Counter Steering Questions. Opinions?

[shelbwyo]

This last weekend my family took a trip down the the Snowy Range to get in some deep snow and learn some new riding area, and for the half of the day on friday we were on our own and didnt get to far off the trail but found some good tree/powder riding. I was riding my 97 RMK and was struggling to keep up with the 09 RMK and new Pro. So we went back and got another family members sled out of the trailer which is a 09 RMK as well. I had only ridden it once before (mostly trail). But as i got out into the powder and tried to carve I realized it was harder that I thought it would be on that type of sled. As i watched the rest of the small group as they did it, i learned that they were counter steering when they really wanted to turn. So i began to toy with it and it began to work so i kept working at it and by the end of the next day i was starting to get the hang of it. What i am wanting to get opinons about is; how much of carving through the powder is counter steering and how much is weight transfer to get optimal/easy movement? Should you counter steer before you begin to lean? Thanks!

 

[mtnpull]

This last weekend my family took a trip down the the Snowy Range to get in some deep snow and learn some new riding area, and for the half of the day on friday we were on our own and didnt get to far off the trail but found some good tree/powder riding. I was riding my 97 RMK and was struggling to keep up with the 09 RMK and new Pro. So we went back and got another family members sled out of the trailer which is a 09 RMK as well. I had only ridden it once before (mostly trail). But as i got out into the powder and tried to carve I realized it was harder that I thought it would be on that type of sled. As i watched the rest of the small group as they did it, i learned that they were counter steering when they really wanted to turn. So i began to toy with it and it began to work so i kept working at it and by the end of the next day i was starting to get the hang of it. What i am wanting to get opinons about is; how much of carving through the powder is counter steering and how much is weight transfer to get optimal/easy movement? Should you counter steer before you begin to lean? Thanks!

Counter steering is a great way to initiate a turn....it allows the sled to lean into the turn as you give it some throttle. From there I use my counter steering to "keep" me in the carve. What I mean by that is I am constantly in and out of a counter steer as needed to keep me where I want to be in the carve.

 

[norweigan flatlander]

When you get the groove you'll know it

This strange and to some people unknown thing known as weight transfer and counter steering really eludes some people, so you're not alone.
This is what i do, i lean to initiate a turn, ok not lean transfer weight, once the snowmobile is on one ski you;ll have to counter steer into the slope. this anchors the back of your ski into the snow and hold you along it. If you guys were in the meadows as it kinda sounds, just getting into the throttle to take weight off the skis will do the trick and then just lean back n forth, practice practice. noone got on ta sled and just knew how to do it man, everyone has to learn. Some people pick this up right away and ive seen others struggle with it for 2 maybe 3 years, but when you get it you'll find that snowmobiling in deep untouched snow is the only place you'll ever want to sled ever again, if you want to slow down whille side hilling turn the bars harder and lean alittle bit more and let off the throttle with practice you can actually stop while sidehilling. My recommendation to see a pro in action who really does great body positioning and a natural "flow" is on youtube type in sidehilling and boondocking youll see many people totally owning their big ol M's up sidehilling, and when you get confident enough the downhill turn. Keep practicing. P.S. oh yeah throttle control is half of the secret, if you wanna cut hard or very quickly transfer weight get into it pretty hard and the back of the sled will kick out from under you, but be careful, know your snow conditions before you do it.

 

[jzanc532]

I think I usually counter steer before I lean. Also throttle control is a huge part in this, you will never lean the sled over if you dont give it some throttle.

 

[shelbwyo]

Ok I see what you guys are saying, to initiate the carve you lean and give it some gas and then begin to counter steer to keep the carve going. Now on the side hills, by counter steering on the hill it will help keep me going up the hill. When sidehilling, ( along with counter steering ) how much of my weight should i keep on the other side, should i just lean a little or have my leg out and really be leaning? Or does the steepness of the hill kind of matter?

