Sold "As Is".... Small Claims Court later

[Wintersplinter]

Hey Guys-

I was looking for some input about a situation I'm dealing with. About 8 months ago my business partner and I decided to sell our 2 extra sleds and trailer and put the money towards a big enclosed trailer. Both machines were running great at the time of sale, but we were both riding newer sleds and we didn't need them anymore. We ended up selling both sleds and a 2 place drive on drive off trailer as a package deal for a little more than $4K- it was a great deal. One of the sleds was a 2001 Mountain Cat 1000 triple, and the other was a 2001 Mountain Cat 800. About a month after the sale I get a certified letter in the mail from the guy that bought the sleds. He tells me that the 1000 blew the motor the first time he took it out, and that he expects me to pay for it or he's going to take me to court. I told him that the sleds were both running fine when I sold them, and that they were sold "as is". I told him I would see him in court. So I'm going to small claims court this week.

Here are some questions I have for anyone willing to respond. We owned and used the 1000 for about 1 1/2 seasons. During that time it ran perfectly. It was dialed in when we bought it, and we left it alone, other than normal maintainance. The shop this guy took it into told him that the motor blew because it was running too lean. The question I have is what are some other factors that could contribute to engine failure that would also appear to be a lean condition? I don't think this jerk has a chance of winning this case, but I want to show up prepared. Thanks

 

[slash]

all parts should appear in court and a court appointed teck should inspect it ,but a used sled is a used sled NO WARRENTY you dont know how he rode it or where or if the carbs where cleaned pryor to use you sead it was not used for a while and he had them for a month and never rode them never touched them he cant win...

 

[OrangeKowJumper]

I would think your already going in the wrong direction by worrying about what caused it to fail. What caused it to fail is irrelevant. He bought it used and I doubt you gave him any warranty with the deal? ..Any use of the machine after transfer of ownership is totally out of your control and you have no idea what this dude did to it, or didn't do to it, before..during..or after he rode it.. .. .it's used. . .stuff happens. ..sure it sucks for him but when he handed you the chek and you signed the title. . it's a done deal and he owns it. . ..the only thing he may have is if you mentioned anything at all about if he has any problems he can give you a call or something . .that might constitute- in his mind anyway- your implying you'd take care of a problem if there was one. ... keep us posted. .it'll be interesting to hear how he presents it in court . .


Johnny

 

[av8er]

simple case of buyer beware

unless he has written proof of some kind of implied warranty or performance guarantee, u have nothing to worry abour simple case of buyer beware.

 

[turboless terry]

In my opinion he is screwed. Especially if it took him a month to tell you it blew up the first day.
I sold an 07 xrs a couple of years ago. Told the guy it was an awesome sled and it had a new motor with about 1000 miles on it since doo had so many troubles with the motor. The guy took it out and it made it about 5 miles before the motor blew. He called me right a way. I put the jets in it that it needed for wisconson since I had it leaned down so that was covered. Needless to say, I bought him a new motor so I could sleep at night. I had buddies say that it was a used sled and I shouldn't have to replace the motor. I told them that I told the guy the sled runs awesome, which it did. It is one thing if the sled ran all day or all week but not 5 miles. I told them to put themselves in his shoes. One of my buddies even thought about buying it. That puts a different light on it. Personally, I think it got moisture in it over the summer. A little inconveniant for the guy who bought it but all in all he was happy. it sucked for me because I just bought a motor for another sled but it was the right thing to do in my situation. Your situation sounds like a whole different deal and it sounds like he should kiss your azz.

 

[Wintersplinter]

I agree with you. If the buyer had approached this differently, I think I would have helped because it would have been the right thing to do. If he had called me sometime that week and told me what happened, I would have looked for the most affordable way to fix it and probably offered to pay for half of it. The sled ran perfect for me for nearly 2 seasons. It was always easy to start, didn't overheat, and it made awesome power. It's still the fastest sled I've ridden (on a flat surface anyways). Those 1000cc triples put out a lot of horse power. Thanks for the response.

 

[Wintersplinter]

I think you're right - I'm looking at it wrong. My first thought when I read his letter threatening to sue if I didn't pay the bill was that the sled was sold "as is". He actually posted in the small claims summons that the reason he was suing was because the snowmobile wasn't properly tuned. That's not my problem. He should have checked that out before he purchased the sled. Based on his logic, why didn't he have a shop look at it before he used it? I personally think it was user error anyways. Thanks for the response.

 

[Wintersplinter]

I'm feeling a little better about the case- thanks guys. Let's just hope the judge has some common sense like everyone else here. I'm still interested to know- what are some other factors that could contribute to engine failure that would look like it was running lean? For instance, I thought about elevation. If the guy was riding at a lower elevation, the sled would run lean, right? Stuff like this is just the nature of the sport. I've blown the motor on a sled my first trip out on it, but I wasn't dumb enough to think the seller should pay for it. Snowmobiling is different from other motorsports. You have to pay attention to how your sled is running all of the time, and make adjustments as needed. That little 60 cubic inch motor (1000 cc) was putting out 205 HP- It's amazing that the 2 stroke motors last as long as they do.

