I think you just confirmed with my diagnosis.
TPS + dielectric grease= Det
- Thread starter TRS
- Start date
I think you just confirmed with my diagnosis.
O
Read my first post and reread your previous post. "Dielectric floated the pins". If reinserting the connector moved the remnant dielectric out of the way for better contact then what was the cause?
I surely didn't mean to get you upset. Just passing on a little info. If you like dielectric grease, have at it.
All personal watercraft come packed full of dielectric grease in every single connection to prevent corrosion. Hard to believe the grease is causing the issue at hand.
My '14 deto light came on second ride also. went into limp mode until I shut down and restarted. Doubt it is grease, though.
My '14 deto light came on second ride also. went into limp mode until I shut down and restarted. Doubt it is grease, though.
O
Polaris changed it!!
Going through my 2014 service manual... found this...something that was not in the 2013 Service manual. Seems Polaris is aware of the issue as well.
For 2014, Polaris is still using the Mikuni TPS, with the same specifications... but it now has "flying leads"... which means NO connector on the TPS... the wires are part of the TPS with leads and a sealed connector at the end of the leads... no more water pooling in the TPS connector socket.
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Going through my 2014 service manual... found this...something that was not in the 2013 Service manual. Seems Polaris is aware of the issue as well.
For 2014, Polaris is still using the Mikuni TPS, with the same specifications... but it now has "flying leads"... which means NO connector on the TPS... the wires are part of the TPS with leads and a sealed connector at the end of the leads... no more water pooling in the TPS connector socket.
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Thanks M.H.!
Nice to see some design improvements.
With regard to the subject at hand, I think the answer to whether "to use dielectric grease or to not use dielectric grease" is not black & white.
Several factors need to be considered:
1/ A thorough cleaning of the connection using some type of electrical contact cleaner, followed by a close visual inspection of the terminals. The tech will be able to spot terminals that are suspect & either replace them or sometimes re-work them in order to provide a proper connection. A trick I've seen used over the years is to remove the sealing grommet & carefully re-assemble the connection, paying close attention to the amount of drag felt. Terminals that are weak will provide little to no resistance.
2/ The actual application the grease is important. Filling the cavity of the female terminal of the connector is never a good idea. Careful application of the grease onto the male terminal along with filling the void around the perimeter of the female terminal(where & if possible) will not cause any issues. Also, understanding the design of the particular connection you are working with. Some will be less forgiving to the amount of grease that are used than others. As you pointed out, the TPS terminals are weak at best so use the grease accordingly.
3/ Limit the amount of times the connector is assembled/disassembled. Certain terminals will lose their tension after unnecessary assembly/disassembly. Thinking that the connection needs to be opened up on a regular basis is a mistake. Once the connector has been inspected & greased there should be no need to open it up again unless for troubleshooting purposes.
I've seen many more issues in equipment using weather proof connectors(Weather Pack / Metri-Pack, Deutsch, Mil-Spec, etc.) that have been due to a lack of grease(or some form of corrosion prevention) than those that have been over-greased. This being due to the imperfect world that we live in where terminal & connector sealing grommets can sometimes leak.
As alternate solution, people may consider the use of this product, Corrosion Block spray: http://learchem.com/products/corrosion-block.html
We've used it(along with dielectric grease) with success for many years.
I don't like the idea of people misinterpreting this thread as a suggestion to not use dielectric grease(or some form of corrosion prevention). Properly used, it has absolutely no downsides.
Nice to see some design improvements.
With regard to the subject at hand, I think the answer to whether "to use dielectric grease or to not use dielectric grease" is not black & white.
Several factors need to be considered:
1/ A thorough cleaning of the connection using some type of electrical contact cleaner, followed by a close visual inspection of the terminals. The tech will be able to spot terminals that are suspect & either replace them or sometimes re-work them in order to provide a proper connection. A trick I've seen used over the years is to remove the sealing grommet & carefully re-assemble the connection, paying close attention to the amount of drag felt. Terminals that are weak will provide little to no resistance.
