Spindle Chat...

ZRP Engineering

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What a load of crap...
Wow, what a complete load ****!

Thanks for calling me out. Let me rewrite it to be more clear:

The "new" ski doo spindle is snake oil, there is nothing new about it and all of the "geometry" changes with the ski they talk about do not exist and the "new" ski rubber is exactly the same as the old one.
The expert spindle is exactly the same as the standard spindle in geometry, it is just a little bit lighter weight.
It is my belief that the spindles on the sled in production are different than what was on the sleds in the spring that all the magazines wrote about but that part is just my speculation.
 

grich8888

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I purchased and installed the new expert spindles with the thought that they are lighter AND of a different geometry. I weighed both and the new expert spindles are only 200g (not 400g which is about 0.5# per spindle) lighter and I could not see any geometry differences. I agree with ZRP on this, aside from some weight changes, they are the same. However, the new rubber piece is a little larger and I installed it to compare it vs the stock(non-expert) ski rubber. The NEW ski rubber is better and different (when compared to my 19 and 17's), it limits ski slop and is heavier(thicker) than the previous ski rubbers. I think buying the ski rubber is worthwhile but not the spindles from BRP. We have one sled with the munster ski bushing stiffeners and one with durapro ski rubber. Both are much better than the stock setup. My preference is the durapro but the munster probably limits ski movement the most.

I was excited to get the new spindles. I run SLP Mowaks so the new ski rubber doesn't help me out. I too am interested in the ZRP spindles including the lifted 1.25 spindles that allow more clearance and how I would set up my shocks to adjust for that change. ZRP thanks for the info
 
Feb 7, 2009
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Wabush, Labrador
What a load of crap from someone selling an aftermarket spindle! First of all you say the geometry is exactly the same but then say it's .5" shorter. HELLO, that is a geometry change. Second you say it's the exact same spindle as the trail sled but it's lighter so how can it be the exact same. You also say the rubber the exact same however ironically one needs to modify a pre-2020 ski for it to fit. Seems physically impossible for it to be the exact same and to require a modification to the ski! You claim it makes no difference for deep snow yet the new spindle/rubber combo clearly keeps the ski tip down which prevents the front of the sled from wanting to climb.

I don't even know what you are trying to claim in your last statement as there is only 1 new spindle that Skidoo and everyone on the forum is talking about, It comes on the Summit Expert and Freeride 2020 sleds, also available in the 2020 catalog as a kit (spindle and rubber).

Wow, what a complete load ****!

I guess you missed that post from Norona... There is no change in geometry with the "new" expert spindle dude.. sorry if you are butt hurt because you bought into the Ski-doo marketing garbage... but its very true.
 

Ski-doo#1

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Orange ski has tabs and is a 2017-2019, 2020 non expert/freeride

black ski is 2020 expert/freeride

t-shaped ski rubber is 2017-2019, 2020 non expert/freeride

i-shaped ski rubber is 2020 expert/freeride/spindle kit

2020 expert/freeride spindles are the same as 2019 backcountry spindles

these are facts
 

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Feb 18, 2009
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I guess you missed that post from Norona... There is no change in geometry with the "new" expert spindle dude.. sorry if you are butt hurt because you bought into the Ski-doo marketing garbage... but its very true.
I'm not butt hurt at all. I was just calling out the bs post by ZRP. It literally made no sense, he would say something then contradict what he just wrote. An in the end he claimed the new spindle/rubber combo makes zero difference which is false. Sure maybe a aftermarket rubbers do the same thing but that does not change the complete BS that ZRP posted in the post I replied to...

I did buy the new spindle kit which arrived today. I can't see any difference in geometry but I had a tweaked spindle and wanted black spindles anyways (quoted $150 to powdercoat). The afteramarket rubbers cost $100 and I can get a good Skidoo discount (paid $170 for new spindle kit) so despite no actual geometry change the new rubbers will be an improvement and so I have an extra $70 into replacement spindles that are black. Well worth it for me!
 

