Lightweight Exhaust Options

Frostbite

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I have been working very hard to pay off my 2020 Hardcore and I was finally able to get it done. Now that I will finally have some mod funds starting to trickle back in again, my first mods will be a 420 cca lithium battery to replace the stock electric start battery and some type of lightweight exhaust system. I was (and maybe still am) sold on the Diamond S titanium exhaust canister because I am thinking I want a quieter sled this time around. It costs $599 and weighs only 3.6 lbs and saves 17.6 lbs while making 4.2 additional horsepower over stock. For an exhaust canister to actually make horse power is a nice surprise.

Then I started looking at some of the single pipe kits available and learned that 2020 models don't require a fuel controller and they don't cost much more than the Diamond S canister, save even more weight and make more horsepower. Houston, we may have a change of plans?

I know you guys have said, "Just ride it" but, I do want to save some weight and if I can make some more power doing so..... Thoughts? Recommendations?
 

ndfb35

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If I was going to go with a pipe kit I would do Speedwerx. I really enjoyed my DS can and it was indeed very quiet. If I had a NA sled it would have one of these two options on it. Speedwerx because of their history with Cat and DS because the great luck I've had with them in the past.
 

Old & slow

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I have been working very hard to pay off my 2020 Hardcore and I was finally able to get it done. Now that I will finally have some mod funds starting to trickle back in again, my first mods will be a 420 cca lithium battery to replace the stock electric start battery and some type of lightweight exhaust system. I was (and maybe still am) sold on the Diamond S titanium exhaust canister because I am thinking I want a quieter sled this time around. It costs $599 and weighs only 3.6 lbs and saves 17.6 lbs while making 4.2 additional horsepower over stock. For an exhaust canister to actually make horse power is a nice surprise.

Then I started looking at some of the single pipe kits available and learned that 2020 models don't require a fuel controller and they don't cost much more than the Diamond S canister, save even more weight and make more horsepower. Houston, we may have a change of plans?

I know you guys have said, "Just ride it" but, I do want to save some weight and if I can make some more power doing so..... Thoughts? Recommendations?
If the aftermarket pipe does not require a controller it most likely isn't going to be a noticeable gain. Same as the DS 4 hp this maybe true at sea level but what is it costing you at elevation? I personally would go with the pipe mod and y from BDX I have not tried them yet but like the thought behind the changes. The riders I spoke with that did the BDX mod were happy with the results. They compared to stock machines and the difference was noticeable. The ceramic painted mod is - 4 lbs along with the can should be in the -20 range not bad for under $1000 and some added hp. A Jaws Big Shark will get you more hp but it does require a fuel controller. Another thing to consider is the air intake is pretty close to the pipe as is and i have seen holes melted through the intake from aftermarket pipes. On a side note two other things i have done is replace the rear scissor bolt with a thru one AC has a kit, and added the bump stop to the top limiter strap bolt.
 
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Octanee

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Unless they have a dyno run to back up their horsepower "claim" I would consider it 100% rubbish, After all if they KNEW it gained you 4 hp, they would include the dyno proof wouldn't they? but they don't. Keep in mind these newer sleds in comparison to the old sleds are coming from the factory really dialed in. The HP/competition game between all 3 is tight so they don't leave much on the table anymore and they run so darn lean!. Also if your not having to add a fuel controller to ADD fuel, then your not making more power. Some tuned pipes will change the way the torque curve is or power comes on and goes though. I was chatting with another forum member who had their tune. He was stock and had a tuned pipe and said it gained him about 2-300 rpm up top, He then went and added the Y pipe and the ECM flash and said he LOST power. however no longer high idle and the odd midrange bog.

that said, Weight loss is nice indeed, but gets pricey. The mufflers are a nice way to loose a good few # for least $. I'd recommend to get a quiet muffler, I have MBRP trail muffler on mine and find it loud still, something about these ctec's are just louder. I can hop on a damn near straight piped doo ("mtn can) and it's quieter through the range until WOT and even then doesn't seem to hurt my ears. But that's my opinion of course :)
 

line8

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On my proclimb I had a Diamond S. Its was nice and light. To me, it was on the quieter side, but it had a higher pitch to it that was quite pingy in my ears at upper rpms. Lower rpms it was just fine bu those higher rpms bugged me. Might have just been me.
I decided when I got a new sled to try an HPS.
I would say its a bit louder but not the higher pitch type. It’s a deeper sound. It sounds good, probably a couple/few pounds heavier than Diamond S.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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To me a pipe setup isn't worth it unless you're getting one that requires a programmer or flash which isn't something I want to mess around with anymore. I'd do the SSI Ti can it's crazy good value and I like how their stainless cans sound. Any claim of Hp gain from a can is BS. I'd drop some bucks on beefy front and rear bumpers before adding power. As said above through bolt the rear arm too cause it sucks to drill it out after it breaks. Pickup some good glue for repairing track lugs, gorilla glue impact has been working ok for me so far.
 

