Team Lance shifter sled build

kanedog

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What gear ratio is each gear?

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dansvan

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1.75 primary reduction
1st 2.73
2nd 1.94
3rd 1.54
4th 1.29
5th1.15
6th1.07
 

kanedog

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How did you come up with the gear setup?
As in, was there different options on the primary reduction?
This is so interesting.

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dansvan

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The primary gear reduction on most motorcycle engine/trans combos is non adjustable. 1.75 to 1 is the gear reduction between the crankshaft and the transmission on this engine. So in this case the crank spins 1.75 times for every one trans mainshaft revolution. That ratio is decided by the engineers building the bike. Ive seen high revving single cylinder 2 strokes at 3 to 1, and alot of the 450 powered snowbikes are between 2.5 and 2.8 to 1. So in essence the chaincase on a modern snowmobile is replaced in this application by gears built inside the engine/trans cases. Thats why you dont see a small gear and a much larger gear on a snowbike. Heres a crappy pic of the track speeds at certain rpms in each gear in this sled.



You cant see due to the Supermotors watermark but top speed with these belt drive gears is 83.2mph. A simple belt drive gear change raises or lowers those speeds. Just swapping the two gears end for end would result in a top speed of 103mph
 
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dansvan

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Very nice.
You must have a very well equipped shop??
How long have you been working on this?
Thanks!

I started tear down on the donor bike and sled on Sept 7th.

I own and run a full service auto repair business here in Eagle River Alaska. Most of this sled has been built with a MIG spool gun, a sawzall, grinder, and drill. I have my machine work done in Anchorage at Anchorage Drag Bike.
 

Matte Murder

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Of course Anchorage has a specialty DRAG bike shop! Super cool build. Amazing how guys can just fit all this stuff together, solve 100 problems along the way, and actually spit out a finished product in a reasonable amount of time.
 

CATSLEDMAN1

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thanks a ton

thanks a ton for taking on this project. I have always thought that when sleds were really an engineering marvel they would all come with 10 speed air shift transmissions. When I built my first snowbike from scratch 6 years ago and hit the snow, I realized the value in climbing and traction control when your throttle is direct drive to the track. Rubber belt drives with ag clutches are from 50's farm machinery, and still are really a backwards poor fix.

Again, thanks for getting out front of the crowd.
 

BradM8

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By far the most out the box thinking done to a snowmobile is some time. Are you going to narrow the plastic and the boards to capitalize on all the new found space on the sides?
 

dansvan

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By far the most out the box thinking done to a snowmobile is some time. Are you going to narrow the plastic and the boards to capitalize on all the new found space on the sides?
Thanks for the kind words. We'll see how it goes.

As far as plastics, I have no intention of reinstalling any of them. I have a few ideas kicking around. As for the boards, I'm going to leave them for at least this season. I am already kicking ideas around for a purpose built chassis but I need to see how the drive system is even going to work and respond in real world conditions to determine if it warrants taking that next step. My gut feeling is it will see that next level.
 
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dansvan

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Got some wiring done on the sled today. Fuel pump and bypass regulator installed. Regulator is a 1 to 1 rising rate regulator. It will raise the fuel pressure by 1 lb. for every pound of boost it sees. Wiring has been straight forward, packaging everything in the space provided has been interesting.



 

dansvan

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Yes. The clutch can be fully used like normal. You must use the clutch lever to take off from a stop and to engage neutral. It can be ridden as a normal motorcycle in every sense except your thumb will shift with an up button and a down button. So you can slip the clutch when needed, and have full control. However when spirited riding is wanted this system can shift without the clutch. I did a lot of research into the various systems out there. Air actuated, solenoid actuated, the methods used to control them. I felt this Translogic system would work the best in terms of fitment, quality, weight, and very advanced electronics. You get your clutchless shifts by allowing a computer to retard your ignition for a fraction of a second. This unloads the trans briefly allowing the shift to occur. A lot of motorcyclist do this already by quickly slightly backing off the throttle and making the shift. A lot of riders use a quickshifter that uses a load cell installed in line with the shift rod, that cell sends a signal to a computer that retards the timing allowing full throttle clutchless upshifts. Translogic has very advanced software that monitors and controls each individual cylinder, has a soft restore feature to bring the power back on, and allows for incredibly smooth shifts even at lower rpms. As for shift times, they claim that on an average Japanese street/track bike it can shift 4 times in a second. Under full power. It also does clutchless downshifting by using a throttle blipper. It sees the current rpm, receives the signal from your thumb to downshift, and raises the rpm to the proper mesh point to allow the lower gear to engage. On throttle by wire bikes this is easily done. On my application I will either use the clutch manually or once I master it use the twist throttle to quickly blip it manually.

So my concerns with this system. Falling off. This is going to need a bullet proof tether system. This machine will not automatically return to idle once the throttle is released like a normal sled. If when you exit this sled it doesn’t stall, it will continue to turn the track. Would be funny to see an unmanned sled happily cruising until it hit something. Or it could be very ugly if you were pinned under it. It does have a tip over sensor on it from the factory speed triple. This kills the power when the bike is laid over. I’m going to do some experimenting when it’s up and running to see how intrusive it is. Don’t need the sled turned off while turning out of a high mark or dropping out of a sidehill etc. It can be bypassed but if it doesn’t spoil the fun and still kills the sled when needed I’ll leave it alone. Another concern is when it’s stuck. When someone gives you a ski pull. When you’re standing next to it pushing on the handlebars to help pop it up out of a hole. All of these things motorcyclist and sport quads have been living with for years, so I know it’s 100% doable, it’s just a matter of how fast the learning curve sets in and new techniques are developed.

Whew. Long winded.
 

dansvan

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Any concern with oiling at low speed/off camber?
I relocated the oil pump pickup to the very bottom of the cases as the engine sits in the sled. It holds 4 qts in stock configuration so I'm starting with that. It puts the oil level well above the pickup. We'll see how it works. What bothers me more is having the lower trans gears partially in the oil. Drag, oil foaming, etc. Just dont know yet how it will work but there's trade offs for everything. This is more of a "will it work and be fun" type build, and if it does work and is fun, I have plans for a dedicated chassis that orients the engine more in its normal designed position.
 

Sheetmetalfab

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Fyi the tip over valve on my R6 snowbike works great.

Kills it when i bail and it dumps over but has never happened while riding.

Not sure if the mechanics work the same for triumph.
 

dansvan

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Fyi the tip over valve on my R6 snowbike works great.

Kills it when i bail and it dumps over but has never happened while riding.

Not sure if the mechanics work the same for triumph.
Good to know, thanks. My understanding is this exact sensor has been used on multiple brands.

No progress this week, between work and the upcoming 4 day weekend to go ride in Valdez time has been short. Come on mother nature, warm up!
 

dansvan

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My Skiinz airframe seat built for a Rev arrived today. It doesnt fit exactly right but I'll massage it into place as with most things on here. I'm happy with the purchase, it will give me a place to mount the electronics.



 
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