Norona

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It really seems as if Ski-doo made a change over the summer or something. Because all these reps/ambassadors were talking new geometry 6mo ago, I personally don’t think they would say anything different then what they were briefed at the 2020 launch. and now it’s same just stiffer ski rubber.???What a bunch of BS is what this seems like. I’m excited to ride my new expert, but would be nice if ski-doo explained what and if there were any changes made compared to what people were told last spring.
The spindle is the exact same as all the last P3 sleds we rode in videos last season and the ones anyone else rode. It is not to pull the wool over your eyes. In this instance it is a mistake that was put out there with a geometry change in the sppndle, which in fact was never done. The spindle was always just lighter and accepted the new ski rubber that is not available on its own, there was never a difference in the ski, however the ski has been changed to accept the new rubber, you can use a ski from 2017-19 and insert the new spindle and rubber however you will have to trim some plastic, it is something we can not do videos on or talk about as if we do and someone gets it wrong they blame us. Those are the facts, you can dream up anything else you want but we did not have something different and then not included it. Don't mind the salesman comment one bit, I don't care and never have for titles, however what I have always done and will continue to do is provide the most up to date information we can to customers. The video of bret is from the night of club so as you can see anyone, even the professor can make a mistake, that is it and it is in no way meant to confuse people or convince them to buy something they do not need. Your dealer can take your product back, if you feel you were taken for a ride or someone will definitely want it. I have told many customers if they want to try the munster or duropro rubbers to try those first, at every show I attend. The spindles are cheaper than what one use to cost and only way to get out new rubbers. I love the new spindle/rubber combo and have added it to my 2020 Summit X, I know guys say big deal but even norona is governed by a budget, its huge but still don't want to blow the whole budget on spindles, cause still got to gas up the ferrari! Sad with all the name calling, I often question how we can be so short with each other in our own sport and it is a big reason why it is so easy to shut us out of areas as we can't even treat the very people in our own sport with some respect. Have a great winter, cheers dave
 

Summit74

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Thank you Dave for the explanation. That really sucks that many folks were led to believe of a geometry change and etc, myself included, but anyone in business knows that miscommunication is probably the biggest downfall to business, government or any industry for that matter. Anyway can’t wait to ride my expert, I think it’s just us mountain sledders waiting for snow and the anticipation of the season gets everyone ramped up lol. See ya in the Pow as you say!
 

grich8888

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Dave,
I love your posts and explanations and appreciate that you take time to run through these forums and these posts despite at times, people bagging on things you say. You are awesome. Thank you for the videos and in this situation helping to explain the spindles.
 

Reg2view

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Thanks for clarifying Dave and owning it. Doo pushed some fabbed up magic kit marketecture again, marketing peeps getting ahead of the R&D team. Usually it's buyer beware - but they deserve to get slapped down on this one.
 
Jul 31, 2014
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I have a new spindle kit at home waiting to go on my 2018 Summit. If I had known it was just the rubbers and some weight I probably would have spent the money on something else, likely some riding boots for the wife. Maybe I'll wait a little while before I put them on.
 

Ski-doo#1

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I have a new spindle kit at home waiting to go on my 2018 Summit. If I had known it was just the rubbers and some weight I probably would have spent the money on something else, likely some riding boots for the wife. Maybe I'll wait a little while before I put them on.

I somewhat feel the same way, however, this kit at $230 USD with two spindles and rubbers vs one spindle at $180 USD is a good deal. All that is new about the spindle is that it works with the new ski rubber. Bummed there isn't more to it as well but I am confident it will work as marketed and if so it will be worth $230 USD IMO. Then hope for longevity as well.
 
Feb 7, 2009
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Wabush, Labrador
So I just checked the microfiche and my 154 Backcountry XRS has the same part number spindle as the expert!! It wasn't even advertised this way. Some strange goins ons at Ski-doo I tell ya. In the accessory book, it lists that the "new" spindle will work on a backcountry.. haha no chit eh?
Direct quote from the Ski-doo Website on the Summit Expert page. "
A MORE CONFIDENT RIDE
Revised ski spindle and ski stopper for more predictable handling and a confidence-inspiring ride on steep sidehills and rough terrain.
"
What an interesting concept.. a spindle originally designed for trail/crossover is now the standard in "expert" level summits.
With this concrete evidence, I'll be ordering durapros now for sure!
 
