I/we need help with tuning suspension

[camyoung603]

I think there are a lot of guys me included that want to have a sled that performs perfect for what we are doing, but we don't know how to describe what the sled Is doing in order to make the changes. I can look at what everyone is doing on their rides but at the end of the day my sled is going to be set up differently that your sled or his sled is. I want to make this threat for everyone who wants to better understand their sled and to feel confident in making changes and to know why they are making the changes. It's easy to tell someone to turn this or loosen that but we can learn more if you tell us why turning this or loosening that will change the way the sled rides. I don't want links to other pages or threads. I want people to ask and answer questions they have without feeling like an idiot for not knowing so let's get it started

My sled is a 2020 freeride 154 3" I'm a east coast guy so it low elevation and tight trees I want to be able to set up my sled so that everytime Im in a sidehill my ass end dosnt sink a mile before I move what can I do to fix this

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[Devilmanak]

I have had two of these suckas every year. (g4 sleds.) Some I tried shocks, some stock. Last year, last rides I figured it out.
After breaking the suspension in, go full stiff on rear springs. 3.5-4 on ski springs. I like center shock stock, I don't touch it.
The most striking thing that I noticed, and didn't figure it out until the last ride, was ski pressure. They come on one I think, I usually break the sled in, then start cranking up the ski shock preload. In the previous years, I end up on 3 by spring. Last year I went higher, 3.5-4. It changed the handling in a large way. SO much better. Not just on trail, but in technical sidehills. Instead of the skis compressing and tucking the front end on a softer preload and washing the rear end, it holds the line better. Try it.

 

[jcjc1]

You mentioned rear springs as in plural so are you referring to the torsion springs or the rear spring?
For the preload on the ski springs where are you getting the numbers from? My springs are still where they are from the factory but I don’t recall seeing any numbers that I can reference spring compression to. The only thing that has a number reference are the clicks on the dampener and rebound.
I’ve got a 2020 Freeride.
Thanks for the advice as I’m trying to understand my suspension as well.

 

[Devilmanak]

I haven't had a Freeride since 2019, but I think they are the same as Summits. There should be lines on the shock body so you know where the preload is. The torsion spring is the rear spring. I just sold my 2020 Summit but will go take a pic for reference, it is in my trailer waiting for it's new owner.

 

[Devilmanak]

I haven't had a Freeride since 2019, but I think they are the same as Summits. There should be lines on the shock body so you know where the preload is. The torsion spring is the rear spring. I just sold my 2020 Summit but will go take a pic for reference, it is in my trailer waiting for it's new owner.

 

[Rick E]

I too would like to know where to begin.

Sled:
new 2020 850 Summit X 154 x 3" w/ zero miles.
All stock suspension with the adjustable track limiter.

Me:
5" 10" x 185 lb.
Senior citizen.
I can generally keep up with my younger sons and their friends.
I don't try anything difficult..... I leave that to them!

 

[jcjc1]

Thanks for the reply. The shocks on the Freerides are the KYB Pros which are different than the Summits and these shocks don't have any lines for reference. I don't know if we're talking about the same thing or not concerning the torsion springs but the rear shock and torsion springs are different components. Last year was my first year of both mountain sledding and sled ownership so I was mainly trying to hang on to it and get some basic riding mechanics down. This season I want to delve deeper into setting up the suspension and learning more about it. I ride with a couple of guys who have 2014 and 2015 Summits and I've ridden the 2015 a couple of times (until I put it into a tree but that's another story...) and it seemed easier to initiate a turn and a little more forgiving. I attributed that to it's softer suspension but not sure. I also have the adjustable strap limiter and it was easy to feel it's effects from short to long but all the separate shock adjustments are a little more confusing.
Thanks.

