Looks like 2020 engine will inject oil direct to bottom end not through reeds like 18/19 engine's.And my guess is injection angle change has something to do with bottom end lubrication also.
Engine failures
- Thread starter powwow
- Start date
That would be great. No more oil soaked airbox!
tapatio...
tapatio...
C
I Towed an Alpha down a few weeks ago with 1800 miles (locked up) and heard of a tour giude that had 3 go down (18’s) this season. Though I feel it’s still a good combo and the changes will only make them that much better!
Just at 1000 miles on my '18 Mountain Cat. Stock except for SSI Ti can. I ride Colorado & Wyoming in deep fluffy snow and no snow ingestion issues at all. Multiple days of over the hood, pinned all day.
Many of the issues I've seen are from snow ingestion and a few oil issues. I do think the 2020 version is an improvement.
Sled just rips! Granted, it is a two stroke but, I hope the good luck continues.
Many of the issues I've seen are from snow ingestion and a few oil issues. I do think the 2020 version is an improvement.
Sled just rips! Granted, it is a two stroke but, I hope the good luck continues.
do u run a little premix ? or just fuel and go ?
Well i switched recently from my 09 turbo m8 to a 18 mtn cat and was thinking about a pipe when removed the mag side piston is hammered vertical lines or grooves across the full opening of the exhaust. sled is stock 500 miles. its still seemed to run ok other than the reflash from cat gave it a bog now. the dealer said snow ingestion and there going to rebuild it but they cant do anything for all the leaks glad i have warranty . Yes ill start getting it sealed up but man .
2019 Alpha, 1050 km seized solid today.
Sounds like first thing im doing with my new 2020 is taking it apart and making sure there is not going to be snow injestion, and prenic a little
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
From what I gather, and it was the same with the Polaris, not enough oil! I burned 25L and put in about 300 ml ishh. Thats over 70:1,! They need no leaner than 40:1!
To me that's the reason engines are being toasted above all else, the epa game is tough on the engines for all the manufacturers. It's a shame with the electric oil pump we can't just turn it up. I was wondering about a reflash like from silber or precision efi if they turn up the oiler a lot more, I know silber says they can tweak a few things but haven't personally asked, that reason alone I'd be considering a reflash.
To me that's the reason engines are being toasted above all else, the epa game is tough on the engines for all the manufacturers. It's a shame with the electric oil pump we can't just turn it up. I was wondering about a reflash like from silber or precision efi if they turn up the oiler a lot more, I know silber says they can tweak a few things but haven't personally asked, that reason alone I'd be considering a reflash.
Oil used?
Oil ratio?
Completely stock?
reduce
Cat oil
I don't monitor the ratio
Stock besides a can
Thought I’d throw a little update on my engine failure,,,, the first one, mentioned earlier in this post. I’ll get to the 2nd one in a bit.
First the good news; dealer dropped a full new engine under warranty in the day I dropped off the sled and it was ready to roll. I still asked to take a demo alpha out for the weekend so I could get some better seat time than a 30 min ride on a buddy’s alpha.
The block was cracked, a good 6”, from a rod punching into it. Turns out it appeared to be from one of the main bearings letting go. Which they said was from 1) snow pushing in at the front edge of intake where the 2 parts of the nose cone meet, which then turns to water and gets ingested when sled gets rolled or a not typical angle etc. And 2) I had a few pipe springs break at y-pipe junction so when sled would get laid on its side hard the body panel would push against the pipe and subsequently melted a 2” hole in the underside of the air intake tract. So that hole would act like a Hoover and ingest any snow dust coming in through any of the vents and suck snow, aka water, into the engine. Was only a matter of time for my sled to blow something apart. I would most times see a milky substance of oily water in the entrance before the throttle bodies.
Now for the 2nd part. Remember the alpha demo I took from dealer? Ya, well, exactly one week later and 200m away in the same zone from where my 18 MC engine let go, the alpha blew its engine. Apparently same bearing with similar rod through block. It was at 1400kms. Interestingly, my buddy’s 850 doo threw a crank brg the next day. Doo would only rebuild his engine, not slap a new one in. 2 days later another friends 19 850 doo engine down,,,, was apparently a bad week for me and the people I knew.