Feb 18, 2009
174
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43
The spindle is the exact same as all the last P3 sleds we rode in videos last season and the ones anyone else rode. It is not to pull the wool over your eyes. In this instance it is a mistake that was put out there with a geometry change in the sppndle, which in fact was never done. The spindle was always just lighter and accepted the new ski rubber that is not available on its own, there was never a difference in the ski, however the ski has been changed to accept the new rubber, you can use a ski from 2017-19 and insert the new spindle and rubber however you will have to trim some plastic, it is something we can not do videos on or talk about as if we do and someone gets it wrong they blame us. Those are the facts, you can dream up anything else you want but we did not have something different and then not included it. Don't mind the salesman comment one bit, I don't care and never have for titles, however what I have always done and will continue to do is provide the most up to date information we can to customers. The video of bret is from the night of club so as you can see anyone, even the professor can make a mistake, that is it and it is in no way meant to confuse people or convince them to buy something they do not need. Your dealer can take your product back, if you feel you were taken for a ride or someone will definitely want it. I have told many customers if they want to try the munster or duropro rubbers to try those first, at every show I attend. The spindles are cheaper than what one use to cost and only way to get out new rubbers. I love the new spindle/rubber combo and have added it to my 2020 Summit X, I know guys say big deal but even norona is governed by a budget, its huge but still don't want to blow the whole budget on spindles, cause still got to gas up the ferrari! Sad with all the name calling, I often question how we can be so short with each other in our own sport and it is a big reason why it is so easy to shut us out of areas as we can't even treat the very people in our own sport with some respect. Have a great winter, cheers dave
Thanks for the info. Good to clear the air but one correction. The new rubber does NOT require any trimming on the ski! It fits in exactly like the original stock rubber, just has a little more material on it. Pretty messed up if you can't just buy this part as it would do the exact same thing as the kit. I needed a new spindle and wanted black so I"m fine with purchasing the kit but the updated rubbers is all you need.
 

Norona

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So I just checked the microfiche and my 154 Backcountry XRS has the same part number spindle as the expert!! It wasn't even advertised this way. Some strange goins ons at Ski-doo I tell ya. In the accessory book, it lists that the "new" spindle will work on a backcountry.. haha no chit eh?
Direct quote from the Ski-doo Website on the Summit Expert page. "
A MORE CONFIDENT RIDE
Revised ski spindle and ski stopper for more predictable handling and a confidence-inspiring ride on steep sidehills and rough terrain.
"
What an interesting concept.. a spindle originally designed for trail/crossover is now the standard in "expert" level summits.
With this concrete evidence, I'll be ordering durapros now for sure!
Have you ridden the EXPERT?
Thanks for the info. Good to clear the air but one correction. The new rubber does NOT require any trimming on the ski! It fits in exactly like the original stock rubber, just has a little more material on it. Pretty messed up if you can't just buy this part as it would do the exact same thing as the kit. I needed a new spindle and wanted black so I"m fine with purchasing the kit but the updated rubbers is all you need.
That is good to know, what year is your sled? Ya I was told the ski would need trimming if it was a 17-19, but that is good it does not need it, I also just installed the new spindles and rubbers on my 2020 summit x, now we just need snow. cheers dave
 
Feb 7, 2009
898
321
63
32
Wabush, Labrador
Have you ridden the EXPERT?

That is good to know, what year is your sled? Ya I was told the ski would need trimming if it was a 17-19, but that is good it does not need it, I also just installed the new spindles and rubbers on my 2020 summit x, now we just need snow. cheers dave
Nope haven't driven one, Ski-doo won't do test rides in the east..
However I'd imagine it would ride very similar to my 2017 with durapro ski rubbers.
 
Feb 18, 2009
174
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Have you ridden the EXPERT?

That is good to know, what year is your sled? Ya I was told the ski would need trimming if it was a 17-19, but that is good it does not need it, I also just installed the new spindles and rubbers on my 2020 summit x, now we just need snow. cheers dave
I have a 2018 Summit X 154
 

ZRP Engineering

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So I just checked the microfiche and my 154 Backcountry XRS has the same part number spindle as the expert!! It wasn't even advertised this way. Some strange goins ons at Ski-doo I tell ya. In the accessory book, it lists that the "new" spindle will work on a backcountry.. haha no chit eh?
Direct quote from the Ski-doo Website on the Summit Expert page. "
A MORE CONFIDENT RIDE
Revised ski spindle and ski stopper for more predictable handling and a confidence-inspiring ride on steep sidehills and rough terrain.
"
What an interesting concept.. a spindle originally designed for trail/crossover is now the standard in "expert" level summits.
With this concrete evidence, I'll be ordering durapros now for sure!
We believe this is either an error, or that the BCX spindle was what they originally had planned to have on the Expert as the "new" spindle.
 
Feb 7, 2009
898
321
63
32
Wabush, Labrador
We believe this is either an error, or that the BCX spindle was what they originally had planned to have on the Expert as the "new" spindle.
I've read numerous times that the 19 backcountry spindle is what they used on the expert.. Only time will tell, I pick up my bcx on the 21st, I'll take some pics and post them up then.

I checked and the ski rubber part number is the same as well. Has me a little excited. haha.. don't ruin it for me! jk.
 
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