Delete T- motion or keep it?

Delete T- motion or keep it?

  • Keep T-motion

    Votes: 88 43.6%
  • Delete

    Votes: 100 49.5%
  • Deleted it without testing first

    Votes: 14 6.9%

  • Total voters
    202

Devilmanak

Well-known member
Premium Member
Dec 13, 2007
4,230
1,518
113
47
Donnelly, ID
I turn 50 this year and have been riding since I was kid. I would say I am better than or equal in skill to most but also know that I can't hang with some of todays younger riders. Some of the older riders too for that matter :p. That being said, I locked my T-Motion out. I rode for half a season with it and as stated, the sled is squirely on a tracked up hill. Any little track edge or rut would move your weight just enough from where it was to make the sled want to go in a direction that you hadn't planned for. I choose the brass lockout so it should last a bit longer than the Skinz plastic washer version. I think when you are a bit better of a rider or you challenge the sled more than most people, it is better to have predictability. So...if you are going to try and go places you shouldn't be or hang with riders that better than you, lock it out. You'll be happy you did.
I ran the brass ones last year, loved it. But I only put 250 miles on one sled and 600 on the other. Bad year for me. I sold the 250 sled with the washers, I pulled them from the 600 mile sled. They didn't appear to wear much. I think I am going to stick them in my 175 this year and buy the Z-broz lockout for the Freeride. I beat the FR much harder than the 175, that is for the special days.:)
 

Devilmanak

Well-known member
Premium Member
Dec 13, 2007
4,230
1,518
113
47
Donnelly, ID
Awe poo. I just ordered two sets of the Zbroz. If anyone wants a good set of the brassies to try, $30 US shipped. I gotta stop drinking beer when shopping. :)
 

Meyersnow

Member
Feb 8, 2015
69
10
8
Breckenridge
Delete it, but be careful

I deleted mine on a '15 XM with the skinz washers. Eventually I cracked a part in the tunnel from having the delete kit. The part was not able to be replaced, and luckily I had an insurance claim total loss so it wasn't a major issue. I'll be going to the Skinz TMX, because it appears to cover more of the structural component. The T motion, for technical steep tree riding, is not good. Period.
 

JJ_0909

Well-known member
Nov 17, 2009
1,023
1,015
113
I went through this last season. I rode the sled with it "deleted" (more on why I put that in quotes below), not deleted, stock suspension and aftermarket suspension.

First things first, a lot of those deleting T-Motion are only limiting it. The washers still allow more flex than say an Axys. The whole entire skid (from track to the metal bits) has a fair amount of flex built in even with washers installed.

Second, everyone thinks they are Chris Burandt. Be honest with how you really ride. Be honest with the style of riding you really do. Yes, the steeper terrain (and harder the snow) the more the washers (or better, a pure delete) help *if* you are sidehilling.

Third, there are 100% places where an articulating skid is awesome. There are places its not so awesome. There is no free lunch. This is why the hill climb guys generally like it, it helps keep track on the snow and actually makes the ride smoother.

Fourth, predictability while crossing tracks has more to do with the way the ski doo is incredibly ski-heavy (and the crap stock shocks) than it does T-Motion

In the end, the power of placebo is strong. If you believe something is better, it usually is. I didn't find the sled was massively different with the washers in, but I preferred it. Other forms of lockout I tried from Tom (after I put his kit in) were preferred by me as well, but there is a lot more going on with that sled that I think contributes to the ill handling everyone talks about. Addressing these issues yields better handling than deleting/leaving T-Motion.

Someone here said "just get used to it" and I think that is some sound advice. On the other hand, washers are $50. Give them a go if you want to firm things up a bit. The skid will still flex a fair amount (especially with the track).
 

farmboy84

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 26, 2007
339
62
28
35
New Prague, MN
I agree with the "lock-outs" not really locking it out completely. I installed the ZRP washers and with the track in the air you can still pivot the skid some. I think the split front arm has a lot more influence than everyone thinks. I'm not doing anything else to mine though, the washers satisfied me.
 

caper11

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2008
664
248
43
Northern alberta
Ive rode lots of G4’s the last two seasons and I can say the 175 does not need a lockout but the shorter sleds do. I can honestly say that I despised the handling traits of a stock G4 non 175 over my xm, too unpredictable. I had to be on my A game when picking a line, especially at the end of the day when I was tired.
The munster lockout is a big help along with better valved shocks, which is exactly what I did to my 19. Keep in mind the lockout is not a total lockout, the front arm still has a piviot point and the flex edge is still there.
Since Ive had enough seat time and wrench time on G4’s I knew exactly what to do to my 19, so I just did it.
The new “straight rails” are not totally straight either. Put a level on the rails and you will see a gradual sweep upwards from the rubber bumper on the rails to the rear axle. I noticed this yesterday when I was talking to a buddy about the new rails. Sitting on my concrete floor I noticed the lugs were not touching the floor in the area I mentioned, it is way better than the old rails that had a more agressive kick at the rear.
 

