Bike discussion

[Brewhaha]

Hey All,
I did a rental this winter in the park city area (kx450 + riot 3). Having had 3 prior days snow mobiling, as well as 20 years dirtbiking, I said **** it, I'm getting me a snow bike.

Long story short,
I think I made a sound decision and fun checked the cmx 129 for 2023. My old man has an 500 exc he is going to let me use for the winter.
However, I am having a hell of a time trying to iron out what would be the ticket for a bike.
2 stroke - 300 (500 is just too nitche and spare parts would be a burdon..)
4 stroke - 390, 450, 500/501

I have been trying to do my research and trying to figure out what I should focus on, but could really use some suggestions. My rental kx450 was great, however on the riot 3 I still felt like I could have enjoyed more power.

-Exc 500 /husky501 seems to be a trade off of weight for a little more power
-The 450 gearing and power to weight seems to be pretty strong
-The new ktm 300 with the new injection seems to be a real contendor, however i dont have any experience with a 2 stroke minus a kx100 from 20 years ago.

Advise?

 

[eric82930]

If you are in park city, you need a bike to keep tires on year round to ride moab in the winter. The 2 stroke should be for dirt typically unless you race desert or professional Motocross.
If the KX felt underpowered then the 500 EXC won't be any better unless you do a lot of mods.
To me Any bike feels under powered with a 3"track if the snow isn't ridiculously deep and fluffy it acts like an air brake. Is your cmx a 3 inch?

If you just want the most power, get a stock ktm or Yamaha 450 mx bike or fx xcf. or husky equivelent. Don't get a dual sport or trail version. If you don't feel comfortable revving the piss out of it then get a 500 but plan to spend money on mods the first time a 450 passes you.

And when you win the lottery get another 2 stroke with a riot short track and back country ski just for spring riding. Right now the snow is amazing and everyone is staying home mowing lawns.

 

[snoballssnoglory]

If you are in park city, you need a bike to keep tires on year round to ride moab in the winter. The 2 stroke should be for dirt typically unless you race desert or professional Motocross.
If the KX felt underpowered then the 500 EXC won't be any better unless you do a lot of mods.
To me Any bike feels under powered with a 3"track if the snow isn't ridiculously deep and fluffy it acts like an air brake. Is your cmx a 3 inch?

If you just want the most power, get a stock ktm or Yamaha 450 mx bike or fx xcf. or husky equivelent. Don't get a dual sport or trail version. If you don't feel comfortable revving the piss out of it then get a 500 but plan to spend money on mods the first time a 450 passes you.

And when you win the lottery get another 2 stroke with a riot short track and back country ski just for spring riding. Right now the snow is amazing and everyone is staying home mowing lawns.

Good advice. 300 would be tough for where you will ride.
I’d say ride your dads a year or two. Get your experience and then you will buy a yammi or Ktm. Prolly Ktm since you will have that fit kit already.


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[dooman92]

brewhaha, I would suggest trying your dad's 500. I have ridden the 450sx, xc, and put couple hundred hours on a yami 450fx. I've had two ktm 500's in succession and for my riding style prefer the additional torque and the six speed with low !st of the 500's. If you are a rev limit bumping aggressive rider and don't mind working thje clutch the 450sx,xc appears to be the prefered ride based on comments in this forum. Yeah, for best performance, in the range of the 450's, you would need to open the intake and exhaust and a performance ecu on the 500.

How and what terrain you ride can make a difference. In the trees moving slow, I cannot ride my buddies 450xc as I stall it alot but, the six speed in my 500 I can almost stop and then accelerate without slipping the clutch or stalling. On an open hill climb, I can do as well with the 450 as I do with the 500 just at a little higher rpm. My younger more aggressive buddy does better on the 450xc on the same hill climb and better in the trees but slips the clutch alot. You will enjoy the ride either way.

 

[isell]

My 16 year old son rides a hot rod ktm 450 with a riot kit. He has a blast on the bike and is fun to watch do things I can only dream about. I, on the other hand, ride a 501 thats been worked on with a 137 aero, and love it. I can get through the trees with minimal work, climbs great for me, and most importantly, I can walk at the end of the day.

