Dedicated Snowbike?

[Pjjansson]

Game changer my ass! The most important thing to start whit is to put the engine in the right spot! Between your knees. Sleds can't do this cause of the cvt! So ditch the cvt and solve the transmission i. Another way.
After that we can chose if we. Want one or two skis, front fork or a arms, fotpegs or running bords, frame or chassie. Low power one cyl or high power twin.
Thats your game changer! Why the hell does nobody in sled design adress this key problem???

 

[JimBridger]

Game changer my ass! The most important thing to start whit is to put the engine in the right spot! Between your knees. Sleds can't do this cause of the cvt! So ditch the cvt and solve the transmission i. Another way.
After that we can chose if we. Want one or two skis, front fork or a arms, fotpegs or running bords, frame or chassie. Low power one cyl or high power twin.
Thats your game changer! Why the hell does nobody in sled design adress this key problem???

Don't forget to put the drivers in the center of your feet, but keep near the same rake and length as the kits...

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

Sled manufactures are ham strung by history, hard for them to escape their past success. They are currently trying to build the sleds we were tying to build in 1995. Lighter /narrower/better traction/more hp with the same old antiquated components. No new engineering, just annual refinements to the same old platform. Our snow bikes are stuck in the same mud, we have the azz of a sled on the azz of our bikes , hardly revolutionary just mico evolutionary.

Polaris just sent me an email asking about my RIOT purchase, actually they sent me answers they like and I'm going to rate it as 1-10 1 is awesome and 10 is unbelievable. Now there is a fast track to improve a product. Same old sad schick.
Never an answer about Riot structural problems from Polaris ??? Their net must be down! Nothing has changed in 50 years, you buy a box of parts and its up to you to figure it out, nice to know in some arenas nothing EVER changes.

On a more upbeat note, it snowed this morning. AND......I really never ever expected to not have to build my owns snowbike. I have and look forward to winter.

 

[ReTodd]

Give me a fuel injected cr500/600 and I'd be happy as ****!

I do think the head angles are too slack for our slower speeds. Good for mx but to heavy for slower tree riding.

I also think there is too much inherent weight on the ski so figuring a way to slide the skid forward 10" would make a huge difference.

A mini CVT would be perfect.

Also, a tunnel dump exhaust would be nice for sure.

 

[gdriscoll]

Give me a fuel injected cr500/600 and I'd be happy as ****!

I do think the head angles are too slack for our slower speeds. Good for mx but to heavy for slower tree riding.

I also think there is too much inherent weight on the ski so figuring a way to slide the skid forward 10" would make a huge difference.

A mini CVT would be perfect.

Also, a tunnel dump exhaust would be nice for sure.

You are going in the right direction. skid forward will get weight off front ski. You will find bike gets on top of snow faster need less hp when you are not pushing the snow. We need a new frame not a kit . kits force you to put drivers in wrong place.

 

[boondocker99]

The BRC patent and drawings seems more promising than the arctic cat design. Although i'm pretty sure Riley doesn't intend to build the bike, just to sell the design and possibly his engine. The real kicker seems to be what this narrow twin will look like. I'm assuming it will either be a twin crank front to back setup or a v twin, but they usually end up staggering the cylinders to keep the cases separate, and i'm not sure if brc managed to avoid this. I'm assuming there's a good reason that there are not any pictures detailing this. All I can say is hopefully someone drops the first design soon so the competition can start!

View attachment 338280

That design sucks! It's really not much different then a bike + kits. Track will be moved way forward on a purpose built snowbike.

 

[eric82930]

You can't move the track past the footpegs I tried it and it doesn't work. The sweet spot is having the peg about an inch in front of drive axle center bolt. And yes they float much better with weight on the track. Ive been hacking up frames for 4 seasons trying to get it right. I don't even paint my junk because it's still just for testing the geometry. If they give us a heavier engine in the front then we could move the track even more forward but the track needs to be just barely behind the center of mass including rider or it won't have enough ski pressure to turn.

 

[gdriscoll]

You can't move the track past the footpegs I tried it and it doesn't work. The sweet spot is having the peg about an inch in front of drive axle center bolt. And yes they float much better with weight on the track. Ive been hacking up frames for 4 seasons trying to get it right. I don't even paint my junk because it's still just for testing the geometry. If they give us a heavier engine in the front then we could move the track even more forward but the track needs to be just barely behind the center of mass including rider or it won't have enough ski pressure to turn.

 

[SoftOption]

That design sucks! It's really not much different then a bike + kits. Track will be moved way forward on a purpose built snowbike.

It was only thrown together to test their CVT engine. It's not a serious attempt at making a fully market-ready dedicated machine.