On the bright side both were easy tow outs for me, 30 kms, but all downhill. Dealer was great in both instances and oddly enough, I've parked the sled since and haven’t even broken in the new mill even though there’s still fresh snow lines being laid down on the mtns here this morning. I also snowchecked a 20 HC and plan on going through that intake tract with a fine toothed comb to seal up anything that even remotely looks like a potential fail spot. Will also likely run the prefilter as I’ve seen elsewhere, and will ensure a fuel/oil mix closer to the 40-50:1 by adding extra oil to tank. I seriously feel it’s the snow/water ingestion but the 75:1 my sled was ~ using doesn’t sit right with me either.
On that note, any thoughts to a lean condition by dropping the fuel mixture in a computer controlled environment?
First the good news; dealer dropped a full new engine under warranty in the day I dropped off the sled and it was ready to roll. I still asked to take a demo alpha out for the weekend so I could get some better seat time than a 30 min ride on a buddy’s alpha.
The block was cracked, a good 6”, from a rod punching into it. Turns out it appeared to be from one of the main bearings letting go. Which they said was from 1) snow pushing in at the front edge of intake where the 2 parts of the nose cone meet, which then turns to water and gets ingested when sled gets rolled or a not typical angle etc. And 2) I had a few pipe springs break at y-pipe junction so when sled would get laid on its side hard the body panel would push against the pipe and subsequently melted a 2” hole in the underside of the air intake tract. So that hole would act like a Hoover and ingest any snow dust coming in through any of the vents and suck snow, aka water, into the engine. Was only a matter of time for my sled to blow something apart. I would most times see a milky substance of oily water in the entrance before the throttle bodies.
Now for the 2nd part. Remember the alpha demo I took from dealer? Ya, well, exactly one week later and 200m away in the same zone from where my 18 MC engine let go, the alpha blew its engine. Apparently same bearing with similar rod through block. It was at 1400kms. Interestingly, my buddy’s 850 doo threw a crank brg the next day. Doo would only rebuild his engine, not slap a new one in. 2 days later another friends 19 850 doo engine down,,,, was apparently a bad week for me and the people I knew.
On the bright side both were easy tow outs for me, 30 kms, but all downhill. Dealer was great in both instances and oddly enough, I've parked the sled since and haven’t even broken in the new mill even though there’s still fresh snow lines being laid down on the mtns here this morning. I also snowchecked a 20 HC and plan on going through that intake tract with a fine toothed comb to seal up anything that even remotely looks like a potential fail spot. Will also likely run the prefilter as I’ve seen elsewhere, and will ensure a fuel/oil mix closer to the 40-50:1 by adding extra oil to tank. I seriously feel it’s the snow/water ingestion but the 75:1 my sled was ~ using doesn’t sit right with me either.
On that note, any thoughts to a lean condition by dropping the fuel mixture in a computer controlled environment?
All of the new ones are running way to lean, too little fuel and too little oil. It is the only way they can meet emission standards.
Worse yet they are all going away from running a fuel/oil mix in the case and transfer ports. To me that means less consistent lubrication at an already lean ratio and no way to really fix it. Adding oil to the fuel wont work to lube the bottom end anymore. Polaris has been like this for a while and their reliability still sucks. I am not familiar with the Doo set up since I can't ride those...
so with the 19 ctec2, does a little pre mix both upper and lower? I've got about 400 hundo miles on my 19 alpha, but I'm relatively new so not a ton of super high RPMs yet. I've been adding a few of per tank... more due to old school beliefs from my 2 smoke bike days
I think there was another thread a while ago but I didnt get the just of what was said.
thx
You know I have wondered for a few years now why they don't integrate a pre-filter into the main intake part way in the main intake , not in the hood section but semi close to the throttle bodies??? Wouldn't that solve most of the problems, at least it would be the final safety barrier. Just a thought and am curious as to why that wouldn't work.
New long block going into my sled after 1050km. Cat did a nice update with the 2018 plastics but they are way over due for a more functional and properly sealed hood assembly. Pretty pitiful they can't handle building a proper hood with no snow ingestion and doesn't choke out in deep snow. The Alpha works but still last place in quality/fit and finish by a large margin.
just remember gang, right now this is a 2 year motor package. the aftermarket was "just starting to help us". now most of them will abandon this platform, to get a jump on the "new 2020 motor platform". we will be stuck and " get what we get" unless, someone decides there are enough on the snow to make a market for a "fix kit, or update". i love my 2018 with the precision flash but, want to know i can continue to trust this package, and have fix parts for down the road, to help with long term care and performance. otherwise we got a 2 year bastard motor that no one wants, and no one will service. Ski
I was looking at the silber flash, and it looked like they could revise the oil pump settings? Wonder if that would be worth looking into?
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Similar threads
