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Det issues continue.... Tried everything it seems! 11 pro

Octanee

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Hey guys, so some may remember my troubles with my sled, and it still continues. no matter what I've done I keep getting det thrown, usually happens when on off the throttle, like sidehilling in powder or climbing. I ran Race gas, 100% av gas, threw in a 3 degree timing key, swapped tps, new tps, swapped exhaust sensor, swapped knock sensor. Engines rebuilt, checked and repaired my exhaust mount. Swapped. Factory fuel injectors, turbo injectors good, fuel pumps tested, air fuel is always good in boost, fuel filters new and Has never helped. At 6500 feet running low boost of ~4 psi which should be almost like running stock at sea level in theory.

Got the boost it xic box.

It was mentioned that maybe I'm rich, so I started to lean the sled out and it does run better and gets much more crisp and responsive, when I watch my air fuel gauge I cannot see anything that stands out, no big lean puffs of air, seems to be just fine when it Throws the code. Had one pull on the trail where i was 11.5:1 and as soon as I let off the throttle it threw the code. Again low boost high octane Fuel.

Seriously thinking there's something else setting this off somehow Ecm?? I had padded Anything I could see or Think of that could rattle causing an issue.

I talk with others selling their sleds with same turbo setup and said it's the Best turbo sled they've had.... But here I am banging my head against the wall,


Last winter I took the knock sensor off, 2 weeks ago I replaced My pistons because I was Concerned however looking at them I cannot see at all any detonation damage or Chipping on top, really starting to believe its a false set code.
 

kgra

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With that amount of boost have you tried 91 octane with no race fuel? Too much octane is not better. Not saying it’s your issue but slow burn fuels and not enough timing can cause excess heat in exhaust, on exh side of piston, on power valve, etc since the burn is happening too long which can trigger knock sensor very easily getting back into throttle when it is often on the lean side of things cause aux injectors usually only kick in once boost is sensed.
Anything that can cause a rattle or knock from flexing or twisting can sometimes trigger knock sensor.
How does it idle? What rpm?
Do your spark plugs ever loosen off? It is common if you are getting det.
When you checked your pistons did you measure piston skirt to cyl wall clearance?
Is there any previous damage to inside of cylinder head?
 

Sheetmetalfab

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I had constant issues with my 2011 wiring harness.

Parting it out is the best thing to do to a 2011 pro.
 

Octanee

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With that amount of boost have you tried 91 octane with no race fuel? Too much octane is not better. Not saying it’s your issue but slow burn fuels and not enough timing can cause excess heat in exhaust, on exh side of piston, on power valve, etc since the burn is happening too long which can trigger knock sensor very easily getting back into throttle when it is often on the lean side of things cause aux injectors usually only kick in once boost is sensed.
Anything that can cause a rattle or knock from flexing or twisting can sometimes trigger knock sensor.
How does it idle? What rpm?
Do your spark plugs ever loosen off? It is common if you are getting det.
When you checked your pistons did you measure piston skirt to cyl wall clearance?
Is there any previous damage to inside of cylinder head?
I'm currently running 94 octane now, I also tried turning up the boost to see if it did anything and it made no difference either, I had the issue before the rebuild/s and before my timing key, everything I've done so far has not been the issue or the fix, had the sled apart many times and wiring harness moved around and still has not changed anything. I've played with the fuel setpoint, as well as the accel pump because yes I was thinking maybe its going lean when I get on the throttle again, it made no difference, In fact seemed to make it almost worse (maybe) hard to say, I also tried the throttle cut and nope it got big gulps of air so its not too rich when letting on and off the throttle.

It idles great, about ~2000 rpm or so, 1900 ish. spark plugs never loosen off, have had spark plug cap issues but thats resolved now. And this last go around I never measured the pistons exactly, I did compare the piston to cyl clearance between the new and old pistons and they were the same with a feeler gauge however I do not recall the measurement.

I had constant issues with my 2011 wiring harness.

Parting it out is the best thing to do to a 2011 pro.
I hear you, I feel so defeated so far by the thing, but no electrical issues yet.
 

die hard poo

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Maybe its over-revving? My old pros would do throw a det code if it over-revved. Also maybe try and put a new det sensor in? Or just say screw it and remove the det sensor and run extra octane and call it a day. Up to you lol
 

Sheetmetalfab

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I'm currently running 94 octane now, I also tried turning up the boost to see if it did anything and it made no difference either, I had the issue before the rebuild/s and before my timing key, everything I've done so far has not been the issue or the fix, had the sled apart many times and wiring harness moved around and still has not changed anything. I've played with the fuel setpoint, as well as the accel pump because yes I was thinking maybe its going lean when I get on the throttle again, it made no difference, In fact seemed to make it almost worse (maybe) hard to say, I also tried the throttle cut and nope it got big gulps of air so its not too rich when letting on and off the throttle.