 

[davesilb]

I agree with what AllHatNoCattle said... Timbersled and Yeti are both selling kits for $8-10000, and people are buying them up like crazy, they’re making money. I’d absolutely love more power/a dedicated off-showroom floor snowbike and would trade in my Alpha for one.
I’ve been holding out for a dedicated snow bike but My set up is starting to get dated and want to upgrade soon. I love how well my Camso DTS129 climbs in the steep powder especially compared to more expensive kits. But if nothing comes out I will have to buy a new CRF450R and Aro3 for $20k next season.

With that photo above I do believe it will be Arctic Cat/Textron to be the first to come out with a fully setup factory snowbike, I’m guessing it will use the new 400cc 2 stroke engine from the Blast sleds they just came out with. Unfortunately they’re only rated at 65hp which is about 5 hp up from the current KTM/Husky YamaKawaSukiHonda 450mxers.

BLAST M | Arctic Cat

arcticcat.txtsv.com

65hp verses 55hp is a lot of difference when you consider the 65hp is available the min you open the throttle verses waiting for the 55hp engine to get to the correct rpms to give you that 55 hp. The rest of the time when the rpms on the bike engine are not right you have a lot less hp

 

[eric82930]

This is an oldie but the blast vs a modern 450 wouldn't be any better. Perfect clutching might keep the blast at 65hp but even if you argue the cvt only losses 5hp in heat inefficiency it's now at 60 and a very narrow power band compared to a 450 which many are over 60. plus a 450 engine weighs 62lbs with the gears. The blast will probably be heavier with the clutches and belt. The power wouldn't be the advantage but if they put the engine in the right place it would be super fun for a lot of people, especially the ones that don't know how to shift.

 

[trikerider]

My 2021 Honda Talon 1000R FLV side by side has a DCT (dual clutch transmission), it doesn't lose 15 hp like the CVT does and I can either shift it (paddles on the wheel) or run it in automatic mode. In automatic mode you can select sport mode which enables the engine to stay in higher revs. Going down hills or just slowing up the transmission shifts down using the engine so the only time I really use the brake is to stop or panic slow downs because of terrain or corners.

In auto mode it literally shifts like a supercar. It also has launch mode.

I don't know what the weight is but this would be a great transmission in a sled or snow bike.

Here's a vid explaining how the DCT works.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

My 2021 Honda Talon 1000R FLV side by side has a DCT (dual clutch transmission), it doesn't lose 15 hp like the CVT does and I can either shift it (paddles on the wheel) or run it in automatic mode. In automatic mode you can select sport mode which enables the engine to stay in higher revs. Going down hills or just slowing up the transmission shifts down using the engine so the only time I really use the brake is to stop or panic slow downs because of terrain or corners.

In auto mode it literally shifts like a supercar. It also has launch mode.

I don't know what the weight is but this would be a great transmission in a sled or snow bike.

Here's a vid explaining how the DCT works.

The Honda Africa twin 1000 motorcycle has been out for many years. (Same engine and transmission)

It’s way too heavy for a Snowbike application.

 

[eric82930]

Yes that thing was heavy and the one I rode was older and the brain wasnt too smart in auto mode.
Has anyone ever added an air shifter to a dirt bike? Then you could shift from a switch on the bars. But imo even the smartest automatic can't see what's ahead of you and anticipate what to do next.

 

[needpowder]

Keeping my yz as my main bike for another season. Then it will be a backup for my no gear shifting, no clutch, no air intake, no thermostat, no exhaust, no engine jacket, stealth bike with up to 80 hp at elevation. Guess we will see about range but I’m pretty godamn excited.

 

[Excalibur]

I am waiting for a Varg also. We need to come up with a xtra battery pack to mount in place of our typical fuel can. Depending on the weight verses the added range. For sure, just a little excited

 

[needpowder]

It will be interesting for sure. I think the batteries are pretty heavy though, I remember like 60 pounds? Still, having a bike that has 30 more horsepower and way more torque than my current one should carry that weight just fine.
I am usually only a couple miles from the truck and 90% of the days I rode I burned less than one tank of gas.

 

[Rick E]

I do hope that Arctic Cat moves forward with their Dedicated (purpose built) Snow bike..... especially with the 600cc 2 stroke engine.
I would be on board with that!

Many of us know that a dual purpose machine cannot function as well as a purpose built machine.
For example, a Dual Sport (aka Enduro) is not really a Street bike nor is it an Off-Road bike.
I put the Timbersled kits into this category.

Take a few minutes and study their proposed design.

600cc 2 stroke engine.
Direct cylinder fuel injection.
Lower center of gravity.
Iighter over-all weight.
Tunnel style heat exchanger in lieu of an up-front radiator.
Rear cylinder exiting exhaust port.... no more hot spot that can damage boots.
A real frame/tunnel combo and suspension, as aposed to what the Timber Sled offers.
CVT drive system.....allowing the drive shaft to be placed closer to the foot pegs than is possible with a snow bike kit.
No clutch hand lever, and no manual gear selections to be made.
Brake lever is now back to where it should be.
Larger fuel capacity.
A seat that actually offers some comfort.