Let's shut down the economy for 1 day

Mafesto

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Mefasto you are right, awareness is good but understanding is important as well and understanding that, as guys, we do not have a seat at that table period.
You have a right to have that opinion.
Just as I have the right to strongly disagree with that opinion.
 

smokindave

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Its times like this that reminds you that you are not alone with your pain/loss. we all have had big losses in our lives. Mine came when i was 15 and lost my dad to a car accident i am 52 now and there has not been a day i haven't thought of the happy times going fishing of skiing. And with that, I would not even try to fathom the loss of a child. You will find that life will trigger memories of the life that once was so vibrant. You will also learn over time that when it happens your mind will naturally think of a happy memory and not the pain of the loss. As Timbre said its a process. I guess that is what they truly mean when they say they will live on though us.



Mefasto you are right, awareness is good but understanding is important as well and understanding that, as guys, we do not have a seat at that table period.


Just today I was talking with my wife and I told her I was having problems after work and before bed in my hotel room and what she said was to remember the good memories.
I am so lucky because my baby girl was my best friend,over her 30 years we did so much together,she is so much like me that I really have no problem remembering our good times.
This learning to mourn has been the hardest.
I have kept this to myself and am so glad that I did share,the people that shared their stories does make it a little easier.
Thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My baby girl Heather.
 

Scott

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Dave, I'm so very sorry. It must be awful. I'm a parent of three and I can't imagine losing one of them. Oh my gosh.

I'm getting ready to send my daughter off to college in another state this summer and it scares the crap out of me.
 

Timbre

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She is absolutely beautiful Dave! You must be so proud of her! And that will never end! But WOW what a HUGE hole in your heart and in the lives of your family, i totally get it! Makes my heart hurt just talking about it.

I know everyone grieves differently and there is no right or wrong way to go through the process. The important part is to share with others . .. especially those who have been through the same thing. Family and close friends are SO valuable at this time. It also does not hurt to consider talking to a professional who specializes in helping those going through the grieving process.

Anyone who has not lost a child has no way to comprehend the pain a parent endures when that happens. I had the honor of taking care of my son during his journey, and he passed away in our home after 15 months of battling a brain tumor. Though it was painful to watch, i got to say goodbye. Its just one foot in front of the other sometimes. The memories of my son were the most painful in the weeks and months right after he passed, and as time went on, those memories began to make me smile instead of making me as sad. A year has passed now and it is steadily getting better. There is light at the end of the tunnel :)

You are welcome to send me a PM if would like to communicate about this privately. Or email is good too. I am willing to share and communicate about this publicly if that works better as well. I just want to be helpful in any way possible. It all works for me.
 

Jean-Luc Picard

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People & potential

This is a highly emotional issue fraught with pain and anguish on both sides. I count myself in the Pro-Life camp, but I'm not going to pass judgement on someone who has had to make a decision as painful as aborting their child.



I also think the idea that as guys we "don't have a seat at that table" is a complete fallacy. Were you born? Then it's an issue that affects you and could have ended your life before it ever began. Do we have "less skin in the game?" Definitely. My wife is pregnant right now & It's not been an easy pregnancy. She's miserable and has been for 5 months. And I'm not the one who has to push the kid out when the time comes. I'm not the one who will be breastfeeding him, or changing most of his diapers. But I'm there for her. And I'll get up with her in the middle of the night when he's up & colicky in a few more months.

The same things bother me in this debate that bother me in the debates about immigration. You are talking about people, not just some drain on society. People have enormous potential. Ending a life before it has begun deprives us of the next Beethoven or the next Hitler for all we know, but That Being has the right to exist & determine their own future, make their own decisions. Should a single woman with no man to support her be able to make the decision to abort an unborn child? I don't know. I would lean towards no, but I have not walked in her shoes.

On the immigration side of things, we sit here in our comfortable jobs, in the top 2% of the world economy if we're employed in the US & think we have the right to say to those fleeing violence, war, etc, "Sorry, you're not good enough." What makes us so much better? Why because I was born in America should I have access to so much more than my brothers in the dust & pronounce their excess?

Smokin Dave, I'm sorry you lost your Daughter. I could not imagine going through that. My oldest brother died of cancer 23 years ago & it still hurts.

