I rode my M8 today after filling it with real premium unleaded gas without ethanol. I swore my sled pulled harder than I remember it pulling in the past with 10% ethanol premium. I know these sleds have a knock sensor so I am wondering if perhaps the sled is detecting the difference between fuel with ethanol and fuels without ethanol? Has anyone else ever noticed the difference between fuels?
Can a M8 tell the difference between real gas and ethanol?
- Thread starter Frostbite
- Start date
unless you were in death valley, the knock sensor had nothing to do with it.
Faulty butt dyno circuitry
. The difference would be after the gas has sat for a while... and the eth has pulled in some moisture, but the non eth hasn't.
I've run both trying to tell the difference & never have.
Faulty butt dyno circuitry
. The difference would be after the gas has sat for a while... and the eth has pulled in some moisture, but the non eth hasn't.I've run both trying to tell the difference & never have.
When I was in Cooke City last year they had real non ethanol fuel and I was trying to figure out how to reprogram my Power Commander III for the fuel. I know I read it somewhere. Then when I spoke to SLP about it, I was told the sled (or maybe the controller, I doubt it) just knows the difference and automatically compensates.
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Beckwith24
Active member
The HO motor is not designed for ethanol. It will run very lean so the ecu compensates by adding more fuel. The timing is designed for 100% 91 octane unleaded, which burns at a certain speed and temperature. Anything else but this fuel at sea level will affect performance. Higher elevation can handle lower octanes (still without ethanol). DON'T RUN ETHANOL!!!
Mine is an 09 with the SLP performance edition kit. Maybe it was the new belt but, I don't remember my sled ever pulling as hard as it did yesterday with REAL premium fuel in it vs. the ethanol fuel I typically have to run. I just wondered why or how it could be so. Maybe I was imagining things?
sorry, gonna call TOTAL BULLSH**.
most people can't even get non ethanol anymore. You can't sell non ethanol fuel in CO.
When we could get it, I ran it. I have switched back & forth & you can tell more difference in running too high of octane that you do from running ethanol. But hey, if you want to spend more, drive around looking for it, and freak out about what fuel you're running... GO FOR IT, it's all you bud.
There are people who think they need to run straight AV or straight race for 6 or 7 lbs wen we run double that without a problem with a couple gallons per tank too. They'll swear up & down that you NEED that fuel, anything else is less ideal. Then I blow by them running double the track speed with $40 a day less fuel in my tank.
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FrostBite2010
Well-known member
I have ran 87 octane in my 2010 m8 every ride this year at 0-3000 with no issues. No detonation, piston wash looks great and I ride it HARD!
I will say that my sled is a little on the rich side, but ethanol or not, it runs the same. As backcountry said, most people boost their octane thinking it will improve performance when all they are doing is throwing away money, let alone it actually runs WORSE!
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Beckwith24
Active member
You clearly don't know much about fuels. The guy said right in his post that he felt a noticeable increase in power without ethanol... You said that when you had non ethanol, you ran it. How is anything I said bull? Don't run ethanol if you have the option of a fuel without ethanol. I mean you think I was telling you to drive to MN to get gas? It's not like ethanol is terrible, it just decreases performance and leans out your motor to possibly dangerous levels. (2011 ecu recall dealt with ethanol and changed the ecu to add more fuel when ethanol was being used)
Also, higher octane burns longer... that's y race fuel is needed for high compression, high horsepower engines so it doesn't deto. If you can push that much boost without detonating, you go girl. There is absolutely no need to add octane if your not detonating.
I'm not trying to talk to you like you don't know what your talking about but y would you give my post negative feedback and call it bull? It's all true bud.
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Beckwith24
Active member
http://www.arcticinsider.com/Article/2011-Arctic-Cat-800-Reflash-The-Fix-is-in-for-Ethanol
Here ya go. Personal experience aside.... The facts prove you wrong. So if you want to share your opinions on this site, go ahead, but don't try and say someone's FACTS are wrong. Sorry to hear you can't get pure gasoline. I would buy a PCV and increase the fuel if I had to put in ethanol.... but that's just me.
Here ya go. Personal experience aside.... The facts prove you wrong. So if you want to share your opinions on this site, go ahead, but don't try and say someone's FACTS are wrong. Sorry to hear you can't get pure gasoline. I would buy a PCV and increase the fuel if I had to put in ethanol.... but that's just me.
My opinion on this subject. I have a '11, ran ethanol all last season. I ride at 5000 to 7800 feet. Had the recall done. Finally got to ride, used NON ethanol on this ride and didn't notice a difference. Will check the mileage to see if it is any better. I know lower elevation riding is different, does anybody who rides higher have a different opinion?
