Spindle Chat...

fugly27

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Here’s a better video of it on his Instagram.
He says and demonstrates the spindle has different geometry. I would take his word before Norona the salesman.

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caper11

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Pretty sure He is talking about the rubber. The different design rubber and ski prevents the ski tip from pointing up in a sidehill. Which in turn is designed to work with the newer spindle, and the reason why the new bushing will not work with the older spindle.
A same trick we were doing with the Munster ski bushing saver.
 

fugly27

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Pretty sure He is talking about the rubber. The different design rubber and ski prevents the ski tip from pointing up in a sidehill. Which in turn is designed to work with the newer spindle, and the reason why the new bushing will not work with the older spindle.
A same trick we were doing with the Munster ski bushing saver.
Well I guess you have a answer for everything.
 

caper11

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Well I guess you have a answer for everything.
Lmao! Sorry, If you dont like the answers move on. Norona posted a fact and I believe him from the info I have looked at and gathered.

Guys are asking for more info from the pics you provided, but you are not delivering.

Im sorry but does it say anywhere that the spindle has a different geometry??? The new bushing on the ski changes the front end geometry in a side hill.

Yah still didn’t answer my question on where that raw spindle came off of.
2017 summit SP maybe?

 

ThePennySaved

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Install one and see if the new spindle will push the ski more forward than the old spindle, im also wondering what MTN sled had a raw looking spindle anyway? 2017??? The 2019 spindle is different yet.
And @caper11, what is the difference between the 17 and 19 spindles? I haven't compared them closely but I have a 17 and a 19 and haven't noticed a difference.
 

caper11

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And @caper11, what is the difference between the 17 and 19 spindles? I haven't compared them closely but I have a 17 and a 19 and haven't noticed a difference.
If I remember correctly, the 2017 and 2018 summit had holes in the back rib of the spindle. The 19 does not have that on the summit. 19 was also the year for the straight rail, a change that was not announced till the sleds hit the showroom floor.

 
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fugly27

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Lmao! Sorry, If you dont like the answers move on. Norona posted a fact and I believe him from the info I have looked at and gathered.

Guys are asking for more info from the pics you provided, but you are not delivering.

Im sorry but does it say anywhere that the spindle has a different geometry??? The new bushing on the ski changes the front end geometry in a side hill.

Yah still didn’t answer my question on where that raw spindle came off of.
2017 summit SP maybe?

I first have to say you come off as quite a know it all, you can't have many friends. First off I only got the spindles because I wanted black ones so for the price why not try out the new expert package. I took pictures because when you are physically looking at the two there seem to be differences . I'm not an engineer i dont really give two ****s on the geometry i liked the way my sled handled. I'm not gonna bend over backwards and take measurements. So here is what i did for you Mr Caper. I personally emailed someone who works with skidoo and asked the question so that everyone on this forum could go to sleep knowing the truth. Short story if someone wants to change the handling of there sled just go buy a set of the new rubber bushings.
 

caper11

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I first have to say you come off as quite a know it all, you can't have many friends. First off I only got the spindles because I wanted black ones so for the price why not try out the new expert package. I took pictures because when you are physically looking at the two there seem to be differences . I'm not an engineer i dont really give two ****s on the geometry i liked the way my sled handled. I'm not gonna bend over backwards and take measurements. So here is what i did for you Mr Caper. I personally emailed someone who works with skidoo and asked the question so that everyone on this forum could go to sleep knowing the truth. Short story if someone wants to change the handling of there sled just go buy a set of the new rubber bushings.
You called Norona a salesman, and me a “know it all”.
Is that the person you are? Do you call everyone names that you dont agree with?

So far the info you have provided thus far, has not helped this thread at all, but just stirred up controversy.