Frostbite

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Thanks guys! Great input!

There are some great single pipes out there and honestly I haven't even begin to make a decision. I have had SLP pipes on my last few sleds. I see their pipes don't need a controller for the 2020 sled either but, they do need an ECU re-flash. Below is the info that caught my eye.

The Black Diamond Pipe says this with it:

The Jaws BIG SHARK 800 pipe adds tremendous bottom end power and an easy 10+ hp over stock on the top end with peak power at 8100-8300 rpm on the Ctec2 motors. With the power commander fuel and timing curve controller (and our map), the power jumps to 15 horsepower and 8 lb/ft of torque. COMES WITH THE PIPE, Y PIPE AND DONUT GASKET

THIS IS A NEW PIPE FOR THE 2020 SEASON WITH MORE POWER LOW END, MID RANGE AND TORQUE THAN THE FIRST GENERATION!!

2020 models don't require a fuel controller!! But our pcv or ecu reflash does make even more power.


5 lbs lighter than stock pipe and Y pipe.

A power commander fuel controller is required (our part# DJ-11-029) along with some clutch weight adjustments, most people will prefer our Pro-Shift clutch kits. We can also reflash your stock ecu instead of using the power commander. The stock mufflers works fine, or for a huge weight loss use our SSI Stainless steel or Titanium muffler for an additional 15-17.5 lb weight loss. That's a 20-23.5 lb weight loss with this pipe and our muffler!!
 

Suzzy-Q

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To me a pipe setup isn't worth it unless you're getting one that requires a programmer or flash which isn't something I want to mess around with anymore. I'd do the SSI Ti can it's crazy good value and I like how their stainless cans sound. Any claim of Hp gain from a can is BS. I'd drop some bucks on beefy front and rear bumpers before adding power. As said above through bolt the rear arm too cause it sucks to drill it out after it breaks. Pickup some good glue for repairing track lugs, gorilla glue impact has been working ok for me so far.


A little apples to oranges because mines a zuke but I quite enjoy my SSI complete exhaust system, even though it doesn’t crank out the extra ponies as a jaws or speedwerx. It runs clean and the 22ish lbs weight savings was nice, I combined it with boysen reeds, SSI head with stock compression, 2* timing key and the sled is crisp and definitely goes better then stock with O running issues, pull and go all day every day and no fuel tuning. Am I afraid of tuners, no, I’ve tuned pipes/BB/turbos/nos with boondocker/dobeck type/power commander tuners. And there’s something to be said about simplicity sometimes
 

Old & slow

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Thanks guys! Great input!

There are some great single pipes out there and honestly I haven't even begin to make a decision. I have had SLP pipes on my last few sleds. I see their pipes don't need a controller for the 2020 sled either but, they do need an ECU re-flash. Below is the info that caught my eye.

The Black Diamond Pipe says this with it:

The Jaws BIG SHARK 800 pipe adds tremendous bottom end power and an easy 10+ hp over stock on the top end with peak power at 8100-8300 rpm on the Ctec2 motors. With the power commander fuel and timing curve controller (and our map), the power jumps to 15 horsepower and 8 lb/ft of torque. COMES WITH THE PIPE, Y PIPE AND DONUT GASKET

THIS IS A NEW PIPE FOR THE 2020 SEASON WITH MORE POWER LOW END, MID RANGE AND TORQUE THAN THE FIRST GENERATION!!

2020 models don't require a fuel controller!! But our pcv or ecu reflash does make even more power.

5 lbs lighter than stock pipe and Y pipe.

A power commander fuel controller is required (our part# DJ-11-029) along with some clutch weight adjustments, most people will prefer our Pro-Shift clutch kits. We can also reflash your stock ecu instead of using the power commander. The stock mufflers works fine, or for a huge weight loss use our SSI Stainless steel or Titanium muffler for an additional 15-17.5 lb weight loss. That's a 20-23.5 lb weight loss with this pipe and our muffler!!
This is new info for me. I am a bit confused as one line says no fuel controller and then fuel controller is required? I have been down the mod road in the past and had pretty good success. But now i am more of a pull and go. Really these new sleds are more than capable, yes extra power is nice and always will be but not required for me in my riding.
 

