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Can the 2020's CTEC engines be expected to have more or less longevity than the 2019 models?

Frostbite

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I have been reading an awful lot about Alpha Ones. The 2019 models came with the slotted pistons where fuel and engine saving oil was injected. There were a few piston skirt related issues. Cat then cleaned up their emissions act for 2020 by directing the fuel and oil directly into the cylinder. The 2020's make more power and run cleaner but, can the 2020's be expected to have more or less longevity than the 2019 models? It sounds like a snow filter for the air intake may be in order for either version of the engine? Thoughts?
 

Matte Murder

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My 19 uses so little oil it’s scary lol. One gallon went over 600 miles! Man it runs so clean, really love the smooth power, great mid-range and top end power seems close to the Poo/Doo 850s.
 
S
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doing a good job of sealing the airbox on the cat negates the need for a filter...i add 1 ounce of oil per gallon of gas to the gas tank for the concerns you state... i think the 20 will probably outlast the 19, as i think the slotted piston had the potential of being problematic as the miles pile on (time will tell, however)....the 850's will out run the alpha in a drag race on flat ground unless the snow is deep, but not by a lot....an uphill race in deep snow, the alpha wins...my 20 alpha consistently outclimbs either 850 in the deep....last, but not least, the alpha is so much more fun to ride...just my opinion of course, but the only one that counts to me...
 

Octanee

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Supposedly the 18/19 ctec was based/brought from the racing teams, supposed to be a solid engine. I know of 2 ctec2's that clocked decent mileage, I believe one guy had about 3500 km of hard riding on his 19 alpha, traded it off. Then another is a 18 still going, I want to say roughly the same if not more km's.


I haven't heard of many complaints on this forum of issues with them. The 2020 I don't think really makes much more power as per the bikeman dyno, and if it did it would be in the ecm tune of which just reflash the 19/18 ecm and they should both be the same.

Fuel sprayed in the crank *can* be a good thing in regards to it cooling down the air a bit/bearings. Though how much I'm unsure. So pros and cons lol.

If your on the fence of what to buy I'd either see about a demo'd 2020 this spring or look at the 19's.


I got a 19 last spring because it was basically 50% off of new, was a demo sled with 1k km on it, warranty yet to be activated so still the 1 yr warranty. but for the price you couldn't go wrong!
 

Frostbite

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Great inputs guys (well most of you). I see the deals on 2019's are getting real good and the 2020's are about $1,000 to $1,500 more and wondered which engine you guys in the know were having the best luck with. I may have missed the reports but, the old Suzuki motor was nearly bullet proof and didn't seem nearly as susceptible to snow ingestion engine damage as the new CTECs. Thanks again. I'll be working up a new way of asking a different question. ;)
 

Octanee

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Great inputs guys (well most of you). I see the deals on 2019's are getting real good and the 2020's are about $1,000 to $1,500 more and wondered which engine you guys in the know were having the best luck with. I may have missed the reports but, the old Suzuki motor was nearly bullet proof and didn't seem nearly as susceptible to snow ingestion engine damage as the new CTECs. Thanks again. I'll be working up a new way of asking a different question. ;)


I'm new to the a/c team for this season, but being in the hills and seeing/reading that yes the old Suzuki engines were very good, time will tell but so far the ctec2 still seems good. But that said it sure is sad that a/c was lousy with the airbox sealing indeed, they all have the issue and even the 2020, good news is it doesn't take too much time to seal it up with some silicone anyways lol.
 

CO 2.0

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My 19 Alpha engine blew yesterday. Around 800mi. Oil pump is working fine. Tested that this AM. Now on to breaking it down to see the cause. Happened 3 miles in on the trail 1/2 to full throttle. Non ethanol gas. Fully warmed up.
 

boondocker97

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The $1000-$1500 more for a year newer would be worth it for me to have the newest model. $2500+ difference then maybe I'd look at the 2019. You'll make the $1000 back on resale being a year newer anyway.
 

dunatyk

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My 19 Alpha engine blew yesterday. Around 800mi. Oil pump is working fine. Tested that this AM. Now on to breaking it down to see the cause. Happened 3 miles in on the trail 1/2 to full throttle. Non ethanol gas. Fully warmed up.
Keep us posted. I’m curious to hear what the root cause is
 

CO 2.0

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Crank bearing failure, which then took out my piston. Same failure as my 18 had. Now I need an entire new engine. 1 month out of warranty of course. Im wondering if the crank bearings just aren't getting enough oil. I might do a bikeman flash and turn up the oil
 

Goinboardin

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Jordan, that sucks man. Good you've got that mtn cat to keep you on snow.

