Summit X Expert Handling

[jcjc1]

yeah my ability or lack thereof, riding style and preferences plus the typical conditions here tell me that easier to initiate is the way to go. i went with the 165 as that's what i'm used to and it's plenty playful enough especially with the limiter strap out. if i hang onto this sled awhile i may do the 34" conversion. sure sounds like it would be a step in the right direction in terms of less effort overall in controlling the sled.
i'd love to get on a polaris for a day but jeebus the amount of separate issues they've had just this year have keeps me from buying one.
we'll see about the new doo--i normally don't buy first year stuff.

 

[NHRoadking]

Doo has made it easy to switch between t-motion or no t-motion. Just $150 for the part.

 

[Frankthetank79]

yeah my ability or lack thereof, riding style and preferences plus the typical conditions here tell me that easier to initiate is the way to go. i went with the 165 as that's what i'm used to and it's plenty playful enough especially with the limiter strap out. if i hang onto this sled awhile i may do the 34" conversion. sure sounds like it would be a step in the right direction in terms of less effort overall in controlling the sled.
i'd love to get on a polaris for a day but jeebus the amount of separate issues they've had just this year have keeps me from buying one.
we'll see about the new doo--i normally don't buy first year stuff.

Nornona mentioned you cant put the 34" front end on the freeride the shocks hit the a-arms
Post #30. I also considered changing my snowcheck from the expert to the X. The price was so close and the expert came with all the newer stuff I figured I can always throw t motion back in if I need to.
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[Top]

Keep in mind it's not only the T-Motion, it's the track too.

To be honest after reading different posts it made me unsure of my choice of the Expert vs Freeride. I snow checked an Expert, 165" Turbo for a couple reasons. First reason is because I'm a bigger guy (255 lbs. before gear). I always had a 163" or 165" sleds. A few years ago I did a 155" and found that it wore me out faster, and I had to ride it more aggressive. I personally ride more lazy. I also went with the Expert to try something new. Yes, we all know what it's like to have T-Motion and a flex track. Some of us know what it's like to have T-Motion locked out and a flex track. Having no T-Motion and not having a flex track is something new. As a bigger guy, I'm not nervous getting the machine on it's edge. I think what I'm nervous about is the play factor. I hope putting the limiter strap in the longer position and being a bigger guy it will be just as playful....

My .02 worth......................

 

[live2beel]

The new flex track won’t flex as much as the old one due to them running the paddles to the edge of the track. I would think if the Expert is to planted you could through the T Motion in it. The full rod track will be more rigid, but not by a large margin as it was before.

 

[Bob3434]

Great question and I have spent a lot of time on the expert, freeride and edge in the Gen 5. Comparing it to my 2022 Summit Expert set at 34 with t-motion 175 and a summit freeride set at 36 with t-motion 165. I felt the expert was 20-25% harder to ride for me, I ride steep stuff but not where if I make a mistake my sled will roll into a tree and break, that is 38-40 degrees and steeper. I know everyone says they ride that but sorry not everyone does, there like the polaris the expert is a weapon it hold an edge better. However like a polaris being so planted loses fun in carving etc. The team has spent tons of time on t-motion, with flex edge track with out it and also locked out in every configuration. In deep snow it is really splitting hairs. but I found when the snow was hard with then a bit of fresh the sled was harder to initiate especially for my 5'6 145 pound body, I picked the freeride every time which had 36 front end and felt more nimble than my 2022, it was my favortie, I know my real fav will be the summit x with 34 front end and t-motion and flex edge. The flex edge and tmotion work, they side hill extremely well, one thing you have to remember is it will wash out if you spin, but if you know traction, like riding a trials bike vrs dirt bike then that is the difference. One thing to note is chris B is constantly saying the ski doo wonkey skid is dumb, however he rides a carbon rear skid for weight. Next time you have one of those grab the rear wheels and flex it, the carbon skid flexes similar to t-motion since if it was super rigid it would crack. The problem this year I see is every year ski doos top sled is the easiest to ride, the 2022 expert is the best and easiest sled ski doo has ever made, but for 2023 they make not a better sled but a different sled for different riders. So choose carefully what you do and dont do, for the guy or girl who is sidehilling in steep steep trees all day, yest expert will be a knife, but for guys who ride trees, not extreme steep, under 38 degrees and deep pow and everything in between you might like the summit x or freeride better. What ever you choose you will get use to. It is why I changed my order from 2 experts in 175 and 165 to a 165 turbo summit x and a 165 summit turbo freeride. Can't wait. Aslo Jason and Denis who are guides ate ckmp and put 10-15 thousand km on sleds each year and absolutely rip, say they have never found that t-motion stopped them from anything, jason only deleted it for hill climb racing and denis who has spent the most time on the expert said he preferred the freeride to the expert cause he was less tired at the end of the day, the less tired means better you ride. These are all just thoughts to give you an idea of what to choose. There is no worng or right since only you can know what you do most. Also a bigger guy will find the expert easier to tip over than me because of strength and height. cheers dave