Frostbite

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I think you can run the pipes with no fuel controller but for optimum performance, you run the pipe with the re-programed ECU?
I had a power commander III on my M8 and I have a Power Commander V on my Proclimb both with SLP pipes. I had to run the SLP fueling maps for both sleds. I imagine the ECU programming done these days adjusts the fuel along with the timing through the ECU eliminating the need for a Power Commander? I will check out everything I can find but, I just don't want to run a fuel controller this time around. I like the idea of high compression heads, Boyesen rage cages, single pipe, titanium can but, I am not so sure I am interested in the clutching kit that comes with these kits?
 

Octanee

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Keep in mind for the most part these engines are tuned up pretty good including the compression to the heads, y pipes, etc etc, The aftermarket will always make products and claim to improve everything but yet they don't back it up with dyno proof, like the big jaws pipe,, 10 hp? SHOW ME THE DYNO!,
Nice thing with a ECM flash is its pull and go, or SHOULD BE, nothing can adjust and compensate for conditions better than the ecm. I'm so beyond done with tuning boxes where you change the numbers, They all claim set it and forget it but it just doesn't end up that way.

I find it odd with the lack of feedback on the ECM tunes, theres a little but just not enough to get a good sense of what it really does. At least bikeman did present a dyno with their tune/s.

if you want some power and its guaranteed, Get a turbo. I picked up a push kit for mine for ~$700 USD. Just need to have silber flash the ecm and away I go, so all in about ~$1200-1300 usd to do that. I may actually sell the kit come fall, price was too good to say no lol. The sled goes good enough. this is my first N/A/stock ish sled in so many years, I've been turbo the whole way until last winter.
 

Frostbite

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Well said Octanee! I am still at the exploring options stage and the more information I have, the better decision I can make. I really just wanted to save some weight but, it's always fun to research.
 

boondocker97

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FYI some of these exhaust companies are still using the old proclimb silencer weights to sell their weight loss numbers. Including Diamond S. The stock ceramic coated mufflers without the heat blankets are lighter than the original proclimb ones. I have it written down here that my dad weighed the ceramic stocker can off of his 2017 Mountain Cat and it was 19lb. So if the Diamond S weighs about 3.5lb then that's 15.5lb of savings. Just be aware. Also I don't think the gains with a Y pipe alone are significant on the 2020 as Cat changed them. Speedwerx doesn't offer one for them as a standalone without the full pipe and I thought In one of the Bikeman videos he commented that the 2020 was better from the start. If you look up pricing the Speedwerx Stage II is cheaper for a 2020 than a 2018-2019 kit.

Basically what I'm getting at is make sure you get verified information for the products you are looking at for your 2020 as they are different than even the 2019 Ctec sleds.

Edit: measured can weight. I believe my original 14.2lb can savings was taking addition of a muff pot into account. Which is also important.
 
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Frostbite

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Great points Boondocker97. The problem seems to be, most of the aftermarket pipes appear to be the same for 2018, 2019 and the 2020 sleds. The aftermarket Y pipes also seem to be kind of a one size fits all years affair. I really hate to let the best liars win my business but, weight savings and horsepower numbers is all I can compare. I used to have a Dynotech subscription to use them as kind of consumer reports but, it has long since expired. It seems I am looking for a quiet lightweight power enhancer.
 

boondocker97

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I hear ya. If I was in your shoes I'd get it narrowed down to your top 2-3 and get on the phone with the shops and ask them specifically what you can expect on your 2020. After dealing with a power commander failure I'm leaning toward options that use a ECU flash on my next build. Speedwerx seems to have a dyno chart posted of their stage kits on their website and Bikeman has a bunch of videos on their youtube channel of their kits on the dyno. Bikeman actually shows you the difference between cold pipe, hot pipe, and sustained WOT which is nice.
 

Frostbite

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Funny you say that. I just got off the phone with Eric Long at BDX. Super nice guy! It's funny how Bikeman shows the 2020 making more power than the 2019 on the dyno and I get the impression that BDX thinks the 2020 went backwards in power. They aren't impressed with the 2020 head design at all. Eric pointed out a kit that interests me. It's called the CTEC2 800 Stage II Ultimate High Elevation. I will look more into it. One thing I like about SLP's stuff is their high elevation stuff is for 4,500 feet and above where the other are 6,000 and above. I ride from 4-7,000 feet typically.
 

dw8

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I went with a Precision EFI flash on my '19 Alpha and a Diamond S can. Sled ran great last year here in Maine and out in Montana. Pull and go was what I was after. I picked up power for sure as I needed more weight. The flash jumped me from 8100 to 8400 rpm. Different days but similar snow on the same slope here in Maine

I'm thinking of doing the Speedwerx pipe kit with ecu flash this year and transferring my stuff over to my dad's '19 to help him shed weight.
 