Putting People first is what matters most to me. When we cut off opportunity to choose & to self-determine, we cut off a little of our own humanity if you ask me.
 

Timbre

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Yeah, sooooooo silly to defend the most defenseless among us.


Oh wait, it's a living human being.


Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
That verse is one that is heavily used in the abortion debate. But when i saw the word "prophet", something set off a red flag, and I decided to do a little research on this. Here is something interesting . . . that seems to make more sense to me :)

I know that Jeremiah 1:5 is often used by pro-life advocates to argue that life begins at conception, but one difficulty with using this particular verse to argue for any policy on abortion is that the clause "and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations" suggests that the verse only applies to Jeremiah himself, not to humanity as a whole. Unless somebody wants to argue that all humanity qualifies as ordained prophets, I don't see how this particular verse is applicable.
 

Mafesto

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Like many passages, there is a degree of ambiguity.
I've often wondered how much of that was originally written that way, and how much came from translations. Myself, I'm of the opinion that is to promote faith.
Hence "Blessed is he who has not seen, and yet believes"

Regardless, I believe God intends life beginning at inception.
I realize and accept that is highly debatable.
However, I will not accept the notion of there not being life when a heartbeat exists.

I was a mistake. An unwelcome, unwanted mistake.
The grace of God, the gift of adoption and the acceptance and love of adopting parents have provided me with a blessed life.
 

Timbre

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Good comments!

I think the immigration debate has become very convoluted and i wonder if the sides will ever come together to secure this country. No one (that i know) is saying "sorry you're not good enough" to those that want to enter the country. But rather "there is a right way to enter legally, and everyone needs to follow this same path". This is the only way to treat everyone fairly, and be able to sort out the bad apples from the good ones.

The same goes with the thinking that those coming in might be a "drain on society". I don't think they will be at this time, but on the other side of that coin, is making sure there is a balance. A ship can only hold so many until it begins to sink. We need to plan wisely and make wise decisions so that all who are here, and those that come in, have a chance for prosperity.
 
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You have my deepest sympathy for the loss of your daughter.
Regarding everything else that you said, I understand why you and I don't see eye to eye on much beyond snowmobiling.
I honestly hope that the right people and chain of events are able to change your heart, because I truly believe that you have the opportunity to embrace your daughter again one day. I'm not blowing smoke up your arse, I believe that as much as I believe in my next breath.
Open your mind and open your heart and let the Almighty show you love as you've never experienced.

You sound crazy.
 

Mafesto

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Every democrat running for 2020 president
Harris
Warren
Booker
Gillibrand
Sanders
Klobuchar
have voted against a bill that would protect the life of newborn that survived attempted abortion.

Embarrassing.
 

Bacon

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Hitler killed 6 million. Abortion has killed 60 million. How can anyone say that is a good thing. I’m not a bible banger but anyone should know that is evil.
 

Jean-Luc Picard

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You do realize that our great President Trump is Pro-Life, right?
Close to the only thing he has going for him in my book. I find it disturbing how those on the "right" overlook his own completely immoral behavior & hang their decisions on this one issue. Its an important issue, and I even understand that it may be argued that it is possibly the most important issue. But to keep Trump in office strictly because he's Pro-life (which he hasn't always been - There are arguments as to why he changed on both sides as well - to gain the pro life vote, or because its the right thing. Make your own judgement there) overlooks an awful lot of what makes him, in my opinion, unfit to be the leader of our nation. There are a LOT of other people who are Pro-Life who aren't Pro-Torture for example.


Also, the reason I hope a republican runs against Trump for the Primary isn't because Trump is pro-choice (I know he's not at this point), but rather because I doubt his ability to win against pretty much whoever the Democratic nominee will be. He beat Hillary Clinton, in my opinon, in large part because the left underestimated how much the right HATED Hillary Clinton. The amount of people I know who voted for Trump, not because they wanted Trump, but because they did NOT want Clinton is more than enough to sway my mind that way. If you don't think in 2020 the "left" (not to mention much of the center) will turn out to vote for anyone but Trump, for much the same reason, you're deluding yourself. Republican politicians who continue to hang their hat with Trump will pay a price.
 
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