New thread engine fail discussion

[byeatts]

Good Info ChadX, There was also an info sheet on polaris 10/40 posted . we know the sae is suggested by the bike manufacture and they build the crank clearance for the suggested oil. However polaris does not make dirtbikes and that oils is likely for their own machines . side by sides ect <Not motorcycle engines for snowbikes which are all by a different manufacture .KTM suggest 10/50 , What does Yamaha recommend?

 

[Chadx]

Polaris states that their Timbersled 0w-40 is formulated for snowbike use. It is JASO MA/MA2 certified and has a nice additives package. Agreed that they don't make motorcycles (anymore) but it's not hard to have a dirtbike oil formulated and branded. None of the aftermarket oil companies (klotz, mobil 1, royal purple, amsoil) manfacture cars, motorcycles, or motors in general and make good oils. It is up to the user to ensure an adequate weight oil is run. In the case of dirtbikes, that is typically 40 and 50 weights.

Don't know that it is worth the price for the timbersled oil, particularly for those changing oil every or every other ride, when there are many 0w-40 annd 5w-40 oils that perform well. Not that I'm cheap. I will pay for better performance, but failures are few and far enough between that I don't think we have an "inadequate oil epidemic" on our hands. Ha. For example, bearing/crank failures don't seem any more frequent than for summer/wheels-on use and seem more related to performance builds or hours, but maybe snowbike engine failures are simply under reported.

Byeatts,
To answer your Yamaha question, in the owner's manual for a 2020 YZ450F, the recommended viscosity grades are:
10w-40
10w-50
15w-50
20w-40
20w-50

In my opinion, any good quality 0w-40, 5w-40, 10w-40 weight oil, that performs well in load tests, will do the job for snowbiking my bike.
...though that oil temp and temp-reactive polymer discussion is creeping around my brain. But again, doesn't seem like oil-related failures are happening left and right so no evidence that concerns me at this time.

 

[byeatts]

Polaris states that their Timbersled 0w-40 is formulated for snowbike use. It is JASO MA/MA2 certified and has a nice additives package. Agreed that they don't make motorcycles (anymore) but it's not hard to have a dirtbike oil formulated and branded. None of the aftermarket oil companies (klotz, mobil 1, royal purple, amsoil) manfacture cars, motorcycles, or motors in general and make good oils. It is up to the user to ensure an adequate weight oil is run. In the case of dirtbikes, that is typically 40 and 50 weights.

Don't know that it is worth the price for the timbersled oil, particularly for those changing oil every or every other ride, when there are many 0w-40 annd 5w-40 oils that perform well. Not that I'm cheap. I will pay for better performance, but failures are few and far enough between that I don't think we have an "inadequate oil epidemic" on our hands. Ha. For example, bearing/crank failures don't seem any more frequent than for summer/wheels-on use and seem more related to performance builds or hours, but maybe snowbike engine failures are simply under reported.

Byeatts,
To answer your Yamaha question, in the owner's manual for a 2020 YZ450F, the recommended viscosity grades are:
10w-40
10w-50
15w-50
20w-40
20w-50

In my opinion, any good quality 0w-40, 5w-40, 10w-40 weight oil, that performs well in load tests, will do the job for snowbiking my bike.
...though that oil temp and temp-reactive polymer discussion is creeping around my brain. But again, doesn't seem like oil-related failures are happening left and right so no evidence that concerns me at this time.

My point is that Polaris brands their oil as Approved for snowbike use.What they should say is it is approved for snowbike use If your bike manufacture recommends the same viscosity weight oil. we know different engine designs and bearing clearances are designed for specific viscosity's. All the other branded oils are suitable If you choose the correct Juan.And Polaris does not make a Snowbike engine so their statement is flawed.They clearly have overstepped and mislead consumers.

 

[Chadx]

My point is that Polaris brands their oil as Approved for snowbike use.What they should say is it is approved for snowbike use If your bike manufacture recommends the same viscosity weight oil. we know different engine designs and bearing clearances are designed for specific viscosity's. All the other branded oils are suitable If you choose the correct Juan.And Polaris does not make a Snowbike engine so their statement is flawed.They clearly have overstepped and mislead consumers.

We differ in our opinion there. My opinion is they are not overstepping or misleading. They don't say "approved for snowbikes"; they say "made for snowbikes". Subtle but real difference. Like when an oil manufacturer say an oil is made for automobiles. User can't assume that any oil made for automobiles can automatically go in their automobile and is responsible for that decision if they do their own maintenance.

Example: amsoil or mobil 1 selling 0w-20 automobile oil. Then a customer dumping it into their vehicle made for 10w-30 (bad idea). Or them putting in a 0w-30 or 5w-30 (a fine idea).

The owner, if doing their own maintenance rather than a dealership or shop, bears the responsibility of using an adequate oil. Owners sometimes choose to bend those rules (like most of us snowbikers). There is almost no risk in bending them slightly (using 0w-40 rather than 10w-40 which are both 40 weight at operating temperature) and high risk really bending the recommendations far (0w-20 rather than 10w-40 which is too light and a bad idea).
Great discussion!

 

[byeatts]

We differ in our opinion there. My opinion is they are not overstepping or misleading. They don't say "approved for snowbikes"; they say "made for snowbikes". Subtle but real difference. Like when an oil manufacturer say an oil is made for automobiles. User can't assume that any oil made for automobiles can automatically go in their automobile and is responsible for that decision if they do their own maintenance.

Example: amsoil or mobil 1 selling 0w-20 automobile oil. Then a customer dumping it into their vehicle made for 10w-30 (bad idea). Or them putting in a 0w-30 or 5w-30 (a fine idea).

The owner, if doing their own maintenance rather than a dealership or shop, bears the responsibility of using an adequate oil. Owners sometimes choose to bend those rules (like most of us snowbikers). There is almost no risk in bending them slightly (using 0w-40 rather than 10w-40 which are both 40 weight at operating temperature) and high risk really bending the recommendations far (0w-20 rather than 10w-40 which is too light and a bad idea).
Great discussion!

well taken"

 

[byeatts]

And now toss another elbow in the discussion, I received Amsoil 10/50 to test viscosity against Rotella 5-40 and motor X 10/50 . 1/4 inch Steel rods inserted in oil to a set depth, All oils same temp 60 degrees and the Amsoil 10/50 is much thinner than the rotella 5/40 with motor X be the thickest. Its a pretty easy visual test as they drip off the rod end at noticeably different rates . it de values manufactures oil test somewhat as the viscosity's are not equal or as suspected .