My son loves his ride and it works for him, I can't stand it. Love the 6 speed, and the ability to lug the bike and short shift. My point is, ride whatever, when you get som experience under your belt, then make the bike decision that is best for you.

 

[Brewhaha]

300 would be tough for where you will ride.
I’d say ride your dads a year or two.

Well as much as I agree with everyone on the 450, I'm just stuck learning towards the 300 for the time being. The thing thats really selling me is that I'll have a really good trailbike for the summer. My thinking also being I can do a tpi -> tbi for a bit more power, i can also dabble in the echaus/intake, expansion chamber, as well as the possibility of really stepping up the cc(brc).
I thinking seeing how much i struggle/succeed on a 2t will really help me think for if i need/want to pivot to a 450 or bigger.
I do pretty good slipping clutch and making the bike work for me, i think the biggest thing i need to work on accepting is that they are not going to point like a sled, but you will have way more fun in the trees and even a good downhill section

 

[eric82930]

If you are OK with having only one bike and skipping all the winter desert then the the two stroke would be my choice too. It will be way better in the summer and almost as good in the snow. The mathematical equation for that would something like 10+8.5/2 is > 6+9/2 = ???

 

[Brewhaha]

Winter desert? Ya mean the pow pow? Sounds like not as good but should be amazing.

Oh also.

your cmx a 3 inch?

Cmx is standard 2.5" from what i see. However they have a 12.5" width vs the TS 11.5. The suface area would have a bigger difference, from an engineer perspective. Coworker snow wheels and that seems to be the bigger problem, but then again, he isnt sending it, nor trying to point up pitches.

If i get the setup going, should we do a climboff to get some data points? Obviously its got some varience.. but.. data points.. forums and reviews are so this/that, data is truth!

 

[Allseasons]

300’s are ok on snow. With a high compression head and a pipe, they are just ok. Pack more fuel for a full day.
Data, whatever. The cmx will work good, especially on a 300, but nothing moves snow like a 3”
A 300 with that cmx will be fun for sure. Good choice for dual sport


Also, don’t get caught up chasing the BRC dream. Garbage without thousands in software upgrades. Crap on fuel consumption. Donor your 300 case to complete it. The only guys who love a “stock”BRC, don’t understand how a 2 stroke should run “on pipe”.
Better off to have two bikes. Dedicated to each sport than chase that fantasy. Flame away, don’t care

 

[isell]

I did the 300 thing for a couple of years for budget reasons. 2018 Husky TX 300 with a 129 aero kit. I put a RKTek Head on, shorty silencer, and let it rip. Carb heat and an engine blanket fixed all the icing issues. It was down on power compared to everyone else, but I sure had fun! My son in law still runs a Beta 300 with a 120 kit, and has a blast as well.

 

[Brewhaha]

Carb heat and an engine blanket fixed all the icing issues.

I was looking into if i needed this. Does sound like carb heater is a firm need, saw some videos w.o a blanket but I think that having it is a smart idea.

I am planning on getting a trail buddy which can also run a wire to the rad to check temperatures, but it seems people have a separate temp gauge for the engine or the carb too?

Better off to have two bikes

Yeah wouldn't that be nice lol. Maybe in a couple years. I've had to make alot of changes to get a winter snowbiking setup (truck, snow kit, bike) so I'm burning the biggest hole in my pocket. Also i get that on the 500 kit. I'm sure the 300 will be plenty fun and I'll go cry in a corner when the 450s pass me

I wonder if cmx would ever do a 3". Seems like things are so tight and close to the bike that it would need some different linkages and potentially suspension setup depending on how it changes suspension angles. When i talked to Mark about it he didn't seem eager at all, he was pretty adimant that the 2.5" with the wider track does great.


