Mounting my Riot without chain rub block

CATSLEDMAN1

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Last year I read the thread about eliminating the plastic rub block on your dive chain on your ARO, and in the process moving the whole kit up closer to your bike...........lots of glowing reports on CMX's that sit close to the bike and make them more playful. So in Feb last year Dan and I moved his ARO kit closer, used a 15 tooth drive sprocket on the bike driving an 18 on the ARO and went 17 to 18 bottom in the chain case. It was a nice improvement in less vibration/noise, noticeably easier to roll/less drag.

Thinking the RIOT would be the same frame same setup I proceeded to mount my new Riot on my KTM 500 as per the ARO.

1. something is different. To accomplish what we did last spring to the ARO, I had to slide out my.........call it a swingarm cast aluminum block. I put it in my mill ( could be done with a die grinder ) and
2. milled off the end of the block about 3/16 of an inch ,so the ends of the swingarm on either side of the adjuster bolt, removed the adjuster bolt lock nut, machined the hole surface on the inside where the adjuster bolt comes out so I had a flat surface there and put the lock nut on the inside of the swing arm.

3, elongated the 4 holes the long pinch bolts go through the frame .150 of an inch.
4. took a cut on the underside of the swing arm left side where the chain wants to
rub to give some extra chain room.
5. machined the swing arms sides back about .200 just ahead of the forward pinch bolt so the swing arm slides deeper into the Riot frame.
6. All this work so the swing are slide deeper into the Riot frame. Last year in the spring I put on a new DID low friction o ring chain and was impressed with the easier rolling so I used that chain with 15 tooth on the bike and 18 on the kit, removed the plastic shoe that came on the swing arm.
7. Note in the picture the heim joint on the solid strut just touches the long pinch bolt, note the distance between the adjuster bolt and the frame it pushes against. I should have taken pictures of stock them after modification to compare.....my bad.
Compare that to your stock Riot.
8 . When bolted together chain clears swing arm bolt on the bottom by about .200 and clears the top side by a mile and no rub block, just like the rear wheel on your bike it should be.

I also included picture of the fat top idler wheels after I narrowed them up and picture of the top idler wheels I ran when I put the aro suspension in my older TS frame. I was going to use the aluminum idler wheels in my riot, but they are bigger diameter that stock fatty wheels which worked great in my mods the last couple of years, I need to try the RIOT suspension and see if it has ratcheting issues before I go changing wheels sized.

I note about adjusting your track, side to side adjustment needs to be done to center up the rear wheels between the lugs and however the tracks looks is ok, the riot has nice skinny wheels in the back to I see no issues with the rear wheels, which I narrowed on the kits and sleds.

Anyway for now we shall see. my first shot I down loading pictures with the new format, going to have to figure it out.
 

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Dec 7, 2018
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I'm really curious about this set up can you possibly give some feed back as the season goes on about performance of it after the mods. I've wanted a cmx but the $ is the problem

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SteepNdeep450

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Nice write up! I was wondering if anyone would try this on the Riot. Seems like it should free up a lot, not sure I'll be doing it. Sounds a bit more difficult than it was on the ARO.
 
Dec 20, 2007
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I'm all the way forward on my 2 stroke riot and don't feel I need to go farther and I'm super picky. I could see a 4s could need a little more. How much total forward did you gain from the mods? Was the aro still capable of more adjustment?
I'm a big fan of 15t cs on my other kids but haven't tried it yet on the riot. I've been running a $25 non oring rk for a while and just spray with chain wax every ride. Its wearing equal my oring.
 

CATSLEDMAN1

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I should have measured how it would fit up stock, I didn't. KTM 500. Ready to ride with my setup , the front edge of my Riot kit is 5 9/16" to the center of my swingarm. If I had machined more off the swingarm the problem is the chain, if I had knocked out another chain link and kept machining on the swing arm I figured the track was going to about interfere with the bike. Might be worth a look though as season progresses. Post if you can the stock distance on a KTM.

And here is the rub block mounted in the chain case like we did the ARO. EXcept when I installed this in my Riot the rub block is 1.120 thick the cover is only 1 deep by the upper sprocket and narrower yet down low. I had to shorten the rub block on both ends and ran my it through my mill to make it .900 thick. Also had to make an aluminum stud to mount the block on. Is this better than the Wheel that comes stock?Time will tell. In the past round wheels riding against a 520 chain was always a short lived situation due to the vibration , about like riding your bike down the rail road track on the ties.
 

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Dec 20, 2007
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So where on the kit are you measuring the 5 9/16" to sa center? My riot stock all the way forward is 4.5" to the farthest forward edge of the side panel and 9 3/8" to center of the first side panel mounting bold.

Is your chain case rub bloack a factory part you yoused from something else? Looks much better than the wheel. Time will tell, I rack up a lot of miles quick, the wheel looks like a poor design but might work fine in the end.
 