 

[Devilmanak]

Thanks for the reply. The shocks on the Freerides are the KYB Pros which are different than the Summits and these shocks don't have any lines for reference. I don't know if we're talking about the same thing or not concerning the torsion springs but the rear shock and torsion springs are different components. Last year was my first year of both mountain sledding and sled ownership so I was mainly trying to hang on to it and get some basic riding mechanics down. This season I want to delve deeper into setting up the suspension and learning more about it. I ride with a couple of guys who have 2014 and 2015 Summits and I've ridden the 2015 a couple of times (until I put it into a tree but that's another story...) and it seemed easier to initiate a turn and a little more forgiving. I attributed that to it's softer suspension but not sure. I also have the adjustable strap limiter and it was easy to feel it's effects from short to long but all the separate shock adjustments are a little more confusing.
Thanks.

Yes, the rear shock and rear springs are different parts. From your post: " You mentioned rear springs as in plural so are you referring to the torsion springs or the rear spring?" The torsion springs ARE the rear springs. The rear springs are not the rear shock....

 

[ziggity]

I run all my springs fairly soft on my 19 summit X, i tightened everything up (rear and fronts) but found it super awkward to carve. It might of been a bit better in more steeper terrain but i also found it wanted to go back on 2 skis easier while on edge.

 

[Answ3r]

I have had two of these suckas every year. (g4 sleds.) Some I tried shocks, some stock. Last year, last rides I figured it out.
After breaking the suspension in, go full stiff on rear springs. 3.5-4 on ski springs. I like center shock stock, I don't touch it.
The most striking thing that I noticed, and didn't figure it out until the last ride, was ski pressure. They come on one I think, I usually break the sled in, then start cranking up the ski shock preload. In the previous years, I end up on 3 by spring. Last year I went higher, 3.5-4. It changed the handling in a large way. SO much better. Not just on trail, but in technical sidehills. Instead of the skis compressing and tucking the front end on a softer preload and washing the rear end, it holds the line better. Try it.

I don't like the idea of preloading more, so this year I am trying stiffer front spring and stiffer torsion springs. The center one will be kept stock.

 

[Devilmanak]

I tried that, it was a bad idea. The next stiffer springs on the rear were way too stiff, it rode horribly and made the sled ride nose-down on the bumpy trail and kick. There wasn't enough rebound dampening to control the springs. Super harsh. One ride I went back to stock and used torsion spring spacers with stock springs. HUGE improvement. I didn't even mess with them last year, the Expert suspension was really good as is.

 

[Answ3r]

I tried that, it was a bad idea. The next stiffer springs on the rear were way too stiff, it rode horribly and made the sled ride nose-down on the bumpy trail and kick. There wasn't enough rebound dampening to control the springs. Super harsh. One ride I went back to stock and used torsion spring spacers with stock springs. HUGE improvement. I didn't even mess with them last year, the Expert suspension was really good as is.

Can you confirm which part number you used ? They are numberous spring rate increments, so curious of which one you had.

 

[Thielio20]

In my experience and in my best ordinary explanation of what's worked for me specifically, for hilly technical terrain I stiffen the springs on my front skis and keep the center rear softer and the rear rear stiffer. This prevents too much ski pressure which leads to skis breaking through hard layers and diving while turning, believe me what a world of a difference it makes to have a lighter front end while trying to navigate tight trees.
The softer center keeps the surprise bumps from hitting hard and the stiffer rear keeps the track more predictable when climbing. It took a full season last year of playing with it to find what worked for me but it really changed the game once I found it!

The more technical info gets into your sag height, ride height, weight distribution between front/rear of sled and each spring specifically. But realistically if you adjust your suspension to take more weight off the skis when you're on the sled(higher front, lower rear), you'll have more control of the machine with your feet and body weight. Move too much weight to the back and you lose control of steering with your skis and begin to trench a LOT. Make SMALL adjustments, 1-2 rotations on a coilover shock, or one turn on the torsion springs.

What I've realized also, nobody talks about foot position when sidehilling. I used to wash out quite a bit on my 2017 154, but continued playing with foot position (farther forward or back) on the running boards depending on approach angle and the slope of the terrain.

I put fox 2.0 QS3s on my 2017 and made the major mistake of not measuring heights before removing the stock suspension and it took me a long time to tune it where I liked it.