Should get the 300xc in from the dealer in a couple weeks, Ill get some rides in this summer to see how it feels and compare it to my dads 500exc and coworkers 450sx

 

[eric82930]

If you get a 300 tpi you won't need carburetor heat. (no carb) But it will need a good wrap. Probably have to be custom made But it's easy if you don't mind a slightly ghetto look.

 

[needpowder]

If you can live without electric start in the summer The YZ 250X is a pretty amazing bike. Mine was 6800 OTD (I’m in Salt Lake). I can tell you exactly what jets you need for wherever you’re riding. Pretty simple. Save about four grand off of pumpkin and put that towards a slightly used 450. I picked up a 17 YZ 450F with 7hours on it for just over 5 g’s a few years ago. It doesn’t have electric start but I don’t really care. Sure it would be nice but if you know bikes you know how to kick em. Put about 60 hours on my dirtbike this winter and 120 on the snow bike—hoping for one or two more rides in the Uintas but the wife and kids are all about camping right now and it’s starting to get hot!

 

[jrlastofthebreed]

i have a 450 sxf on a 129 cmx. Its got more power than I know what to do with. Never been on a 500 but I hear they come pretty heavy with emmisions and desmoging is nessissary to get them to make power. Also hear that after you do they are wonderful. I like a 6 speed gearbox also. I guess it depends on how many mods you are wanting to do.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

i have a 450 sxf on a 129 cmx. Its got more power than I know what to do with. Never been on a 500 but I hear they come pretty heavy with emmisions and desmoging is nessissary to get them to make power. Also hear that after you do they are wonderful. I like a 6 speed gearbox also. I guess it depends on how many mods you are wanting to do.

?

 

[madmax]

If you have access to a ktm 500 id use it for a season while youre getting to know what you want. The 500 makes a great snow bike. Ive also had 450' and 300's. Personally i favor the KTM sxf 450 or the husky fx 450. Was not a big fan of the 300 two-stroke as a snow bike.

 

[Brewhaha]

If you are OK with having only one bike and skipping all the winter desert then the the two stroke would be my choice too. It will be way better in the summer and almost as good in the snow. The mathematical equation for that would something like 10+8.5/2 is > 6+9/2 = ???

Q. Saw some notes from you back on some 2t temp/expansion wrap discussion.

I'm doing the trail buddy, figure that should be sufficient for a temp gauge. Got the cmx intake, not sure how much it will help or hurt. Getting an engine wrap and pipe gaurd.
My question though, are you running a heater or anything? I saw a note on cold siezing, and just trying to keep the bike warm.

Apologies for so many questions. I think everyone at the bike dealer and dan at true north is tired of me asking.

 

[Brewhaha]

If you have access to a ktm 500 id use it for a season while youre getting to know what you want. The 500 makes a great snow bike. Ive also had 450' and 300's. Personally i favor the KTM sxf 450 or the husky fx 450. Was not a big fan of the 300 two-stroke as a snow bike.

I will have to see how easy the bolt up kit is (interchangeable or not) and the other items like engine wrap/blanket. I'd love to be able to try out both, however the old man adds all these rules like dads do when borrowing toys..

 

[Brewhaha]

If you get a 300 tpi you won't need carburetor heat. (no carb) But it will need a good wrap. Probably have to be custom made But it's easy if you don't mind a slightly ghetto look.

Just saw this. Makes sense. Just curious about cold cold air getting in if its an issue. But seems like a non issue?

Will figure out wrap, i got some time

 

[eric82930]

Are you worried about cold air in the intake or hitting the engine block? The snow touching things is the problem because it sucks a lot of heat away. Cold air in the intake is ok Sleds have been sucking cold air forever. Carbs freeze easier because the venturi acts like an air conditioner and Humidity makes it worse. The ice then blocks the tiny ports and they quit running usually before the throttle sticks. Fuel injection is way more tolerant but cars and even atvs feed coolant into the throttle to keep it from sticking. Its never happened on a 4 stroke fi that I know of but they do run hotter than a 2 stroke. Just try it without a heater and if it sticks just shut it off and wait a minute to thaw and it will go again.