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Big Wheel Kits

TreewellDweller

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Feb 18, 2008
447
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McCall, Idaho
I’ve seen a few big wheel kits available for the Timbersled kits and am wondering just how much of an improvement they could be.
Would appreciate any thoughts on the subject. I have an ARO 137 with a TKI belt drive and am wondering if the wheel kit would free up some horsepower.
 
E
Dec 19, 2007
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I would say it's not worth it. but I'll say the same for a belt drive too it's mostly marketing claims. Yes it does free up some power but can you tell? Like running a non oring chain?
To this day ski doo sleds still have a chain and poo has a belt and no one can prove an advantage either way. The yeti does feel quicker but guess what, if you take 30 pounds off an aro, it will feel the same way. Can you honestly say the tki made the bike suddenly beat your buddies bike? So many other things make a bigger difference. I've taken 30 pounds off a mountain horse and it's amazing. Drag racing 101.
The old mountain horse 137 had kicked up rails in the back for better turning on hard snow and in the pow I run a big wheel without the axle off set so it acts like a straight rail. But as soon as we get a base I put the stock wheels back on.
I think the aro rails are straight?
 
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TreewellDweller

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Feb 18, 2008
447
169
43
McCall, Idaho
I would say it's not worth it. but I'll say the same for a belt drive too it's mostly marketing claims. Yes it does free up some power but can you tell? Like running a non oring chain?
To this day ski doo sleds still have a chain and poo has a belt and no one can prove an advantage either way. The yeti does feel quicker but guess what, if you take 30 pounds off an aro, it will feel the same way. Can you honestly say the tki made the bike suddenly beat your buddies bike? So many other things make a bigger difference. I've taken 30 pounds off a mountain horse and it's amazing. Drag racing 101.
The old mountain horse 137 had kicked up rails in the back for better turning on hard snow and in the pow I run a big wheel without the axle off set so it acts like a straight rail. But as soon as we get a base I put the stock wheels back on.
I think the aro rails are straight?
Would definitely like to hear how you shaved 30 lbs off a mountain horse. That would be epic!
Could the same be done on the ARO?
 
E
Dec 19, 2007
1,040
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Shaving weight is never easy. Mine are all purpose built bikes. It's 30 pounds off the whole bike/kit combo. Throw away the bike frame and the track backbone and strut. build a custom frame from triple clamps to just behind the jack shaft. It also makes better geometry and puts the cg more over the track and mounts the foot pegs on the side panels just in front of axle.

_20220518_123722.JPG
 
M

MountainRider05

Well-known member
Nov 29, 2007
292
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Kennewick,WA
I put tki belt drive and tki 9in big wheel on my Aro3. The smoothness from on and off the gas is alot better and the rolling resistance going down hills is noticeable makes u hav to use the brakes. The gearing ratio seemed to be spot on running 15 husky fe501 on Aro3
 

TreewellDweller

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Feb 18, 2008
447
169
43
McCall, Idaho
Shaving weight is never easy. Mine are all purpose built bikes. It's 30 pounds off the whole bike/kit combo. Throw away the bike frame and the track backbone and strut. build a custom frame from triple clamps to just behind the jack shaft. It also makes better geometry and puts the cg more over the track and mounts the foot pegs on the side panels just in front of axle.
Thanks for sharing, but not quite ready to go quite that far. Looks like a fun ride, though.
 

TreewellDweller

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Feb 18, 2008
447
169
43
McCall, Idaho
I put tki belt drive and tki 9in big wheel on my Aro3. The smoothness from on and off the gas is alot better and the rolling resistance going down hills is noticeable makes u hav to use the brakes. The gearing ratio seemed to be spot on running 15 husky fe501 on Aro3
Appreciate the comment. After watching Tom’s YouTube on trueing up the jackshaft alignment and installing the belt drive, I felt that I noticed a similar improvement. I even changed out the drive sprockets and removed the chain slider. Gearing seems to be pretty good and seems to have better throttle response. Just grab a bit more throttle and don’t have to shift down as much.
 

jrlastofthebreed

It seemed like a good idea at the time
Lifetime Membership
Oct 24, 2016
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Coeur d'Alene ID
I would say it's not worth it. but I'll say the same for a belt drive too it's mostly marketing claims. Yes it does free up some power but can you tell? Like running a non oring chain?
To this day ski doo sleds still have a chain and poo has a belt and no one can prove an advantage either way. The yeti does feel quicker but guess what, if you take 30 pounds off an aro, it will feel the same way. Can you honestly say the tki made the bike suddenly beat your buddies bike? So many other things make a bigger difference. I've taken 30 pounds off a mountain horse and it's amazing. Drag racing 101.
The old mountain horse 137 had kicked up rails in the back for better turning on hard snow and in the pow I run a big wheel without the axle off set so it acts like a straight rail. But as soon as we get a base I put the stock wheels back on.
I think the aro rails are straight?
I have to disagree. a cmx 129 and a aro 129 on ktm 350's the cmx is much quicker. both kits are about the same weight. I attribute this to the belt drive, bigger wheels but It could be the track too.
 
E
Dec 19, 2007
1,040
657
113
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I can't say for sure because I've never rode or ridden with a cmx but its design has the track more forward and the ones I've built like it are quicker because more weight is on the track and less on the ski to drag. It's probably only an inch from the aro track location but every bit makes a difference. I can also state the small upper wheels on the riot/aro are a dumb idea and add rolling residence but can I feel it or see on dyno? I can't but poo made the new ones bigger this year just in case it works better. But it's a great selling point even for a skeptic like me.
 