If you infact sent a email, You are not doing it for me. It does not matter to me if the spindle was different in geometry or not. Guys were asking questions and I tried to explain what my thoughts were on the vids that were provided, but no info provided from the guy who actually had a set of spindles in his hands.
Got labeled as a “know it all” in the process.
Disappointing really, If the roles were reversed. I would have bent over backwards to help a fellow member with their questions If i had a new spindle and a old spindle on hand.


Have a safe sledding season.


Fyi, I have a 2019 “expert” in my garage. We have been doing those mods to the G4 since they were released. Some guys did the short tunnel, Most stayed with the standard length tunnel.
 

Shortline

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Here's my attempt at trying to show the two spindles. The yellow one is on a 2018 Summit X. The black one is the "new" spindle. My conclusion is that the geometry is the same.

It's very difficult to take a true orthogonal picture or movie. Perspective just makes it impossible. However, in the video the bore at the ski bolt fit very well over the existing bolt head (not very loose) and I hold the top of the spindle as best I can in proper alignment.

Watching the Brett video he specifically says "improved" and "ski spindle geometry" so I have to admit that I was thinking the new spindles would be different. Very misleading. I thought for sure all the marketing hype wouldn't be simply about a ski rubber.

Spindle Comparison
 

caper11

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Here's my attempt at trying to show the two spindles. The yellow one is on a 2018 Summit X. The black one is the "new" spindle. My conclusion is that the geometry is the same.

It's very difficult to take a true orthogonal picture or movie. Perspective just makes it impossible. However, in the video the bore at the ski bolt fit very well over the existing bolt head (not very loose) and I hold the top of the spindle as best I can in proper alignment.

Watching the Brett video he specifically says "improved" and "ski spindle geometry" so I have to admit that I was thinking the new spindles would be different. Very misleading. I thought for sure all the marketing hype wouldn't be simply about a ski rubber.

Spindle Comparison
Thank you for taking the time to do that and posting your findings.

I have confirmed today with other skidoo guys “in the know” that the spindle is just lighter.
 

ZRP Engineering

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Here's my attempt at trying to show the two spindles. The yellow one is on a 2018 Summit X. The black one is the "new" spindle. My conclusion is that the geometry is the same.

It's very difficult to take a true orthogonal picture or movie. Perspective just makes it impossible. However, in the video the bore at the ski bolt fit very well over the existing bolt head (not very loose) and I hold the top of the spindle as best I can in proper alignment.

Watching the Brett video he specifically says "improved" and "ski spindle geometry" so I have to admit that I was thinking the new spindles would be different. Very misleading. I thought for sure all the marketing hype wouldn't be simply about a ski rubber.

Spindle Comparison
The "new" ski doo spindle is snake oil, there is nothing new about it and all of the "geometry" changes with the ski they talk about do not exist and the "new" ski rubber is exactly the same as the old one.
The expert spindle is exactly the same as the standard spindle in geometry, it is just a little bit lighter weight.
 
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The "new" ski doo spindle is snake oil, there is nothing new about it and all of the "geometry" changes with the ski they talk about do not exist.
The "new" spindle is .5" shorter and is the exact same one that comes on the trail sleds. It is not the right geometry for the 36" front end plain and simple. The bottom of the ski that touches the rubber is identical to the proper summit spindle and the "new" ski rubber is exactly the same as the old one.
This spindle might help on trail, but in deep snow it is no doubt going to hinder performance.

Now the real kicker is the spindles in the flyer and shortlines video are yet another spindle that appears to only be a bit lighter but the same as the geometry as the standard spindle.

Ski doo sure is not making this easy!
What a load of crap from someone selling an aftermarket spindle! First of all you say the geometry is exactly the same but then say it's .5" shorter. HELLO, that is a geometry change. Second you say it's the exact same spindle as the trail sled but it's lighter so how can it be the exact same. You also say the rubber the exact same however ironically one needs to modify a pre-2020 ski for it to fit. Seems physically impossible for it to be the exact same and to require a modification to the ski! You claim it makes no difference for deep snow yet the new spindle/rubber combo clearly keeps the ski tip down which prevents the front of the sled from wanting to climb.