CATSLEDMAN1

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So where on the kit are you measuring the 5 9/16" to sa center? My riot stock all the way forward is 4.5" to the farthest forward edge of the side panel and 9 3/8" to center of the first side panel mounting bold.

Is your chain case rub bloack a factory part you yoused from something else? Looks much better than the wheel. Time will tell, I rack up a lot of miles quick, the wheel looks like a poor design but might work fine in the end.
measured from center of swing arm bolt level with ground to front edge of side panel, ends up in the middle of the solid aluminum with side holes cut out on either side.]

the rub block I cut down for the chain case is the one supplied in the kit thats supposed to tension your drive chain from bike to kit.

I'll recheck my measurements and post a picture.k
 
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I guess looking at the pics on a bigger screen, you are probably forward from stock about the thickness of the jam nut maybe a little more. Is the chain re-routing necessary or can that be done seperately without moving forward the extra bit? If I understand you now have the chain going straight under the cross post with bigger sprockets front and rear for clearance and no plastic anywhere?
 

CATSLEDMAN1

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I guess looking at the pics on a bigger screen, you are probably forward from stock about the thickness of the jam nut maybe a little more. Is the chain re-routing necessary or can that be done seperately without moving forward the extra bit? If I understand you now have the chain going straight under the cross post with bigger sprockets front and rear for clearance and no plastic anywhere?
Correct, no plastic rub blocks and chains clears. Without modifying my cast swing arm block I could not move the kit forward enough to use the stock chain without a half link, or add a link and move way back, I chose the mods to move forward.

I think you could simply go a link ( two pins ) longer on the stock chain and move the kit back with the bigger sprockets and eliminate the rub blocks. Last year this mod on the ARO sure quieted things down, rolls easier, more coast when you let off the gas, no downside that we could see.
 

SteepNdeep450

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Correct, no plastic rub blocks and chains clears. Without modifying my cast swing arm block I could not move the kit forward enough to use the stock chain without a half link, or add a link and move way back, I chose the mods to move forward.

I think you could simply go a link ( two pins ) longer on the stock chain and move the kit back with the bigger sprockets and eliminate the rub blocks. Last year this mod on the ARO sure quieted things down, rolls easier, more coast when you let off the gas, no downside that we could see.
Do you think this would work with TSS or only solid struts?
 

CATSLEDMAN1

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Do you think this would work with TSS or only solid struts?
Good question. I am only using solid strut. Adjusting my strut for correct attitude after the kit was mounted, I adjusted the solid strut longer less than 1/8 inch, which tightened the drive chain way over tight. Seeing that, I would say that a TSS with 1 " of travel , when compressed will produce a pretty loose chain. So what have the ARO guys with TSS experienced ?

On our older TS kits we built spring loaded chain tensioners to compensate for this situation when we were experimenting with TS TSS shocks and others. After ditching the TS we kept our spring loaded tensionsers and they worked way better then the static adjustment. I guess if your chains have lived with past TS static chain adjusters with TSS, this shouldn't be any worse.
 

hankohlson

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CATSLEDMAN, Do you know the length of your strut rod? I noticed to get my rails parallel to the ground I needed to be quite a bit shorter than what the instructions recommend. That slackened up the chain a fair bit. Maybe the sprockets would fit without machining if the strut rod was set shorter?
 

CATSLEDMAN1

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CATSLEDMAN, Do you know the length of your strut rod? I noticed to get my rails parallel to the ground I needed to be quite a bit shorter than what the instructions recommend. That slackened up the chain a fair bit. Maybe the sprockets would fit without machining if the strut rod was set shorter?
I didn't look for any recommendations on the strut rod length for my KTM 500. From how my strut rod came out of the Polaris kit box, I had to extend my rod to get my track sitting about right. When I was trying all the possibilities with stock pieces on of the " tries " was with the kit lifted up almost touching my rear fender, chain was still not going to work with the big sprockets. So......no I don't think the bike would be ride able or workable just by shortening the rod.
 
CATSLEDMAN, have you ran your setup in shop with track off the ground? Is it normal to have a lot of track hop/vibration? Or should it be pretty smooth?

I did this to align track and seems like it should be smoother. My riot track seemed to be hopping allot on top between top rollers and drivers... Also between drivers and front of rails.

Anything I should be concerned about our just nature of the beast? Thanks
 

cbc76am

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Catsledman1, Any particular reason for not running a TSS? I dont really see much of an advantage running one in deep powder but whopped out trails it seems to work better.
most folks feel like it rides better fixed than with the TSS it seems, there is a fox revalve called "x-tune" for the riot that stiffens the valving. That with 350psi apparently works pretty well, but TSS without the mod and high pressure makes the Riot feel a bit stink buggy.
 
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