Old & slow

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Keep in mind for the most part these engines are tuned up pretty good including the compression to the heads, y pipes, etc etc, The aftermarket will always make products and claim to improve everything but yet they don't back it up with dyno proof, like the big jaws pipe,, 10 hp? SHOW ME THE DYNO!,
Nice thing with a ECM flash is its pull and go, or SHOULD BE, nothing can adjust and compensate for conditions better than the ecm. I'm so beyond done with tuning boxes where you change the numbers, They all claim set it and forget it but it just doesn't end up that way.

I find it odd with the lack of feedback on the ECM tunes, theres a little but just not enough to get a good sense of what it really does. At least bikeman did present a dyno with their tune/s.

if you want some power and its guaranteed, Get a turbo. I picked up a push kit for mine for ~$700 USD. Just need to have silber flash the ecm and away I go, so all in about ~$1200-1300 usd to do that. I may actually sell the kit come fall, price was too good to say no lol. The sled goes good enough. this is my first N/A/stock ish sled in so many years, I've been turbo the whole way until last winter.
I don't have a dyno but when i put the Jaws pipe on my Proclimb the engine RPM went from a consistent 8150 to 8450. All I added was the controller, pipe ,Y, and stinger. Clutching was unchanged. This was all at 6000 to 8000 ft. The sled had more power for sure and we were in some of the toughest conditions i have ever rode in wet sticky snow.
 

Frostbite

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Thanks for the info guys. I would love a good ceramic single pipe with a quiet titanium silencer that doesn't require a controller. I much prefer a re-flash! Has anyone tried the Black Diamond Extreme stock pipe modification? It sounds interesting as well.
 

Frostbite

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I was looking at Y pipes and they are all over the board. That kind of shifted me more toward a single pipe because the single pipe kits already contain the optimal Y pipe for the single pipe being sold.

I called SLP yesterday and told them that I have had their pipes on my last two sleds. I explained to them that I didn't want to have to use a fuel controller this time around. I was told they do no offer that option but that Eric at Racing Station was offering that option. I left him a message to give me a call. Overall, I wasn't deeply impressed with SLPs's ability to convince their setup was the answer.

So, in whittling down the single pipe options, Speedwerx Fat Daddy pipe states that Dynotech proved that their pipe created more HP than the 5 other aftermarket pipes tested. The Dynotech data shows a 9.9 hp increase at 163.4 hp. The good part is it can be used with their ECU flash. It saves 4.5 hp over the stock single pipe and I would use someone's titanium silencer (Diamond S or BDX) with it. I may use their Exterminator kit with it?

Swapping over the BDX. They have their Jaws pipe sets that look good. The thing I like best here is there pipe was resigned to incorporate the engine changes for 2020. Most of the single pipes i looks at seem 2018 versions and haven't been updated for the 2020 engine changes.

Here are there JAWS pipe options.

The Jaws BIG SHARK 800 pipe adds tremendous bottom end power and an easy 10+ hp over stock on the top end with peak power at 8100-8300 rpm on the Ctec2 motors. With the power commander fuel and timing curve controller (and our map), the power jumps to 15 horsepower and 8 lb/ft of torque. COMES WITH THE PIPE, Y PIPE AND DONUT GASKET

THIS IS A NEW PIPE FOR THE 2020 SEASON WITH MORE POWER LOW END, MID RANGE AND TORQUE THAN THE FIRST GENERATION!!

2020 models don't require a fuel controller!! But our pcv or ecu reflash does make even more power.

5 lbs lighter than stock pipe and Y pipe.


A power commander fuel controller is required (our part# DJ-11-029) along with some clutch weight adjustments, most people will prefer our Pro-Shift clutch kits. We can also reflash your stock ecu instead of using the power commander. The stock mufflers works fine, or for a huge weight loss use our SSI Stainless steel or Titanium muffler for an additional 15-17.5 lb weight loss. That's a 20-23.5 lb weight loss with this pipe and our muffler!!

Black:



Ceramic:



That's probably enough for now. I am still looking and waiting for the Hayday's sales to kick in.
 
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