2/ The actual application the grease is important. Filling the cavity of the female terminal of the connector is never a good idea. Careful application of the grease onto the male terminal along with filling the void around the perimeter of the female terminal(where & if possible) will not cause any issues. Also, understanding the design of the particular connection you are working with. Some will be less forgiving to the amount of grease that are used than others. As you pointed out, the TPS terminals are weak at best so use the grease accordingly.
3/ Limit the amount of times the connector is assembled/disassembled. Certain terminals will lose their tension after unnecessary assembly/disassembly. Thinking that the connection needs to be opened up on a regular basis is a mistake. Once the connector has been inspected & greased there should be no need to open it up again unless for troubleshooting purposes.
I've seen many more issues in equipment using weather proof connectors(Weather Pack / Metri-Pack, Deutsch, Mil-Spec, etc.) that have been due to a lack of grease(or some form of corrosion prevention) than those that have been over-greased. This being due to the imperfect world that we live in where terminal & connector sealing grommets can sometimes leak.
As alternate solution, people may consider the use of this product, Corrosion Block spray: http://learchem.com/products/corrosion-block.html
We've used it(along with dielectric grease) with success for many years.
I don't like the idea of people misinterpreting this thread as a suggestion to not use dielectric grease(or some form of corrosion prevention). Properly used, it has absolutely no downsides.
geez ! folks :face-icon-small-con
i think you all mean THANKS TRS !, INTERESTING !, SOMETHING TO KEEP AN EYE ON !
a little more :face-icon-small-win:face-icon-small-hap
and a little less :rant: :tsk:
PLEASE :amen:
i think you all mean THANKS TRS !, INTERESTING !, SOMETHING TO KEEP AN EYE ON !
a little more :face-icon-small-win:face-icon-small-hap
and a little less :rant: :tsk:
PLEASE :amen:
Merlin...Good post!
IF there is a terminal problem with Polaris is that they do not sell the terminals and they are a PITA to find... the Polaris techs simply replace the whole injector harness when there is an issue.
SkiDoo Pins for the TPS, which is the same, say for a 2006 summit 800 ptec ARE available but pricey... They seem to be a proprietary connector for the Mikuni TPS... but maybe someone on here has a source for the pins.... For me.... nothing on the pins and a little dielectric grease wipe around the main seal and a dab of RTV around the wire inlets....
The "loop" that Polaris has you use is to that the wires don't get cocked to the side and enter the connector-wire-seals straight on and this minimizes leakage.... so the loop that they show is pretty important.
On your topic #3...Great point... I've watched as people yank/rock/tug on the connector to get it to release... the release tab IS a bit difficult, but once released, it slides right out... I would imagine that too much rocking could fatigue the terminals inside the connectors.
As far as all connectors needing dielectric grease... I'm not 100% on that... A good friend from university days is an engineer for Delphi (weatherpak, metripak etc).... we've talked about this and he says that is why they make the sealed connectors in the first place...That being said... the connector that Mikuni supplies to the OEM's (Poo, Doo, Suzuki etc) is just not up to snuff. I just chatted with him... he said that if the connector gets water in... solve the water intrusion issue... most likely from the wire inlet seals... and keep it dry....
My 2 cents for what they are worth.
.
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IF there is a terminal problem with Polaris is that they do not sell the terminals and they are a PITA to find... the Polaris techs simply replace the whole injector harness when there is an issue.
SkiDoo Pins for the TPS, which is the same, say for a 2006 summit 800 ptec ARE available but pricey... They seem to be a proprietary connector for the Mikuni TPS... but maybe someone on here has a source for the pins.... For me.... nothing on the pins and a little dielectric grease wipe around the main seal and a dab of RTV around the wire inlets....
The "loop" that Polaris has you use is to that the wires don't get cocked to the side and enter the connector-wire-seals straight on and this minimizes leakage.... so the loop that they show is pretty important.
On your topic #3...Great point... I've watched as people yank/rock/tug on the connector to get it to release... the release tab IS a bit difficult, but once released, it slides right out... I would imagine that too much rocking could fatigue the terminals inside the connectors.