As for differences, I was under the impression the '20 fuel injection setup is only into the transfer port (vs slightly above it in the 18/19) and no injection above the piston at lower RPM/load like the 18/19. This injector position change eliminated the need for a piston slot to get fuel/oil into the bottom end. No longer dual stage injection, just direct port injection regardless of RPM or load. It would seem to me this is going to get more oil to the bearings in the low-mid RPM range, and make little-no difference on top end? Sounds like an improvement? Both generations premix oil in the fuel rail. Of course, they could dial back oil flow rate on the '20 at lower RPM/load even further (to clean up emissions), and my line of reasoning above falls apart. Injector aimed at wrist pin through piston slot (at high rpm, only above pistons at lower) vs constant spray in transfer port. Which gets more oil into the case? Are crank failures mostly a trail/light load thing or high load?

There was a change to crank bearing oiling as well. Something about it being more direct with the engine update. Crankcase part numbers don't match '18/'19 vs '20. Sounds like improvements to me.
 
R
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Crank bearing failure, which then took out my piston. Same failure as my 18 had. Now I need an entire new engine. 1 month out of warranty of course. Im wondering if the crank bearings just aren't getting enough oil. I might do a bikeman flash and turn up the oil
Theres a 30 day grace period typically on warranties. Make sure your dealer tries to get it warrantied. Good will is a possibility too.
 

Frostbite

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Sorry CO 2.0, that's too bad.
After reading about several 2018 and 2019 engine failures, are the 2020 engines with all the changes "improvements" experiencing the same frequency of engine failure as the 2018 and 2019 models? In other words, are the engine changes to the 2020 models working?
 

CO 2.0

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I tried, Textron says F you on warranty. This isnt Cat anymore. Luckily i found a primary roller starting to fail as well. More failed parts! And a huge bill now. Cat customer service is what kept me loyal over Poo for years. That time has ended. Only thing keeping me on cat is my dealer, which textron is now fvcking them over more as well... From what Im reading now factory 1 year warranty doesnt cover either clutch. Due to a wear part.
 
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CO 2.0

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My dealer said that if you do not buy a cat care warranty within 3 months of the purchase of the sled, then you can not buy that warranty. If it is an in season purchase. New to me. So fvck cat care and textron. All about covering their a$$ now...
 

tenacious84

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Both generations premix oil in the fuel rail.

There was a change to crank bearing oiling as well. Something about it being more direct with the engine update. Crankcase part numbers don't match '18/'19 vs '20. Sounds like improvements to me.

The oil is NOT injected into the fuel rail on the 2020 models as it was on the '18 and '19. The first gen has a fuel rail with two connections (gas and oil) with the oil connection actually having a check valve in it so the fuel does not back feed into the oil line. The second gen only has one connection. Unless it mixes prior to getting to the fuel rail?

The change to the oil injection is that it was previously being injected through a barb on each of the reed valves. Now, each of those barbs has been moved from the reed valves directly to the crankcase just below the reed valves. The "upper" half of the crankcase is the same for all three years '18, '19, '20, but the lower half of the '20 has the oil injection point mentioned in the previous statement.

Another point of interest is that if you look at a '18 or '19 lower crankcase, the hole for the oil is there just like the '20, but it's just not drilled and tapped like it is on the '20. This is even true of the 600cc crankcase dating all the way back to model year 2014 when it was first released. I think it's interesting that they just now (7 model years later) decided to use that oiling location.
 

Frostbite

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Now that's some great information Tenacious84! Do you think 2018-2019 engine failures drove them to add the additional oil line for 2020? Since the line has been added, has it improved the reliability/longevity of the CTEC engines? Did they add the lower end oil line to just the 800 for the 2020 or did the 600 CTEC get the additional oil line as well? Does anyone know if the CTEC 600 engines have had a similar failure rate over the last 6 model years?
 

tenacious84

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Now that's some great information Tenacious84! Do you think 2018-2019 engine failures drove them to add the additional oil line for 2020? Since the line has been added, has it improved the reliability/longevity of the CTEC engines? Did they add the lower end oil line to just the 800 for the 2020 or did the 600 CTEC get the additional oil line as well? Does anyone know if the CTEC 600 engines have had a similar failure rate over the last 6 model years?
there is actually less oil feed lines on the 2020 versus the ''18-'19. on the '18-'19 there was three (one on the fuel rail and one on each reed valve manifold). on the 2020 there is only two (both are on the crankcase under each of the reed valves). I'm guessing the change to the fuel rail is because when the slotted cylinder was eliminated, the need for oil at that injection point was eliminated. i mean if you are no longer injecting the fuel/oil mixture underneath the piston, there is no longer a need for oil to be added to the mixture. adding oil to the boost port (new injection point) would be of little to no benefit. as far as moving the injection points from the reed valve manifolds to the crankcase, i'm not sure of the reasoning there. I mean it's still not really directed at any of the bearings, the only difference would be that the oil now mixes with the air after the reed petals instead of before the reed petals.

the 600 engine hasn't changed by design since it was introduced in 2014. there has been a couple part number changes along the way, but i believe that was only due to very small changes to a couple supplier changes. there has been no change to the fuel or oil delivery of the 600.
 
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