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Question re: high elevation clutching / weights - NA sled

sledhed

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So... hypothetical: is it possible / reasonable for a modified normally-aspirated Axys 800 or 850 (lets say stock bore, lightweight drivetrain parts, possibly porting and piping and head) to be able to pull 74 gram weights at 10K+ feet elevation? And perform well? My SLP piped Axys is at 10-66s right now at 5000+ feet if I recall what is in there correctly. "Asking for a friend".
 

Over budget

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So... hypothetical: is it possible / reasonable for a modified normally-aspirated Axys 800 or 850 (lets say stock bore, lightweight drivetrain parts, possibly porting and piping and head) to be able to pull 74 gram weights at 10K+ feet elevation? And perform well? My SLP piped Axys is at 10-66s right now at 5000+ feet if I recall what is in there correctly. "Asking for a friend".
68 grams came in my 2020 and 2021 850s you will never pull 74 grams at even 7000 ft let alone 10.000. I have 66 grams in both of mine and I ride at 10.000 and above
 

sledhed

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68 grams came in my 2020 and 2021 850s you will never pull 74 grams at even 7000 ft let alone 10.000. I have 66 grams in both of mine and I ride at 10.000 and above
I was thinking the same thing, but - again hypothetical - what if you put a steeper helix and stronger spring in the secondary, not saying it would work well all across the powerband even on a ported motor with a head and pipe (maybe twin pipes on an 850)... even remotely possible?
 
E
Aug 20, 2011
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I was thinking the same thing, but - again hypothetical - what if you put a steeper helix and stronger spring in the secondary, not saying it would work well all across the powerband even on a ported motor with a head and pipe (maybe twin pipes on an 850)... even remotely possible?
If you wanted to try you would need a shallower helix if anything. Or a lighter spring. The problem is clutching is a balancing act of weights to keep the rpm down, spring pressure to keep the belt from slipping excessively, and helix to control shift out. You cant just throw an extreme of either of those in place and expect it to work anywhere near properly. My turbo doesnt even run 74 g at 10k feet, so i really dont see an na sled doing so.
 
S
Dec 5, 2010
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Sḵwxwú7mesh, BC
I'm just trying to wrap my head around the new clutch kit I installed .. riding 5000 ft on a 850 .. started me off on 71.5 and I was over revving, so I stepped up to 73, haven't ridden it yet with the added magnets... 310 finish primary spring .. how the hell am I able to pull this much more weight with a bone stock motor ?
 

sledhed

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I'm just trying to wrap my head around the new clutch kit I installed .. riding 5000 ft on a 850 .. started me off on 71.5 and I was over revving, so I stepped up to 73, haven't ridden it yet with the added magnets... 310 finish primary spring .. how the hell am I able to pull this much more weight with a bone stock motor ?
Sweet... going up to 10K any time soon?
 
U
Nov 29, 2007
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My guess is the finish angle on your helix (in the kit) is 32-36 degrees that's why you can run that heavy of weight. put your stock secondary spring and helix back in and you will be under your target rpm by 600-800
 

Wheel House Motorsports

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Overall weight is meaningless when comparing different weight profiles/different weight distribution. You could pack 10 grams around the pin and have almost no affect in overall shift force where 10g out at the tip provides a significantly different shift profile. This is purely speaking on weight shape/mass distribution. Spring rates as well as helix profiles greatly affects what size weight will be needed. Unless you are comparing the same profile weights to one another your comparing serious apples to oranges and are going to find yourself confused 100% of the time.

Most non turbo mods at best would allow you to pull 2-4g more then your stock sled assuming apples to apples weight profile.
 
S
Dec 5, 2010
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Sḵwxwú7mesh, BC
thanks for the replies .. learning every day about the dark arts of clutching !!

I thought the weights and primary spring were the only things affecting max rpm (vs hp) .. but yes if you put more load via the helix and secondary spring that would make a difference as well ...
 
A
Nov 26, 2007
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There are many variables in clutching, you must keep an open mind and clutch the sled to you and your riding style. I just went through a learning curve on an 850 I bought from a friend. The previous owner thought the clutching was perfect, and in fact it was perfect for him and his riding style. He tuned for 7,000 - 8,600', pulled a hill with a relatively cool belt watched the tach and called it good. I would say I run the sled roughly 10 times as hard, heat the belts and clutches far above what he has ever done and probably weigh 20-30 more pounds with all my gear on, I also ride and tune for 8,600' - 10.500'. His perfect clutching turned into a belt slipping belt destroying nightmare for myself. When my RPM's would fall off at 10,000' the primary squeeze and backshift also fell off, resulting in belt slip. I sat on the hill, showed a clutching wizard my problem and we came up with a very simple next run trial. Our solution to the issue was run a couple less degrees of Helix angle with a stiffer secondary spring, resulting in more squeeze, cooler belts, better backshift, and about 150 more RPM's. I was able to achieve the result I wanted without going to lighter flyweights. This simple change resulted in the primary nearly cleaning itself in the first 10 miles. Had I not changed a thing I would more than likely had the fluctuating RPM's drive me nuts, had to clean sheaves daily and buy a new belt every few rides. Keeping an open problem solving mind is very important, what works for one may not work for another with an entirely different riding style.
 

Sheetmetalfab

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There are many variables in clutching, you must keep an open mind and clutch the sled to you and your riding style. I just went through a learning curve on an 850 I bought from a friend. The previous owner thought the clutching was perfect, and in fact it was perfect for him and his riding style. He tuned for 7,000 - 8,600', pulled a hill with a relatively cool belt watched the tach and called it good. I would say I run the sled roughly 10 times as hard, heat the belts and clutches far above what he has ever done and probably weigh 20-30 more pounds with all my gear on, I also ride and tune for 8,600' - 10.500'. His perfect clutching turned into a belt slipping belt destroying nightmare for myself. When my RPM's would fall off at 10,000' the primary squeeze and backshift also fell off, resulting in belt slip. I sat on the hill, showed a clutching wizard my problem and we came up with a very simple next run trial. Our solution to the issue was run a couple less degrees of Helix angle with a stiffer secondary spring, resulting in more squeeze, cooler belts, better backshift, and about 150 more RPM's. I was able to achieve the result I wanted without going to lighter flyweights. This simple change resulted in the primary nearly cleaning itself in the first 10 miles. Had I not changed a thing I would more than likely had the fluctuating RPM's drive me nuts, had to clean sheaves daily and buy a new belt every few rides. Keeping an open problem solving mind is very important, what works for one may not work for another with an entirely different riding style.

Nailed it.

Thinking you “ride hard” but actually only in short bursts isn’t the same as someone who rides hard continuously.

Local shop puts out a turbo clutch kit for the masses, and it works for the casual or low intensity riders.

Me and my brother both only had 40 mile belt life........(silber clutching or local shop “best setup”)

Switch to indydan clutching and get 300-350 mile belt life with better backshift, rpm hold and overall performance..........
 
A
Nov 26, 2007
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Elko, NV.
Back to your original question slehead, a highly modified 800 or 850 might run 2 grams heavier than stock. A big factor is many mod sleds will run at a higher peak RPM, your original 10-66's for instance now shift harder and quicker because of the increase in RPM's, you'll get increased performance by not changing a thing or possibly just running a couple degree steeper helix. Lately I've seen some really odd set-ups on some turboed sleds, they are running extremely heavy flyweights (78 grams) and still over revving a bit, and not running all that quick, they just keep throwing weight at it but should looking to their secondary instead. In the turboed dragon days I had a buddy who ran 70 gram lightning weights and a quick shifting steep angle secondary, there aren't many sleds today that could touch that thing.
 
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