You're CLEARLY wrong, just ask beckwith. If you run ethanol, it's a HUGE disadvantage... you can't even do it....
this article you posted shows a fix for a basic issue they had with low elevation riders (look at the first sentence in my post)having det sensor issues.
For all of the rest of us, this is a non issue. The FACT that they did a flash, and it allows the sled to better deal with ethanol... says exactly that it's not a problem.
Btw, I know hundreds of riders with stock or modded sleds in this state and we ALL run ethanol without a problem, so for you to say "don't run ethanol" is rather misguided. Oh, and none of us are silly enough to run a fuel box on a stock sled either.
IF you want to post "facts", try to stick with reality... tens of thousands of sledders run ethanol fuel every day & we're all just fine.
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Beckwith24
Active member
Thanks for sharing your opinion. Y didn't you do that the first time without the immaturity? And protecting a stock motor from a lean condition is not silly. The 11's are much leaner than the 10's. If I had a 10 I wouldn't get a PVC for a stock motor. Again, just me.
Again... there are countless of these sleds running just fine on ethanol. SOME had issues with det on occasion, but only at low elevations.
I have yet to EVER hear of a single sled burning down because the ethanol made it too lean. EVER. SHow me ONE example of what would make you waste your money on a fuel box on a stock sled & maybe I'll agree with you a little, but when you make an absolute statement like "don't ever run ethanol" you look silly & you cause people to waste time & money thinking somehow there's an issue that doesn't exist.
I'm not real fond of fearmongering, and if you want to make the statement that someone NEEDS or should run a fuel box on a stock 11... it shows you've got limited experience with these sleds. You may "know" some stuff about fuel, but most of us are more concerned about real world application & practice over theory. Show me ONE example of a sled that would have benefited from a box STOCK, and we'll have a different conversation, till then, I disagree with you 100%.
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jasn179
Active member
Well gotta say that since april 2011 ALL gasoline sold for highway use contains at least 10% ethanol that is a fact it is a federal law no and ifs or butts. The reason that ethanol it put into the fuel is because it contains more oxygen. It has been proven that oxygenated fuels reduce polution in internal combustion engines (mainly co) that is fact. Ethanol based fuels are capable of making more horsepower then non ethanol based fuels that is another fact. (think about drag racing and monster trucks) Now the bad news because ethanol based fuels contain so much more oxygen you need more fuel to do the same work thats why engines not set up for ethanol run lean. On the arctic cat engine the pipe temperature sensor compensates the fuel mixture and allows the use of up 2 10% ethanol. More bad news the federal goverment is so happy that they are profiting on fuel tax from the ethanol buisness they are doing testing to make it manditory that all gasoline fuels have 15% ethanol that will be bad for the small 2 stroke engine and mean lower mpg for your car.
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jasn179
Active member
A new belt with properly tuned clutches will always pull harder mainly because of the width the clutches are able to clamp the belt harder as the belt wears the clutches clamp the belt further out loosing rpms and the harder pull feal.
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jasn179
Active member
sorry to rant but a couple more facts on ethanol more drawbacks ethanol likes water alot and insted of water settling to the bottom of your tank it is absorbed by the fuel causing frozen fuel lines. Also the shelf life for fuel with ethanol is way less so get in the habit of putting some sort of a fuel stabilizer. Most people will never notice an performance change with a 10% ethanol fuel. The biggest thing to notice is about 3% loss in fuel economy.
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snowmobiler
Well-known member
i run eth,my bud dont.he pays a dollar more a gallon and i still kick his azz.
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Beckwith24
Active member
Go ahead and disagree. See if I care. Here in MN we have all ethanol mixed fuel 10% but 91 is non ethanol thankfully.
If you want to talk about real world experience. People with or without the ecu update still experience limp mode due to ethanol. I guess the tens of thousands of riders you know of that don't have any issues must not go on the forums. Is that real world enough for you? It's pretty simple. If you can run non ethanol fuel, do it. How can you disagree with that? Oh I forgot, guess what solves the limp mode issue on a stock sled.... Pcv. But that's just a waste of money and misleading right?
If you want to talk about real world experience. People with or without the ecu update still experience limp mode due to ethanol. I guess the tens of thousands of riders you know of that don't have any issues must not go on the forums. Is that real world enough for you? It's pretty simple. If you can run non ethanol fuel, do it. How can you disagree with that? Oh I forgot, guess what solves the limp mode issue on a stock sled.... Pcv. But that's just a waste of money and misleading right?
