• I've received emails and PM's asking me about "Group Buys" and promotions.

    A Group Buy here on SnoWestOnline.com would be a situation where a normal member (non vendor or mfg) personally collects orders from other members. That member then uses those orders to negotiate a better price with the Vendor/Mfg for HIS/HER "Group" of buyers.

    Here is an example of a viable "Group Buy"

    http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269222

    A promotion that has the words "Group Buy" in the title is still a promotion, and from the rules that were handed down to me by Harris Publications is that non-advertisers cannot run promotions or open sales programs on the forums outside of the swapmeet.

    If a members wants to become a group buy manager, maintain a thread and collect the funds and negotiate a group buy... as a member, you are welcome to do that as long as you are not attached to the business of the vendor or Mfg.

    If you are a vendor/MFG and you want to offer an EXCLUSIVE "SnoWestOnline ONLY" promotion that is exclusive to snowest readers, please contact me and you'll be able to put it up in the Polaris forums.

    Also, before any vendors/mfgs get all "riled up" over this know that the moderators are strictly volunteers and do not receive a dime from any advertising $$ spent on this site.

    As ALWAYS, since DAY ONE of me becoming a moderator, I have pioneered, supported and encouraged vendors and mfgs in getting the word out to our readers with "New Product Announcements.

    Have a great season.

    From this point on, all vendors/mfg's promoting Pre-Season tiered sales programs, in the Polaris Forums, that are not paid advertisers will be appropriately moved to the swapmeet section of the forums.

    MH

Khaos Conversion Question

I've got a short tunnel 163 2020 Polaris and I'm looking to do the Khaos conversion. The plan is to buy the Raptor conversion kit that comes with the extended shock eyelet and the limiter strap. However, I'm wondering how important it is to buy the Khaos rails? I know they are tipped up a little more than the ProRmk rails. Any thoughts on how much the rails contribute to getting all the way to a Khaos front end? Is it like 50% the Raptor kit and 50% the rails or is it more like 80% Raptor kit and 20% the rails? My shop in AK didn't think the rails were necessary. Has anyone has tried the Raptor kit with both the stock ProRMK rails and the Khaos rails to truly know the difference? I currently have Ice Age ProRmk rails. Any feedback is appreciated!
 
Nov 5, 2012
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Following!

I've read people say the khaos rails will give you 1/3 the playfulness so I'm assuming those two would give the other 2/3 🤔 as long as they don't cause the rails to stab the track
 

pepperhouse

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Talked to raptor last week.
They said all testing of the kit was done with rmk rails.
They strongly suggest a anti stab kit to air on safe side when using rmk rails.
they also have a shock eyelet extension, longer limiter and anti stab kit package in the works.
He also said the nice thing about their kit is that if snow is crazy deep and you’re trenching you can just pull limiter up a hole and shorten to rmk length and get Back to rmk Geo. You will loose a bit of front track shock travel but not a big deal in the deep snow. Then if conditions are firmer lengthen back out to khaos length.

Will try raptor kit first then rails if needed.

If anyone has seat time on a raptor khaos kit be nice to hear a report.
 
Raptor already makes the shock eyelet extension and longer limiter strap with two hole options (Khaos and RMK) that was available last year. I've talked to several people that added the kit and had good results but none of them added the Khaos rails so the test was incomplete. Per Macphee above I it buys me 1/3 more playfulness I think I'd throw down and buy a set. Other than shocks at that point as I understand it, it's a Khaos front end. Thanks for the feedback! Anyone with seat time thanks for an update.
 
Jan 30, 2019
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Just ordered Ice Age Khaos rails, and Raptor rear shocks. Also got the OEM Khaos limiter straps for my SKS. Excited for the season! One of our friends has a Khaos, and it was a fun riding sled. I have the older Burandt 36" front end and may order the Raptor shocks for the skis.
 

IceAge Performance

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Guys, figured we would chime in is this is something we have spent hundres of hours working on as well as talking to customers from all over the world. There are definately a number of ways to go about achieving some or all of the Khaos geometry but one critical component to consider also is shock packages and ride quality.

We consider a full Khaos converted sled as having full OEM khaos geometry components as well as on par or higher quality shocks as the OEM velocity shocks that come on the Khaos sleds.