Devilmanak

Well-known member
Premium Member
Dec 13, 2007
4,230
1,518
113
47
Donnelly, ID
I deleted mine on a '15 XM with the skinz washers. Eventually I cracked a part in the tunnel from having the delete kit. The part was not able to be replaced, and luckily I had an insurance claim total loss so it wasn't a major issue. I'll be going to the Skinz TMX, because it appears to cover more of the structural component. The T motion, for technical steep tree riding, is not good. Period.
How did you crack your tunnel from installing a part that made your skid like skids that have been made for many many years? And a PLASTIC part broke your tunnel?
 

Devilmanak

Well-known member
Premium Member
Dec 13, 2007
4,230
1,518
113
47
Donnelly, ID
Update: I ordered the Zbroz kit 9-10 days ago, the website said that it was in stock when I ordered. No tracking, no communication since then. I opened a PP claim last night, Z-Broz sent a "credit memo" saying that they were going to charge me almost $9 for a "change order." F that. Paypal claim opened. Zbroz screwed me three years ago on $3000 worth of shocks, I should have known better. I just ordered the Munsters, they are a great deal. Should have done that to begin with.
 

MountainTrashCat

⚙️📆🌸
Staff member
Lifetime Membership
Dec 10, 2003
68,891
6,445
113
T5M 2Z3
www.mutualpropane.ab.ca
I like this notice/disclaimer....


“PLEASE NOTE: This product will put additional strain on other components of your machine. It can cause premature wear and even failure of other components in extreme conditions. Munster is not responsible for trashing your sled, or the replacement of damaged components due to deleting your T-motion.”
 

Devilmanak

Well-known member
Premium Member
Dec 13, 2007
4,230
1,518
113
47
Donnelly, ID
I got my Munsters today, from Canada, I sheet you not. 2 days from CA to Idaho? I am still blown away. They cost $129 shipped Canadian, with is just under $100 US for the pair. Shipped. Cheaper than the ZRP washers that wear out. Disclaimer on the package says that they are wear items, should be replaced every 3000KM.
The packaging is very high quality, the parts look perfect. Thanks to the guy above who turned me on to the Munsters!
 

Attachments

Devilmanak

Well-known member
Premium Member
Dec 13, 2007
4,230
1,518
113
47
Donnelly, ID
I like this notice/disclaimer....


“PLEASE NOTE: This product will put additional strain on other components of your machine. It can cause premature wear and even failure of other components in extreme conditions. Munster is not responsible for trashing your sled, or the replacement of damaged components due to deleting your T-motion.”

I think that all of the bushing type deletes state this. The only way around that is to buy the Z-Broz type that does not exist where they take your money, don't ship your product, or reply to PP claims.
 

Matte Murder

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Premium Member
May 4, 2011
3,476
2,089
113
Putting any style of washers next to that rod end in the rear suspension doesn’t “lock out” the t-motion. There is so much leverage on that spot between 750lbs of sled and rider and nearly 100lbs of track driven by 150hp. It’s stiffening up the motion some but if you want to eliminate the side to side movement and truly lock it out you’ll have to basically swap out the skid. The front arm, rear arm, rails AND track are all flexing side to side.
I’ve always run it stock or had TOMS EMotion parts so I’m not sure what the washers feel like and some people sure do like them.
 

NHRoadking

Well-known member
Premium Member
Apr 23, 2012
493
183
43
Putting any style of washers next to that rod end in the rear suspension doesn’t “lock out” the t-motion. There is so much leverage on that spot between 750lbs of sled and rider and nearly 100lbs of track driven by 150hp. It’s stiffening up the motion some but if you want to eliminate the side to side movement and truly lock it out you’ll have to basically swap out the skid. The front arm, rear arm, rails AND track are all flexing side to side.
I’ve always run it stock or had TOMS EMotion parts so I’m not sure what the washers feel like and some people sure do like them.
Given all this, I really question how much "lock out" people are getting with these washers and other t-motion gimmicks. I've never seen any legitimate test that proves that any of them lock out the skid.
 

Devilmanak

Well-known member
Premium Member
Dec 13, 2007
4,230
1,518
113
47
Donnelly, ID
It may not eliminate all flex, but it makes it a completely different and more predictable ride. I just installed a Munster kit on my 175 tonight when I built it, will never ride another T-Motion again.
 

Matte Murder

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Premium Member
May 4, 2011
3,476
2,089
113
Devil why do you have that opinion even before you ride it?
 
Premium Features