It idles great, about ~2000 rpm or so, 1900 ish. spark plugs never loosen off, have had spark plug cap issues but thats resolved now. And this last go around I never measured the pistons exactly, I did compare the piston to cyl clearance between the new and old pistons and they were the same with a feeler gauge however I do not recall the measurement.







I hear you, I feel so defeated so far by the thing, but no electrical issues yet.


I had the same det issues and traced several of them to the wiring harness.
(Completely hidden in the sheath)

I’d say you do have an electrical problem.........


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Octanee

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Did you replace the plug wires?
How about your MAP sensor?
Plug wires stock, map sensor is stock and placed in intake tube to my turbo.

Maybe its over-revving? My old pros would do throw a det code if it over-revved. Also maybe try and put a new det sensor in? Or just say screw it and remove the det sensor and run extra octane and call it a day. Up to you lol
It deff could be over revving, the gauge reads so slow but I do remember even at 4psi at elevation rpm spikes of 8300 or so on the gauge. Im running IIRC the mtntk recommended clutching, red primary spring, I even welded my weights to get them heavier, but In hindsight I should of went to a lighter finish spring. I do have a few spare springs so I'll have to look at them and maybe throw one in.

I had the same det issues and traced several of them to the wiring harness.
(Completely hidden in the sheath)

I’d say you do have an electrical problem.........


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
What did you find in yours and where? I appreciate the feedback everybody! So far a few things I have over looked.
 

Sheetmetalfab

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Plug wires stock, map sensor is stock and placed in intake tube to my turbo.



It deff could be over revving, the gauge reads so slow but I do remember even at 4psi at elevation rpm spikes of 8300 or so on the gauge. Im running IIRC the mtntk recommended clutching, red primary spring, I even welded my weights to get them heavier, but In hindsight I should of went to a lighter finish spring. I do have a few spare springs so I'll have to look at them and maybe throw one in.



What did you find in yours and where? I appreciate the feedback everybody! So far a few things I have over looked.
Found wires with crumbled insulation inside the sheath.
(Crappy aluminum wire)

Also some wires had breaks inside the insulation that weren’t visible.

Unwind the entire harness to inspect every wire. (Or swap it out with a new / known good one..........


Worth trying plug wires, map sensor swaps for sure.

Bringing the max rpm down is usually a good test also. (If I ever saw 8300 on my 11’ gauge usually it was very close to overev-det.
 
Last edited:

Octanee

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With that amount of boost have you tried 91 octane with no race fuel? Too much octane is not better. Not saying it’s your issue but slow burn fuels and not enough timing can cause excess heat in exhaust, on exh side of piston, on power valve, etc since the burn is happening too long which can trigger knock sensor very easily getting back into throttle when it is often on the lean side of things cause aux injectors usually only kick in once boost is sensed.
Anything that can cause a rattle or knock from flexing or twisting can sometimes trigger knock sensor.
How does it idle? What rpm?
Do your spark plugs ever loosen off? It is common if you are getting det.
When you checked your pistons did you measure piston skirt to cyl wall clearance?
Is there any previous damage to inside of cylinder head?
Found wires with crumbled insulation inside the sheath.
(Crappy aluminum wire)

Also some wires had breaks inside the insulation that weren’t visible.

Unwind the entire harness to inspect every wire. (Or swap it out with a new / known good one..........


Worth trying plug wires, map sensor swaps for sure.

Bringing the max rpm down is usually a good test also. (If I ever saw 8300 on my 11’ gauge usually it was very close to overev-det.
That's the worst! broken wires under the insulator!

If I think about it, more boost makes the issue happen easier and more often, so at that would be more rpm spike. I think at that 6400 feet or so, 4# I was still seeing about 8k, 8100 rpm, I went on the venom site and The almond red spring people had mentioned is the same as their orange spring with a 165-310 rate, vs my 180-320 rate currently, maybe that will be enough? I would like my rpm to be lower of course as I'd like to turn the boost up if possible, so if I can see ~7800 rpm at 4# same elevation that would be great right then maybe 7#.