There are 2 ways to achieve a partial Khaos geometry, as well as a way to get full chaos geometry without nearly the proper ride quality.

The 2 partial combo's are Either running just Khaos rails on an RMK, this is about 1/3 of the geometry change as mentioned above. The second combo would be running something like an extended shock eyelet on an RMK rail along with a khaos length limiter.

A full conversion done with our rails (or OEM takeoffs) and some sort of longer shock eyelet as well as khaos limiter straps may achieve full khaos geometry, but the end ride results and performance are not deserving of the full Khaos name in our opinion. The front track shock is being put into play a lot more with the khaos geometry and utilizing an OEM walker evans monotube shock is just not going to perform like the higher end options. Also the rear track shock now is handling a sled setup that is setup to transfer more aggresively so the valving is not matched for this. The best way we can describe this is the Chevy S10. Its a "truck", classified as a truck, has a cab, bed, 4wd etc etc but its no diesel 1 ton. Just because you have all the khaos geometry doesn't mean things are on even close to the same playing field.

After a long winter of testing and working with the team at Fox as well as riding lots of other suspension combinations it became very apparent that hitting the geometry was important but a shock package built to match was absolutely critical for true 'performance' of the kit. One thing to consider also when weighing the slightly more costly kit using full shocks vs a modified or mismatched shock package is all around performance. Having put thousands of miles on just about every shock package offered as well as numerous modified OEM WE shocks, we can confidently say the '21 Fox packages are the best riding shocks we have put time on. Fox is a massive company with manufacturing/tuning resources that dwarf most other snow companies. This really shows this season on 2 fronts, first being performance. The internal bypass as well as QS3 package provides the most broadly capable shock setup in a simple to adjust and understand package we have ever rode. The second is price, because of their size and ability to manufacture in volume pricing is incredibly affordable on the 1.5 QS3 package. At $995 this shock package is on the low end of cost but competing with the highest end shocks on the market for a fraction of the cost. The Float 3 Evol and IQS packages also add even more range and adjustability into the package at a slight increase in cost.

Also an easy to overlook feature but something we love is the Lockout option on the rear shock on all of the Fox shocks. This provides the ability to easily tame the Khaos down and keep the skis planted on the snow better then an RMK with the flip of a switch. This means you can go from mild to wild with the flip of a switch!

For the guys who have purchase or are going to purchase one of our Chaos conversion kits with the Fox shocks, we cannot wait for people to get out and ride this setup. It is hard to describe the jump in performance vs even the best OEM option from Polaris. You guys are in for a treat!
 
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Very good write up iceage I think that just about nails it.

Have you any experience with the shock eye and longer limiter without an anti stab? Any issues
 
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kylant

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It's been relayed to me by the local aftermarket experts in Alaska that anti-stab is a must if you go with the extended shock eye and longer limiter strap.
really?
even when using Khaos rails, longer limiter straps, and a longer shock?
if so, why doesn't the factory do this then?
 

IceAge Performance

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is this the same when using your Khaos rails?
No, with the proper Khaos RMK style rail, the rail features a steeper bend profile so the tips are perfectly matched with the longer style shock. As mentioned in our write up, the extended eyelet, limiter strap and khaos rails does result in full khaos geometry it is NOT going to ride even close to the same as one with a full proper shock package.
 

kylant

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No, with the proper Khaos RMK style rail, the rail features a steeper bend profile so the tips are perfectly matched with the longer style shock. As mentioned in our write up, the extended eyelet, limiter strap and khaos rails does result in full khaos geometry it is NOT going to ride even close to the same as one with a full proper shock package.
thank you. understand the ride quality with new shocks
 

die hard poo

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Ya IMO the raptor kit doesn't really do much at all to a normal Pro RMK. Like Ice Age stated, its the whole package, geometry AND the better shocks (Velocity Shocks) that makes it handle like a stock Khoas. My 2020 Khaos with extended and heavier track (162-2.7x) is way more playful/wheelie machine than my friend's 2019 800 Pro RMK 155-2.6" with my old Khaos rails (155") and the raptor kit. It's not even a comparison. His feels pretty much like a regular Pro RMK where mine can wheelie over backwards on a hill if not careful. Id say if you want a khaos, you will need to buy the velocity or better shocks.
 