 

[Turbo11T]

I sold a jet ski to a guy quite a few years back. He drove all the way to southern Mn from the other side of wisconson. When he got there I tried to show him the jet ski. He didn't even really look it over, offered to run out to the lake with him quick(it was like 95 degrees). He said no I am sure it was fine he paid me and was on his way. A month later I get a angry call from the guy saying it doesn't work, he was saying that he was going to call the sheriff and crap. I called him back and asked a few questions about it. For one it had been a month. Why had he not ridden it. . . And with some more investagtion is seems as though he had it running on the trailer(not in the water for some period of time). Could have easily been long enough to melt the o-rings in the head. Then I went on to ask him if It had a fouled plug(i had a ski doo primer on it to aid in starting, was awesome), but you can easily foul the motor if you don't know what your doing. He told me he didn't check the plugs because everything looked pretty new on the top of the motor. At that point I told him I was done with him, he had it for a month, in that time who knows what he did with it? Used is used, and on a 2 stroke They can go down anytime.

Possible reasons for the failure on your old sled.

1. Poor fuel
2. Lower elevation
3. overheated
4. Or just the fact that the sled is obvioulsy "modded" There is a reason companies don't warranty modded sleds, and it is obsurd to think a used modded sled would have any form of warranty.

 

[catmanm7]

Also spring riding, warmer temps could have contributed to this failure. I dont think you will have a problem in court, if you do then that will open up some doors for a whole nother issue.... what is AS IS.
Everyone has has a deal go south on them, if both parties are understanding and want to work together to fix it, then fine, but if I get a letter threatening to sue, kiss my a$$. Tell us the outcome, if you lose, then maybe ill start sueing the sellers that I have bought stuff from.... J/K

 

[turbolover]

I sold a bike to a guy years ago for $100. I told him that it did run but not very good, it needed some work.

The idiot took it straight to the dealer and ran up a $400+ bill. He called me and wanted me to pay it.

I told him if he wanted a warranty to give me his Gold Card and PIN #, I'd give him a warranty. He bought a used bike. If he wanted a warranty he should have bought a new one at the dealer.

 

[KMMAC]

Like what is being said,,, what elevation was it set up for? and, what elevation was it ridden at?
How much sled knowledge does this guy have? With buying a used sled one should ALWAYS change filters check jets and needles, slides and the like.

 

[Jeff C]

This is why I make up a bill of sale on everything I sell.......

Just a quick document wityh two copies saying something like:

On___________(Date)

______________(Buyer)

Purchased a ________________ (Describe what he bought)

Vin#_________________

Buyer agrees that there is no implied warranty on this item and is being purchased as-is.

Buyer also agrees to retitle the above item within 48 hours of the date of this agreement.

_____________________ Seller signature

_____________________ Buyer signature

_____________________ Date of sale



Before he gets there, fill out all the information for him except his signature. Both of you sign both copies, grab your cash and he is on his way.......

This eliminates any possibility of what you are going through..........


This guy does not have a chance..........

 

[WyoBoy1000]

I know in 01 the 800 had a recall on the pistons so I would assume the 1000 did also, most I saw would fail around 1800 miles. I bought one and it did after a ride and also needed a new clutch. I asked for some help but I had already talked the guy down on the price a few hundred so it was a wash and a "USED SLED".

Just the fact that those years had problems will eliminate responsibility on your part the guy should have known what he was buying, (you might want to warn him about it on the 800 just to be a good guy).

Other factors would be oil,(if he forgot to put some in) elevation, fuel, temp, the guy can't prove he put oil in it (the right oil), never got it hot, pulled the plugs and jetted it right for his area, warmed it up properly, put the right fuel in it, clutched it to rpm, can he even prove it went down on the first ride. I have seen people buy a sled and the first thing they do is unload it and let it rip, cold and usually at a lower elevation than one would want to try and hit a 100mph.

 

[Trax 2 Treadz]

http://www.snowtechmagazine.com/articles/2001/baseline/baseline.php

That is the problem with a carbed sled, they are in constant need of tuning as per the riding conditions at the time.

 

[firecat99]

Any sled will run good when sitting but i know i just went through the same thing (my error) but I bought 08 IQR 800r off a guy and told me the sled was mint well i got it home (traded plus cash in the summer time) looked it all through everything was nice, well winter flys and i know about the timing dial and everything as i have owned many race sleds before well the sled fried a piston after 500feet. Well I called up the guy and told him what happened and asked him if he could replace the pistons after we talked and he realized it was his fault and had the timing set at A so +3 advanced. Well I got the "as is" deal and he was right it was a "as is" deal, I said thats fine pistons are not a whole lot for the sled but its sad you could not pay for them but whatever and let him on his way. "AS IS" is what it is, I have been shot down a few times mostly on race sleds on how they ran and it really does suck, but if buddy dont get back or do anything about it for where he is riding then it is his fault.

 

[fishtank]

The buyer should really be asking these type of questions before buying. Even taking it for a test run if possible and and least starting it up until it warms up to make sure everything seems to run ok.

If the seller has nothing to hide then he wont mind at all.

 

[harrysmith500]

Well how did it go?

 

[catnfool]

btw, old gas will smoke them too!! A perfect 800 doo sat for the summer, melted a hole in a piston first 100' the next winter. this new gas is junk.