Just theorizing, but I think that's a good way to start at, I googled and read guys stock have had DET from hitting the rev limiter, sled rev's so quick in and off the throttle. and that's when I have my issue, If I hold it pinned the rpm settles OK and I never have the issue.
 

kgra

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Another thing I forgot to mention was check the primary weight bushings. I’ve personally had this happen to several sets of bushings. With spring removed check for side to side rock at the tip. If too much movement the tips can jam into to clutch when letting off throttle. You can usually see gouged out aluminum and a polished mark on weights at the back side when viewed relative to clutch rotation.
 

kgra

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Does it happen right away or only after a bit of riding? If it only happens after a bit could indicate more toward electrical as others are suggesting.
Hooking up a ac volt meter to the stator wires can help diagnose this to see if the stator is over heating. You could also depin the stator connector and swap with the accessory side power ( but test with meter to be sure you got the right wires In right spot or u could fry stuff, I can’t remember which ones). Can also check for fuel pump excessive draw as it heats up, it can create the same voltage drop result on the stator.
 

Octanee

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Does it happen right away or only after a bit of riding? If it only happens after a bit could indicate more toward electrical as others are suggesting.
Hooking up a ac volt meter to the stator wires can help diagnose this to see if the stator is over heating. You could also depin the stator connector and swap with the accessory side power ( but test with meter to be sure you got the right wires In right spot or u could fry stuff, I can’t remember which ones). Can also check for fuel pump excessive draw as it heats up, it can create the same voltage drop result on the stator.

Clutch weights wise, I notice some rubbing up at the pin there, I took it off the sled, here's a video of how it all looks, can I get it rebuilt and shim a washer to the side of the weights to stop them from walking over to the side and rubbing? https://youtu.be/5ISt4V09ccQ

And It'll happen right away. Never know though with this sled, had so many other issues that I had to chase them before being able to finally come back to my initial issue :face-icon-small-con
 
Last edited:

Octanee

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The scraped out area is from weight bushings worn out.
Gotcha, Did you check out the video? I just edited my post not long ago there, the weight moves a bit on the pin but theres side to side play and the weight/bolt move along as well I guess it's just wear from use? If I hold the weights to one side theres a 1/8 gap at least if not. More
where it's held in by the bolt. Maybe I can find a washer to slip in there to help hold it closer to the other side thats not worn, am I able to get new bushings for the weights? What were your symptoms when the weight was jamming/binding against the clutch there? Over rev'ing for a moment? slower clutching? Is there supposed to be something for wear on the spring/cap? I notice lots of metal wear in there from the spring binding/moving.

Kind of seems like the whole clutch needs a rebuild as well but maybe up top where the weights are is also worn out which would warrant junking the whole clutch? hmm :face-icon-small-sad Appreciate the info!
 
Last edited:

kgra

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Gotcha, Did you check out the video? I just edited my post not long ago there, the weight moves a bit on the pin but theres side to side play and the weight/bolt move along as well I guess it's just wear from use? If I hold the weights to one side theres a 1/8 gap at least if not. More
where it's held in by the bolt. Maybe I can find a washer to slip in there to help hold it closer to the other side thats not worn, am I able to get new bushings for the weights? What were your symptoms when the weight was jamming/binding against the clutch there? Over rev'ing for a moment? slower clutching? Is there supposed to be something for wear on the spring/cap? I notice lots of metal wear in there from the spring binding/moving.

Kind of seems like the whole clutch needs a rebuild as well but maybe up top where the weights are is also worn out which would warrant junking the whole clutch? hmm :face-icon-small-sad Appreciate the info!
Sorry missed the vid I just watched it now. Everything in that clutch is major wore out. That amount of slop could possibly be picked up as rattle by the knock sensor. Especially with engine accel and decel as inertia would make everything slam the one way then the other.

I was experiencing a momentary stall sometimes accompanied by det. But your clutch is way worse then I’ve been able to wear mine out without issue.

Get it rebuilt or swap it out. Far as I know any pro clutch will work and the axys will fit too but I believe the belt angle is slight diff so not sure if belts would last. Maybe someone else knows.
 

Octanee

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Bigtime wasted. Throw that thing in the trash.
Yeah unfortunately that appears to be its fate, really pondering which route to go. Can buy used but maybe it's worn out anyways? And a new ones a lot of money, Canadian dollars don't have a lot of pulling power lol. At least I have a spare pro, the clutch on it is good! Going to get my weights re-bushinged then use that for now while I hunt for a replacement.
 

WAsledder

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I'm pretty sure Indy Dan sells clutches that come rebuilt and balanced and all gone thru and if I remember right they were close to the same price as my PI dealer. That would be a no brained for me...

Just a thought... One thing that you can do (if you're using a boost gauge) is buy a boost controller from turbo smart ($84) and be able to adjust your boost without playing with springs. We run them in our silber set up and if we get close to overrevving we turn the boost down. When we go up in elevation we turn the boost up. They best part about them is they also eliminate all boost spikes.
 
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