Sheetmetalfab

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Ya IMO the raptor kit doesn't really do much at all to a normal Pro RMK. Like Ice Age stated, its the whole package, geometry AND the better shocks (Velocity Shocks) that makes it handle like a stock Khoas. My 2020 Khaos with extended and heavier track (162-2.7x) is way more playful/wheelie machine than my friend's 2019 800 Pro RMK 155-2.6" with my old Khaos rails (155") and the raptor kit. It's not even a comparison. His feels pretty much like a regular Pro RMK where mine can wheelie over backwards on a hill if not careful. Id say if you want a khaos, you will need to buy the velocity or better shocks.

I agree to a point. (I’m running velocity shocks on my boosted 800)

Three differences in your sleds that skew your results.

X2.7 is a stiff track (wheelie happy)
Series 6 2.6 is a float track.

You’re on an 850 vs your buddies 800.

Your running khaos springs (softer RTS spring and stiffer FTS spring)

Another 2 factors that are unknown is if either of you have clutching work done?

Rider weight?
 

die hard poo

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I agree to a point. (I’m running velocity shocks on my boosted 800)

Three differences in your sleds that skew your results.

X2.7 is a stiff track (wheelie happy)
Series 6 2.6 is a float track.

You’re on an 850 vs your buddies 800.

Your running khaos springs (softer RTS spring and stiffer FTS spring)

Another 2 factors that are unknown is if either of you have clutching work done?

Rider weight?

Agreed, the X2.7 is stiffer and bites good. But my track is a 162 vs his 155.

And yes my 850 has more power, but he is also running a SLP pipe so its within 10hp

And yes I guess I should have included that the shocks with the springs is what makes the Khaos feel more lively

And were both clutched, I do have lower gearing in my bd compared to his stock QD

We both weigh within 10lbs. But we swap sleds alot.

I didn't mention, but on my 16 Pro RMK 800, I have ice age rails with an antistab kit, the same raptor kit, and the 155-3" series 7 track plus low gearing bd. It will wheelies more with the taller lug track compared to his 2.6" but nothing like my khaos.
It all does add up.

At the end, my experience with the raptor kit alone and raptor kit with stock khaos rails isn't close to a stockish khaos fun factor. IMO not worth the effort or cost.
 

IceAge Performance

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So if I bought one of the Ice Age Khaos conversion kits AND bought the Ice Age Khaos rails do I still need the anti-stab kit? I understand in need it if I was still running the ProRmk rails. Trying to calculate my all in price.

No, our chaos conversion kit includes the unique khaos bend rails, khaos length limiter strap (with other adjustments not included in OEM khaos) as well as the fox khaos length shocks. Our Chaos conversion has all the required parts and will result in a complete ready to install package. We won't sell you a hodge podge of parts and call it a 'kit'. We sell a full ready to rock package with the guess work taken out of it.

The only reason guys are running anti stabs on a conversion is because using a longer limitier and shock extension on a Pro RMK with Pro bend rails is this creates a lot of pressure on the tip of the rails so cutting the tip off and running the anti stab is how they can "cheat" the pro RMK rail to work somewhat safely. with this config. As mentioned above this does not net nearly the results of a true conversion process.

For those that haven't seen the whole package yet, check the link! Chaos Conversion
 

kylant

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No, our chaos conversion kit includes the unique khaos bend rails, khaos length limiter strap (with other adjustments not included in OEM khaos) as well as the fox khaos length shocks. Our Chaos conversion has all the required parts and will result in a complete ready to install package. We won't sell you a hodge podge of parts and call it a 'kit'. We sell a full ready to rock package with the guess work taken out of it.

The only reason guys are running anti stabs on a conversion is because using a longer limitier and shock extension on a Pro RMK with Pro bend rails is this creates a lot of pressure on the tip of the rails so cutting the tip off and running the anti stab is how they can "cheat" the pro RMK rail to work somewhat safely. with this config. As mentioned above this does not net nearly the results of a true conversion process.

For those that haven't seen the whole package yet, check the link! Chaos Conversion

are you guys running one or 2 limiter straps?
 
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