 

[jzanc532]

On a sidehill the counter steer helps you stay in a sidehill, rather than go up or down on the hill. Your foot position on the running board will make you go up or down, back on the running board makes you go up, forward makes you go down. As far as the amount of weight you should transfer does depend on the steepness of the hill. The schooled and schooled again videos are great for figuring out the techniques also, but the videos and advice on the net wont substitute practice.

 

[kinge]

If you picked up a bunch in one day, you are doing great! It takes tons of practice to get confident. It helps to keep a few things (that have already been said) in mind all the time, but don't get too hung up on a specific order or combination in all situations.

Weight shift, steering, throttle and the terrain/snow all contribute to the whole picture.

Weight shift is pretty straight forward.
counter steering can help initiate a carve or straighten out a carve at a given bank angle. Steering into a carve will tighten up the curve.
Throttle, a little spin will help the track stop fighting you to initiate. Spin can also make it easier to right a sled that you have tipped over during practice. If you are already laid over in a carve more throttle may flatten out the sled and less allow you to tip into it. Sometimes (deep snow) not so much. sometimes slower is much easier.
A tree well is a useful tool for turn initiation.

For the uphill turn ( pointing down and turning back up), it is helpful to be pointed a little left of downhill at initiation if you are going to turn right and vice versa.

That's all I can think of for now, besides practice lots.

Oh, and err towards tipping over always. Learn the wrong foot forward thing.

Jeb

 

[muffins51]

i found that i learned best by watching other riders who were better then me and also youtube, chris burdant has some good videos that really show how to sidehill. Just thought i would share how i learned best, besides practice takes alot to get the feel for it

 

[aebsledder]

Don't be afraid to fall either! The great thing about sledding is you have a much more forgiving substance to practice on. Like my dad told my brother and I when we were learning how to ski "If your not falling, your not trying"

Check out a fellow snowester in this thread...I would say he has the whole countersteering thing down.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247620

 

[savagecanuck]

All good info but it is a balancing act just like learing to ride a bicycle.Falling off is part of the learning curve as well as knowing your snow.Too hard of snow underneath only a foot is a disaster waiting to happen when learning.18"-24" of pow is ideal for holding a carve

 

[MORSNO]

Here are a couple of the famous countersteering 101 links.

http://www.akmining.com/snow/powder1.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3wZRciVTmQ

 

[sledcaddie]

riding techniques

Brett Rassmussen and Chris Burandt have a great video series called "Schooled". I highly recommend them. I brought the videos along on our last trip, and it really helped. Little things like "goofy-footing" or "wrong-side" foot techniques really help with weight transfer. Once you learn these balance techniques, you won't have to "muscle" your sled as much, so you won't get as tired so soon. You'll be one with the sled. Let the force be with you!:face-icon-small-coo

 

[turboless terry]

There are three things to get the job done.
1. countersteer
2. shift your weight
3. throttle control
To be good at it you need to do all three at the same time. How much of one or the other depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Depending on snow conditions and terrain I will sometimes only use two. There is no perfect formula. You could do a little less of one and more of the other to achieve the same effect. Basically you just need to learn the principles of it and then practice a bunch. Start out in a wide open meadow and when you start to catch on move to a spot with trees and make some kind of course through the trees. when you feel better move up on the hill. Then move to the hill with trees. When you get that mastered you will need to look into where your weight is on the sled. You can be told or shown all of this, and it will help a bunch, but ultimately you will have to figure alot of it out on your own. Have fun with it.

 

[shelbwyo]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I appreciate it! I cant wait to get back up to the mountain this week and try it out, i just need to get a lot of practice so it becomes natural and I can do it when ever i want. I just want to become comfortable enough so that i can make the sled go where i want it to. Thanks again!

 

[stem]

Allot of good tips out there, but one tip that got me doing great turns without wrestling the sled around was to push forward the knee on the side you want to turn.
If you want to turn right you bend your knee, pushing this forward to your console, and then counter steer.....first time I did this I tipped over due to the rapid movement in the sled. And all this happened before I started weight transfer
Try it:face-icon-small-win

 

[TIM]

go get schooled and schooled again. they explain it way better than we can.
these are movies