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Cheapest 110 octane race fuel in washington?

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Nathanken

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Cheapest 110 octane race fuel in washington?

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I am looking for where and the cheapest place to buy 110 octane in washington i can only find sunoco 110 for 9.20 a gal.. must be cheaper some where?
 
I get 110 in Moses Lake between $7-8. I think it was $7.25 when I last bought it about a month ago. That's a bit of a drive for you guys on the west side though.
 
Can both of you elaborate on why Trick 114 is Cr@p fuel?

I have been running it for 5 years now with absolutly 0 issues in both a TApex and a Vertical Assault with 14.7/1 compression and a full race port.

I have been through 15 barrels of it again with 0 issues.

I heard that it can be a bit finicky to jet on triples.

What specific issues are you having?

Sap
 
Trick Fuel

Sapling-Thrasher I spoke with Ryan and he was also telling me you run trick fuel. So it is true you have had no issues??? How many pounds of boost are you usually running? Cause if trick will work for me without to much risk, it is certainly a whole lot more affordable. Im running a alpine turbo with a .60 head shim.
 
On the TApex I mostly run in the 15-16 lb range but I am headed higher this year to 17-18lbs. I also run the equivalent to a .60 shim. I have had no issues. It has run very consistent even in my two smoker. I run it 100%. I keep the same barrel and just get it filled.

I had my Apex motor apart this summer and it was in great shape!! My Assault has never shown any signs of detonation either. The only thing that I get on occasion with the two smoker is carbon build up on my plugs on long road rides in but once I get up and take a couple of hard runs they seem to clean off. I am not sure that is even fuel related. It might have to do more with the compression and port timing.

I have run 3+ barrels a year and plan on burning more this year and for the price it is hard to pass up.

I always hear people bad mouth Trick but no real explanation other than a buddy that said it was hard to jet in his triple.

I know that I could probably get better performance out of a VP type fuel but I just have not had any issues.

Sap
 
Trick 114

Thanks so much for the info. With as much as I ride I think im going to be trying some trick this year. Last time you bought it what did it run?
 
$5.75 a gallon in May. It bounces a bit. Mid year last year it was $6.25

Keep your drum and just fill it. Then you don't have to keep paying the barrel fee. Inspect it in the fall to make sure it doesn't have any surface rust inside. I keep mine in a conditioned garage so the temps are very stable.
 
Can both of you elaborate on why Trick 114 is Cr@p fuel?

I have been running it for 5 years now with absolutly 0 issues in both a TApex and a Vertical Assault with 14.7/1 compression and a full race port.

I have been through 15 barrels of it again with 0 issues.

I heard that it can be a bit finicky to jet on triples.

What specific issues are you having?

Sap

I have had several motors detonate on Trick 114 that would not running either Sunoco 112 or VP C12. Jetting was adjusted for conditions and it still deto'd. I have been building high performance two stroke engines since 1996 and have ran the gamut of fuel testing (along with mix oils) to understand how they function in my engines. In those years of experience I have found Trick 114 falling short in a direct comparison to other fuels rated at/near the same values. I have found that if we ran the engines on the richer side- and not dialed in tight and making good heat (and power) we could get by with Trick. It is also possible to have an engine not running nearly as efficiently (lower trapping ratio, lower cylinder filling ratios) that can withstand lower octane fuels. A good example- an engine with a stock mild single pipe- octane X may function. Throw a set of twins on it and now octane X detonates. The efficiency and the state of tune has gotten high(er) enough to create problems.

Two things I look for in a fuel- a high motor octane rating and a smaller delta between the motor and research numbers.

Motor octane number/MON = relevant real world octane rating. The rating is derived from the test engine under high loads and hot coolant and air intake temps.

Research octane number/RON = perfect world octane rating. The test engine is not very loaded and coolant temps and intake temps are low(cold).

Most pump fuels are rated as M + R/2 The average of MON and RON. Sometimes expressed as PON (pump octane number).

-VP C12 is my favorite fuel- it has withstood wicked high compression ratios and lots of timing advance. Its MON is rated at 108. VP doesnt list a RON. Trick advertises their with their RON- seems a bit interesting dichotomy ...
-Sunoco 112 has a MON of 110 and a RON of 114. PON 112
-Trick 114 has a MON of 106 and a RON of 114. PON 110

The bigger the delta in the MON to RON the more likely the chemical soup of the fuel was built around just getting a good number...
Other considerations I give to fuel are the distillation curve values and the Reid Vapor Pressure. The distillation curve to me can tell me how good of throttle response a fuel may have and some idea of its chemical soup. If the values on the curve are somewhat evenly spaced and the end point is not overly high- then that fuel typically gives best all around performance. If the end point is exceptionally high- like Sunoco 110 is(NOT the 112 supreme) at 384* that tells me they dumped a bunch of branched hydrocarbons(olefins and aromatics- read stuff like toluene, xylene, MTBE, etc- the chemical soup) to simply raise the octane rating without much consideration to performance (the curve). RVP comes into play as to how well a fuel evaporates- evaporative cooling is very important in an engine.