As far as all connectors needing dielectric grease... I'm not 100% on that... A good friend from university days is an engineer for Delphi (weatherpak, metripak etc).... we've talked about this and he says that is why they make the sealed connectors in the first place...That being said... the connector that Mikuni supplies to the OEM's (Poo, Doo, Suzuki etc) is just not up to snuff. I just chatted with him... he said that if the connector gets water in... solve the water intrusion issue... most likely from the wire inlet seals... and keep it dry....
My 2 cents for what they are worth.
.
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lol
Dave... is there any speed-density system that is not from the days of Magnum-P.I. ???
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TTT
Helped a reader with his persistent DET problem today with this tip...
He had done a liberal coating of CRC dielectric grease in the socket...
I had him clean it all out with silicone/wax and grease remover from NAPA...
Sealed up the wires with some UltraBlack silicone where they enter the connector... and he said the problem went away with his riding today... Cool.
Another one for TRS!!
The new sleds (2014-up) have the Flying lead connectors, as shown in post #27 above, that do not have a connector-plug at the tps... it is all molded in as the lead and then connects back in the harness...
But for any Polaris with a TPS sensor... this is good advice
If you need to make a new TPS harness, a tester, or a need new parts for it... In addition to the excellent link from cwbyup_22, CycleTerminal has these parts and easy ordering as well. (ballenger has the better price by a couple of bucks)
http://www.cycleterminal.com/ts-090.html
Helped a reader with his persistent DET problem today with this tip...
He had done a liberal coating of CRC dielectric grease in the socket...
I had him clean it all out with silicone/wax and grease remover from NAPA...
Sealed up the wires with some UltraBlack silicone where they enter the connector... and he said the problem went away with his riding today... Cool.
Another one for TRS!!
The new sleds (2014-up) have the Flying lead connectors, as shown in post #27 above, that do not have a connector-plug at the tps... it is all molded in as the lead and then connects back in the harness...
But for any Polaris with a TPS sensor... this is good advice
If you need to make a new TPS harness, a tester, or a need new parts for it... In addition to the excellent link from cwbyup_22, CycleTerminal has these parts and easy ordering as well. (ballenger has the better price by a couple of bucks)
http://www.cycleterminal.com/ts-090.html
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Eric, have you checked to see if there is a major price diff in the '13 or '14 TPS?
I wouldn't mind next time replacing a '13 and older with a '14 TPS.
The connector (pins) is still garbage...
I wouldn't mind next time replacing a '13 and older with a '14 TPS.
The connector (pins) is still garbage...
PN. 3131751 TPS-POTTED LEAD $189.99 (Flying lead TPS used in 2014/15/16 ProRide and AXYS 800's)
PN. 3131591 SENSOR-THROTTLE POSITION $179.99 (2013 and prior)
You would need to modify the factory harness on a 2013 and prior to mate with the connector on the 2014+ flying-lead TPS sensor connector.... I'm not sure what that would be at this point.
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PN. 3131591 SENSOR-THROTTLE POSITION $179.99 (2013 and prior)
You would need to modify the factory harness on a 2013 and prior to mate with the connector on the 2014+ flying-lead TPS sensor connector.... I'm not sure what that would be at this point.
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Mating connector, for the 2014+ "flying lead tps", is a Sumitomo 6180-3241... but I don't have a source for it.
This is for the WIRING HARNESS SIDE of the TPS... NOT the tps itself... ie, this is what the "flying lead tps" plugs into on the harness.
It might be on this page... but I don't have a "flying lead TPS" to compare.
http://www.cycleterminal.com/ts-090.html
Is this it???
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This is for the WIRING HARNESS SIDE of the TPS... NOT the tps itself... ie, this is what the "flying lead tps" plugs into on the harness.
It might be on this page... but I don't have a "flying lead TPS" to compare.
http://www.cycleterminal.com/ts-090.html
Is this it???
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TTT for doob
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