Nice info

 

[Cat-man-Doo]

I locked out t-motion of my '22 expert, it pretty much does what you would expect, slightly more effort to get the sled on edge initially, then much more predictable and holds an edge better in steeper or rutted terrain. Non-flex edge track on the '23 should accentuate this a bit more.

I find this interesting. I find the Polaris Pro easier (considerably) to put on edge than my 2022 Summit X (both machines running the same ski width). Why is the poo so much easier than the doo and locking out the skid so it is more like the poo make it an even BIGGER difference???.

 

[turboless terry]

I find this interesting. I find the Polaris Pro easier (considerably) to put on edge than my 2022 Summit X (both machines running the same ski width). Why is the poo so much easier than the doo and locking out the skid so it is more like the poo make it an even BIGGER difference???.

15 wide track and lighter

 

[Cat-man-Doo]

15 wide track and lighter

Maybe. To be fair, the poo was 155 and my Doo is 165 so there is that. Also of note, the guy with the Poo had tried a friends new Lynx 154 and said "that thing is like a anchor". He found it WAY more difficult to put on edge than even my Summit. I am not sure how much of a roll that "lighter" plays. The curb weight can vary a LOT just in how much and what one carried their tunnel bag and how much fi[ule you have on board at the time the curb weight difference between the two sleds is NOT that great. I can't say I notice any difference in how easy it is to put my sled on edge with a full tank of fuel compared to near empty and that is a LOT bigger weight difference than the curb weight of the poo vs Doo.

 

[turboless terry]

Tipped a 23 lynx 4100 up at Jackson and did the same with a boost. Polaris was definitely easier. Both sleds were centered on skis. I ordered a re shredder so will see. I will guarantee the 15 wide will be a noticeable difference getting on edge than my buddy's new expert he ordered. Will have a direct comparison on handling and traction next season

 

[caper11]

I will throw my two cents in. I locked out my 2019 165 t motion, I liked how more predictable the sled was instead of feeling squishy, and loose in the rear skid, especially on low snow days, climbing.
I also felt I had to stay on top of the sled more with the tmotion after I removed the lockout due to reliability issues, of the rear triangle. I called numerous manufacturers to get them to build a beefed up rear triangle, I even asked ZRP to do a non offset triangle before they even considered one.

I always believed the rear skid washout issue was a ski/throttle problem not a tmotion issue.

I rode a 2022 with the 34” front end, it would turn the moment I turned my head, very easy to tip the sled into a carve.
I ordered a turbo R 165 expert, I expect it to be harder to tip up, but it does have a 34” front end, but I also expect it to be more predictable. The G5 suspension is new with the longer travel.

 

[Frankthetank79]

Tipped a 23 lynx 4100 up at Jackson and did the same with a boost. Polaris was definitely easier. Both sleds were centered on skis. I ordered a re shredder so will see. I will guarantee the 15 wide will be a noticeable difference getting on edge than my buddy's new expert he ordered. Will have a direct comparison on handling and traction next season

The Lynx with those big skis makes it more planted for sure. If they were swapped to a gripper style ski it would be comparable...

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[turboless terry]

The Lynx with those big skis makes it more planted for sure. If they were swapped to a gripper style ski it would be comparable...

