections until the on board AFM reads 13.1-13.4 at idle. If this is not done you will have hard starting and stalling issues. IF you would like help during this process you can send us the map and I can help you finalize the changes for idle."
 
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Jan 14, 2004
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If you have the bike apart make sure you check the spec on the con rod. My TR 520 went through now 3 rods.

BTW I wouldn't let those clowns anywhere near my lawnmower let alone my bike. Lesson learned. Once I tore down my motor after they rebuilt it was full of problems, tons of them. The head bolts were so stripped out I had to drill the tops off to get the head off. They used the wrong crank seals, documented it on the invoice and told me to pound sand when they failed. Those guys are hacks of the highest order.

The 520 kit is a waste of time, tune it conservatively and give it a chance to live. If you wring its neck all day long it wont live. 60 hours is good.


Good luck


M5
 
Mar 9, 2017
505
88
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32
Lethbridge, AB
If you have the bike apart make sure you check the spec on the con rod. My TR 520 went through now 3 rods.

BTW I wouldn't let those clowns anywhere near my lawnmower let alone my bike. Lesson learned. Once I tore down my motor after they rebuilt it was full of problems, tons of them. The head bolts were so stripped out I had to drill the tops off to get the head off. They used the wrong crank seals, documented it on the invoice and told me to pound sand when they failed. Those guys are hacks of the highest order.

The 520 kit is a waste of time, tune it conservatively and give it a chance to live. If you wring its neck all day long it wont live. 60 hours is good.


Good luck


M5


ugh. wish I knew all this info months ago!


I bought it from them, im doing it myself. very easy work, especially compared to the crfs, which are also easy. TR has actually been very helpful and knowledgeable for me so far TBH. they pinpointed the problem (I think) and are helping to fix it... more so than bazzaz is thats for sure.


tune is the key thing here... I gotta get that figured out. debating auto tune with a sensor in the exhaust which is all a tad scary, or keeping it simple. id be curious to see some of your guys maps just for the hell of it.


if for some reason this kit ever fails, ill be going back down to stock bore. at that point it would need a bottom end tear down too. I think the track makes more of a difference/improvement than the big bore kit, thats next once/if I ever get this tuning situation figured out. camso track and 450 would prob beat my 520 with a yeti maxtrack it sounds like. even though its really not much of a price difference im sure between OEM cylinder and piston and the TR BB kit. I paid $540 for piston and cylinder.. not too bad. track is $1000.
 
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Mar 9, 2017
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Lethbridge, AB
still not sure what to do. bazzaz seems pretty useless, their customer service sucks. I dont think im gonna go with their auto tuner if im gonna be spending a few hundred bucks.


if I went with the raze or other brand....



1. how hard is it to swap over? wiring is my weakness, soldering is scary especially on ECM and an FI motor.



2. where does raze get their tune from that works so well?



3. is there any resale value to my bazzazz tuner?
 
Jan 15, 2010
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Sherwood Park AB
Pr2 and raze are plug and play. Simply plug into stock harness, fits in stock location nicely. 2 minutes to to calibrate tps and ride the piss out of it. You will spend more time taking ur seat off. Raze and pr2 write their own maps. I would pass on the raze system as you are from Canada. I don't think they have adjusted the maps for our non ethanol fuel yet. Pretty poor reviews from most north of the border last year. Had pr2 on my 520 and have one on the 490, wouldn't go any other way.
 
Mar 9, 2017
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Lethbridge, AB
seems like PR2 is the way to go... I hope its an easy plug and play. unplug that fking POS bazazz setup and throw it out, plug in the PR2 and hope my new cylinder and piston lasts more than 60 hours!!


will email PR2 now and get the ball rolling.... snow is coming soon!!




ps: assault. if you still got that spare one, id take it off your hands. PM me and ill shoot you my phone number if you still got it.


thanks
 
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Mar 21, 2016
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NW oregon
Nobody else has the power commander v? I have it on my weirdo 450 and it’s worked out great. Auto tune seems to work too and the bike feels like it’s running right on stock exhaust. Dunno but it’s held up a few seasons and totally woke the bike up big time.
 
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