I don't even know what you are trying to claim in your last statement as there is only 1 new spindle that Skidoo and everyone on the forum is talking about, It comes on the Summit Expert and Freeride 2020 sleds, also available in the 2020 catalog as a kit (spindle and rubber).

Wow, what a complete load ****!
 

Summit74

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It really seems as if Ski-doo made a change over the summer or something. Because all these reps/ambassadors were talking new geometry 6mo ago, I personally don’t think they would say anything different then what they were briefed at the 2020 launch. and now it’s same just stiffer ski rubber.???What a bunch of BS is what this seems like. I’m excited to ride my new expert, but would be nice if ski-doo explained what and if there were any changes made compared to what people were told last spring.
 

NHRoadking

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It really seems as if Ski-doo made a change over the summer or something. Because all these reps/ambassadors were talking new geometry 6mo ago, I personally don’t think they would say anything different then what they were briefed at the 2020 launch. and now it’s same just stiffer ski rubber.???What a bunch of BS is what this seems like. I’m excited to ride my new expert, but would be nice if ski-doo explained what and if there were any changes made compared to what people were told last spring.

What he said.
 
Aug 8, 2011
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I measured an expert and a 2019 summit sitting side by side on the floor. There is a geometry change. Top a arm mount location is rearward on the spindle roughly 1/4 inch. This stands the spindle up more vertically with respect to the fixed a arm mount locations vs the ski bolt. It also has the slight effect of helping to limit ski motion upward due to the slightly revised lower foot angle that contacts the rubber. Mind you this foot angle is only changed through the spindle being in a more vertical position from the top a arm mount location change.
 

ZRP Engineering

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ZRP... I'm interested in the benefits of the 2 spindles that you are selling vs what Ski Doo has out there.

Ace
The biggest thing is having the ski in a neutral leverage position vs the a-arms. The original summit spindle had the ski leading in front, the "new" one has it trailing. One of the reasons Cat and Polaris have better rider feedback when sidehilling is that the ski on those models is in-line or neutral.
Our standard spindle does this by moving the ski bolt back to an in line position.
Our taller spindle does the same thing, and is identical geometry, but is 1" taller to give the bulk head and tunnel more clearance, to match the Axys RMK, and improve the ability of the sled to work in deep snow so long as steps are taken to control rear suspension transfer.
Rear suspension transfer can be controlled through the rear suspension, zmotion or coil over or both, or by lowering the front end. It is out assumption that ski doo choose the easy route of lowering the front end on the Expert in order to limit transfer and gain more ski pressure.
 

Ace Freely

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The biggest thing is having the ski in a neutral leverage position vs the a-arms. The original summit spindle had the ski leading in front, the "new" one has it trailing. One of the reasons Cat and Polaris have better rider feedback when sidehilling is that the ski on those models is in-line or neutral.
Our standard spindle does this by moving the ski bolt back to an in line position.
Our taller spindle does the same thing, and is identical geometry, but is 1" taller to give the bulk head and tunnel more clearance, to match the Axys RMK, and improve the ability of the sled to work in deep snow so long as steps are taken to control rear suspension transfer.
Rear suspension transfer can be controlled through the rear suspension, zmotion or coil over or both, or by lowering the front end. It is out assumption that ski doo choose the easy route of lowering the front end on the Expert in order to limit transfer and gain more ski pressure.

Thanks for the feedback...if someone were to try out your higher spindles, what suspension recommendations do you have to offer for just putting on the spindles?

Recommendations if you put on the spindles and have your Skid Relocation Bracket?

Ace
 

Ace Freely

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...as the front of the skid is raised, it appears that ski pressure would be greater. To reduce this, wouldn't you have to put more pressure on the front track shock, there for INCREASING said attack angle?

.. trying to wrap my head around it!

Ace
 
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