I have recently been testing the R-Tech fuels with good sucess in 4 stroke 450cc MX engines. I have not been able to test it to my liking in the 2 stroke stuff yet so I cant comment on how it works. However with the 4 stroke stuff it has shown favorable results as it is oxygenated (1%). Tested directly against Sunoco 110 on the dyno we made 2% more power. That is a very slight increase (2HP on 45HP motor) but it was free power really- the fuel costs the same per gallon.
 
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Well there you go! Good info on fuel rating basics.

How can you be sure that it was the fuel that caused your detonation in the motors that went down. Unless you are testing the motors in the same conditions and with nothing changed how can you be sure? I am not questioning your knowledge on fuel. Just looking for clarification on what caused the deto in your motors. Can you be sure that it was the fuel? Many things could be a factor. Storage of the fuel, water, condensation, altitude, timing, ......etc.....

I still have not had any issues in 5 hard years with lots of miles running it in a Polaris 800 twin with twin SLP race pipes and 14.7/1 head and full port by M&M performance running at 3500-4000 feet.

I might not be pushing the Apex hard enough but no issues there either. Ran it all last year. I had it apart this summer and it all checked out.

The R-Tech R110 only shows as R+M/2 = 110 Do you know what the RON and MON are on it?

I do have a good source for the R110.
 
Can both of you elaborate on why Trick 114 is Cr@p fuel?

I have been running it for 5 years now with absolutly 0 issues in both a TApex and a Vertical Assault with 14.7/1 compression and a full race port.

I have been through 15 barrels of it again with 0 issues.

I heard that it can be a bit finicky to jet on triples.

What specific issues are you having?

Sap
I don't think i can say anything Backcountry hasn't, but i have not had good luck with trick, vp seems to be imo an all around better fuel, and for that reason i don't recommend running trick, but i do have to say the price of trick does make it appealing. And if price is your main motivation than trick is hard to beat. Myself Ive reverted back to pump gas motors, but if i do decide to add boost to my nytro i think im going to stick to C-12.
 
I don't think i can say anything Backcountry hasn't, but i have not had good luck with trick, vp seems to be imo an all around better fuel, and for that reason i don't recommend running trick, but i do have to say the price of trick does make it appealing. And if price is your main motivation than trick is hard to beat. Myself Ive reverted back to pump gas motors, but if i do decide to add boost to my nytro i think im going to stick to C-12.

No specific issues that you had or just opinion? I clearly agree that VP c12 is a better fuel. I am not trying to be cheap at that. I am not that type. I have just had good luck I guess. Other than Backcountrys comments I have not heard any specific reasons that people have had as to why they don't like it.

Sap
 
No specific issues that you had or just opinion? I clearly agree that VP c12 is a better fuel. I am not trying to be cheap at that. I am not that type. I have just had good luck I guess. Other than Backcountrys comments I have not heard any specific reasons that people have had as to why they don't like it.

Sap

I had trick deto in my xcr, and i was not running crazy compression, nowhere near 14.7\1 same motor ran good with c-12. 3 weekend's on c-12 no problems then i was in a hurry so i just stopped by auburn on my way to ride and grabbed some trick, deto'd again. but that's just my experience. i wish i would have had the same luck as you, would have saved me some $ last year.:rolleyes:to answer nathanken's ? trick is some of the cheapest fuel around. :D
 
Backcountry...

Have you tested any Renegade 110? I'm on the otherside of the state and we are looking at a group buy between Sunoco 110 and Renegade 110.

The MON is 108, RON is 114, gravity is .718 and RVP is 7 for RENEGADE 110

Sunoco 110: MON 105, RON 115, Gravity .728 and not sure on RVP.
 
The only issue that I have ever had with trick was in a race car, and I can tell you that it makes it harder to read plugs than anything I have ever ran in an engine. Dont know why but I have found that VP is the easiest to read. But I think they can all work in a race or high compression engine if jetted correctly.
 
Great info Backcountry, there is a lot to know about race fuels, one size does not fit all.

In addition to what Backcountry said, remember that snowmobile/two stroke motors are pumping gas through the motors at a high rate of speed, (this is especially true with turbo's) so fast that if your fuel has a higher burn points it will not be completely burned. With that being stated, if you have a higher burn point, you do not completely and efficiently burn all the fuel before it is exited out of the exhaust ports. Once this happens we make compensations in our jetting leaving performance on the table and wasting your hard earned $.

These fuels are designed and built to draw heart out of your motor and if you are blowing unspent fuel out of your motor, it will never have a chance to do what was designed to do.

Also the lower the burn point, the better you will notice in your throttle response.

One thing about race drums are not created equal. Some are lined with a polyethelene(sp)coating on the inside and some have NOTHING. If you have a trick drum and you are continuing to use it for multiple years, you will see rust and carrosion(sp) built up on the inside. Always use a good filter on your race can to prevent this from getting into your sled. Or better yet, use a good drum and the filter.

MtnSldr
 
So it's $5.25ish in Auburn for trick.

What kind of fuel are you talking about in Longview for $5.25?

Please put up the prices and location's of VP and Sonoco?????
 
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