Can't get a grip

[AdrenalineAddict]

I recently purchased a new to me 850 and have been trouble getting a grip on the stock 216 belt. At first I sort of liked the way the clutching was set-up. When I would mash the throttle it would overrev a bit to 8350 then settle in and give me a pretty decent 8,100 RPM shift curve. The backshift was satisfactory but would occasionally go haywire in long heated high speed uphill pulls dropping to 7,500 R's (where more slip would happen because of lack of squeeze). I decided to run a couple degrees shallower on the helix (more squeeze) and this helped a bit but did not fix the problem. My primary sheave would get brown and tacky part way through the day requiring a cleaning (I like to ride not perform maintenance half way through a ride). I finally realized that the initial overrev is not the clutching but the inability of the primary to grab the belt, and the weak backshift wasn't necessarily a function of the secondary being overly steep, but was slippage in the secondary resulting in a weak backshift. I cleaned my sheaves this morning and decided to try a Gates Carbon 45C4553 which worked stellar on my 800. The results were spectacular, no initial overrev, just grab ang go, backshift was nearly spot-on with the tack never dropping below 7,800 even at 11,200' in 50 degree conditions. I pulled slope after slope in an effort to create the same heated tacky sheave problems I was seeing with the 216, it never happened. Before I left the mountain I took a look at my primary and secondary, they were both squeaky clean as if I hadn't even went for a ride. Has anyone else found slip to be a problem with the 216 ?

 

[TRS]

That is common with the 3211216.
Try the new Gates 45R4553 If you like the 45C4553

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

I've never heard of the 45R I'll give it a look. Thank you, It appears you really like to test and tune, appreciate your input. I think I'll just carry the 216 as a spare, it doesn't seem to like overly warm conditions.

 

[d8grandpa]

That is common with the 3211216.
Try the new Gates 45R4553 If you like the 45C4553

Are you running the 45R instead of the 47C?

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

I felt there was something wrong with the set-up the first time I squeezed the throttle, just took a few rides to figure out exactly what was wrong. Time to ride instead of tune, let it snow!!!

 

[TRS]

Yes, I run the 47R instead of the 47C4572
I was answering with the R replacement of the 45C.

 

[go-on-two]

Yes, I run the 47R instead of the 47C4572
I was answering with the R replacement of the 45C.

Hey Tony you mentioned awhile back you were going to try the new Gates "R" belt this year, is it performing well?

 

[Teth-Air]

I recently purchased a new to me 850 and have been trouble getting a grip on the stock 216 belt. At first I sort of liked the way the clutching was set-up. When I would mash the throttle it would overrev a bit to 8350 then settle in and give me a pretty decent 8,100 RPM shift curve. The backshift was satisfactory but would occasionally go haywire in long heated high speed uphill pulls dropping to 7,500 R's (where more slip would happen because of lack of squeeze). I decided to run a couple degrees shallower on the helix (more squeeze) and this helped a bit but did not fix the problem. My primary sheave would get brown and tacky part way through the day requiring a cleaning (I like to ride not perform maintenance half way through a ride). I finally realized that the initial overrev is not the clutching but the inability of the primary to grab the belt, and the weak backshift wasn't necessarily a function of the secondary being overly steep, but was slippage in the secondary resulting in a weak backshift. I cleaned my sheaves this morning and decided to try a Gates Carbon 45C4553 which worked stellar on my 800. The results were spectacular, no initial overrev, just grab ang go, backshift was nearly spot-on with the tack never dropping below 7,800 even at 11,200' in 50 degree conditions. I pulled slope after slope in an effort to create the same heated tacky sheave problems I was seeing with the 216, it never happened. Before I left the mountain I took a look at my primary and secondary, they were both squeaky clean as if I hadn't even went for a ride. Has anyone else found slip to be a problem with the 216 ?

So you are saying your RPM's dropped due to slipping?? I must be understanding you wrong as slipping would not cause a low RPM, it would over-rev if anything? Not doubting you, just unclear.