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Those will be coming off and sly dogs, which I've never tried, or mohawks will be going on.
I don't believe the skis made any difference on a hard surface. You are just rocking on the keel. Polaris is just easier.

 

[Cat-man-Doo]

I also felt I had to stay on top of the sled more with the tmotion after I removed the lockout due to reliability issues, of the rear triangle. I called numerous manufacturers to get them to build a beefed up rear triangle, I even asked ZRP to do a non offset triangle before they even considered one.

Why not just put C-motion in it?.

 

[caper11]

Why not just put C-motion in it?.

At the time there was a lot of uncertainty if that would bolt up.

Now Knowing of guys that have actually done the mod, I now have a xp rear suspension/c-motion in my garage, for my 2021 I sold last month.

 

[Driver]

XP rear arm does not fit, geometry is different. Go with C-motion, I used it since 2019 and fit is 100%.

I ordered Expert 154" Turbo R, so excited to see all the uprades in actiion on the trees & hills! By paper, its quite much a perfect sled for me.

 

[caper11]

XP rear arm does not fit, geometry is different. Go with C-motion, I used it since 2019 and fit is 100%.

I ordered Expert 154" Turbo R, so excited to see all the uprades in actiion on the trees & hills! By paper, its quite much a perfect sled for me.

This is what I mean, different opinions and hard to get a good answer. Till I seen one installed for myself. The front arm is different it pivots on the tmotion, it was the rear that’s needed anyway.

The guy I rode with had a xp rear arm installed in his 165 G4. Looked just fine to me, and he loves it. Xp rear arm also fits in the T3.

Looks like the c-motion is just a name put to a xp rear suspension.

The guy I got this front and rear arm from put a tmotion in his xp.

 

[Driver]

This is what I mean, different opinions and hard to get a good answer. Till I seen one installed for myself. The front arm is different it pivots on the tmotion, it was the rear that’s needed anyway.

The guy I rode with had a xp rear arm installed in his 165 G4. Looked just fine to me, and he loves it. Xp rear arm also fits in the T3.

Looks like the c-motion is just a name put to a xp rear suspension.

The guy I got this front and rear arm from put a tmotion in his xp.

There has been enough debate about XP rear arm around the forums, for sure you can make it work by modifying but why would you do that when you can just get C-motion parts with direct fit? Already seen few posts people buying xp parts and then complaining that it requires work and modification.

If you buy them as new, both sets of parts are about as expensive. Maybe people want save few $ and going for the scrap yard for xp parts, but thats not my style when building new +20 000$ sled.

 

[caper11]

There has been enough debate about XP rear arm around the forums, for sure you can make it work by modifying but why would you do that when you can just get C-motion parts with direct fit? Already seen few posts people buying xp parts and then complaining that it requires work and modification.

If you buy them as new, both sets of parts are about as expensive. Maybe people want save few $ and going for the scrap yard for xp parts, but thats not my style when building new +20 000$ sled.

No modifications needed. Again misinformation.
It bolts right in. I personally know two people who have done it. A guy I work with just bought a 2021 turbo and took the xp rear arm out of his 18 and put it In

The xp and the c-motion are the same.

Lots of threads I read said the c-motion wouldn’t work either. 50 bucks in parts is cheaper than 500 IF the off chance it didn’t work. But that what sled mods are all about, trial and error.

Regardless it doesn’t matter to me I just have parts to sell now.
I have a expert ordered anyway, doo made the sled I was going to build, now I have warranty.

 

[Driver]

There was this guy on some FB group claiming that XP rear arm fits, making posts about it. Well after a while he made a new post that it didn't fit and he ordered c-motion parts. He said there is some modifications needed and geometry didn't fit, but that's all I know.

I don't know what's the exact problem with those parts, but like I said there is an easy and trouble free solution for those who want to delete t-motion by using new original parts with high quality. I have made a parts list which I have seen quoted on many forums and groups all over the internet.

For 2023 Doo is offering t-motion delete kit as accessory for G5 which is great. They have clearly seen this trend people deleting t-motion and it awesome to bring factory ready option for this too.