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

Slipping in the primary can cause momentary overrev, a bad grip in the secondary can negatively affect backshift and the torque feedback to the helix resulting in underrev because of weak backshift. Slipping in the primary can at times have the same result, if you're midshift and your primary starts slipping you now have less torque feedback to the secondary and it will upshift thinking you suddenly you are now on a less resistant surface/hard snow, resulting in underrev. I was having both happening with the 216, my R's would peak at 8350 on the initial squeeze, settle in to 8,100 to mid hill, and then begin to wander depending on the varying degree of belt grip. I would replay the run and would see 8350, 8100, 7500, 8000. When I removed the 216 and ran the 45C4553 my rerplay would show 7900 at squeeze, and hold 8000 to 8100 the entire pull, the secondary was not getting varying torque feedback and would hold a more consistent RPM.

 

[Teth-Air]

Slipping in the primary can cause momentary overrev, a bad grip in the secondary can negatively affect backshift and the torque feedback to the helix resulting in underrev because of weak backshift. Slipping in the primary can at times have the same result, if you're midshift and your primary starts slipping you now have less torque feedback to the secondary and it will upshift thinking you suddenly you are now on a less resistant surface/hard snow, resulting in underrev.

I understand what you are saying now, its the aftermath of the slip that you see the drop in RPM, not the slip itself. We are not seeing slip with our clutching with the stock belt. FWIW.

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

I have a friend who runs a few different 850's with the 216 and he is not seeing any slip either, his sheaves are clean as a pin, mine look like they've been smeared with asphalt and we run the same clutching. I run my sled roughly 10 times as hard as he does and I have a gut feel that when the clutch and belt heat reach a certain point the belt starts to transfer compounds to the sheave face. I heated the hell out of things yesterday (on purpose), 50 degree air temps and about a half dozen back to back pulls up long steep powder pull, and my sheaves were still clean. I think people like myself who have not yet learned to mellow out between runs may need a different compound.

 

[Teth-Air]

I have a friend who runs a few different 850's with the 216 and he is not seeing any slip either, his sheaves are clean as a pin, mine look like they've been smeared with asphalt and we run the same clutching. I run my sled roughly 10 times as hard as he does and I have a gut feel that when the clutch and belt heat reach a certain point the belt starts to transfer compounds to the sheave face.

I bet you are correct. Watch for melting bushings too if you are getting them that hot. Any chance you are getting some snow on the clutches? I had this problem in 2016 and had to install footwell screens. Where I ride now has wetter snow that doesn't give me a problem.

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

I don't think it's snow because we haven't had much powder to ride so far this season, one other factor with the heat might be that I'm not exactly a cracker-ass, I weigh 246 with my gear on.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

If your clutching is so sensetive that a belt swap is going to cause a major change in performance then I will say I doubt your operating that optimally.

While the 216 vs the Gates R or C belts do have different characteristics thats WAY too senstive to suggest good clutch setup IMO.

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

Let me know what you think. 10-66's, 130/340 Primary, 60/40 Helix w/Black Purple, typically ride 9,000' to 10,500', the 62/42 will not hold R's at +10,000'. Running RPM 8,300 to 8,350 on the trail from 6,500'-8,000', 8,100 RPM from 8,000'-9,000', steep pulls from 9,000' to 11,000' yields 7,800 to 7,900 R's. Typical ambient air temp of 40 to 50 degrees here in NE Nevada. I went on a second ride with the 45C and couldn't be happier, clutching performed flawlessly, not a glitch in 35 miles of riding, hood has multiple vents. I had the exact same clutching issues with the 1183 on my 800 with stock Polaris recommended clutching, all was well at 20 degrees, clutching became inconsistent at +40 degree air temps until I switched to the 45C. Sheaves turn brown in + 40 degree air temps with both the 1183 and 216.

 

[madmax]

Run the full TRS clutch set up, you’ll be very happy.

 

[Teth-Air]

Run the full TRS clutch set up, you’ll be very happy.

I heard the backshift suffers. What is your experience?

 

[summ8rmk]

The only thing i don't like about the TRS setup is slow speed, downhill engine breaking.
Everywhere else it excels.

Tested side x side with other kits and SLP pipe stock and with kit.
The kit flat out works! I think its equal to the pipe kit, if not more.

The SLP piped sleds pull 2 more grams and 100 more RPM.

Get TRS clutching and Indy Specialties heavy cover and u will be pleased!



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