0
Feb 23, 2019
120
69
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Cheney Wa
I put tki belt drive and tki 9in big wheel on my Aro3. The smoothness from on and off the gas is alot better and the rolling resistance going down hills is noticeable makes u hav to use the brakes. The gearing ratio seemed to be spot on running 15 husky fe501 on Aro3
I did the same on my ARO 3 and YZ450F . Found the same thing it absolutely spools up faster and rolls easier . I do not regret the up grade.
 

matchrocket

Well-known member
Premium Member
Mar 2, 2016
209
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Boise
Appreciate the comment. After watching Tom’s YouTube on trueing up the jackshaft alignment and installing the belt drive, I felt that I noticed a similar improvement. I even changed out the drive sprockets and removed the chain slider. Gearing seems to be pretty good and seems to have better throttle response. Just grab a bit more throttle and don’t have to shift down as much.
Share the link or details on the drive sprocket and slider changes?
 

TreewellDweller

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Lifetime Membership
Feb 18, 2008
447
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McCall, Idaho
Share the link or details on the drive sprocket and slider changes?
Last year I read the thread about eliminating the plastic rub block on your dive chain on your ARO, and in the process moving the whole kit up closer to your bike...........lots of glowing reports on CMX's that sit close to the bike and make them more playful. So in Feb last year Dan and I moved his ARO kit closer, used a 15 tooth drive sprocket on the bike driving an 18 on the ARO and went 17 to 18 bottom in the chain case. It was a nice improvement in less vibration/noise, noticeably easier to roll/less drag.

Thinking the RIOT would be the same frame same setup I proceeded to mount my new Riot on my KTM 500 as per the ARO.

1. something is different. To accomplish what we did last spring to the ARO, I had to slide out my.........call it a swingarm cast aluminum block. I put it in my mill ( could be done with a die grinder ) and
2. milled off the end of the block about 3/16 of an inch ,so the ends of the swingarm on either side of the adjuster bolt, removed the adjuster bolt lock nut, machined the hole surface on the inside where the adjuster bolt comes out so I had a flat surface there and put the lock nut on the inside of the swing arm.

3, elongated the 4 holes the long pinch bolts go through the frame .150 of an inch.
4. took a cut on the underside of the swing arm left side where the chain wants to
rub to give some extra chain room.
5. machined the swing arms sides back about .200 just ahead of the forward pinch bolt so the swing arm slides deeper into the Riot frame.
6. All this work so the swing are slide deeper into the Riot frame. Last year in the spring I put on a new DID low friction o ring chain and was impressed with the easier rolling so I used that chain with 15 tooth on the bike and 18 on the kit, removed the plastic shoe that came on the swing arm.
7. Note in the picture the heim joint on the solid strut just touches the long pinch bolt, note the distance between the adjuster bolt and the frame it pushes against. I should have taken pictures of stock them after modification to compare.....my bad.
Compare that to your stock Riot.
8 . When bolted together chain clears swing arm bolt on the bottom by about .200 and clears the top side by a mile and no rub block, just like the rear wheel on your bike it should be.

I also included picture of the fat top idler wheels after I narrowed them up and picture of the top idler wheels I ran when I put the aro suspension in my older TS frame. I was going to use the aluminum idler wheels in my riot, but they are bigger diameter that stock fatty wheels which worked great in my mods the last couple of years, I need to try the RIOT suspension and see if it has ratcheting issues before I go changing wheels sized.

I note about adjusting your track, side to side adjustment needs to be done to center up the rear wheels between the lugs and however the tracks looks is ok, the riot has nice skinny wheels in the back to I see no issues with the rear wheels, which I narrowed on the kits and sleds.

Anyway for now we shall see. my first shot I down loading pictures with the new format, going to have to figure it out.
I have the TKI belt drive on an ARO kit. I had followed suit of the process mentioned in this thread on my kit. It seems to work well other than the drive chain does contact one of the aluminum spacers in the front of the kit, at times. I’m still working on some type of guide to minimize that contact. For now, I take a piece of 3/4” schedule 80 pvc, slit one side, and pop it over that spacer. It’s thick enough and slick enough that it lasts for several rides and really eliminates the drag of the chain whenever the chain does make contact. The attached picture shows the current setup. It shows the 15 tooth drive sprocket. A 16 tooth would be better but it won’t fit. Best of luck!

4C166F36-70E3-49B8-85DA-DE4840CCBFEE.jpeg
 

matchrocket

Well-known member
Premium Member
Mar 2, 2016
209
69
28
Boise
I have the TKI belt drive on an ARO kit. I had followed suit of the process mentioned in this thread on my kit. It seems to work well other than the drive chain does contact one of the aluminum spacers in the front of the kit, at times. I’m still working on some type of guide to minimize that contact. For now, I take a piece of 3/4” schedule 80 pvc, slit one side, and pop it over that spacer. It’s thick enough and slick enough that it lasts for several rides and really eliminates the drag of the chain whenever the chain does make contact. The attached picture shows the current setup. It shows the 15 tooth drive sprocket. A 16 tooth would be better but it won’t fit. Best of luck!
Thank you!
 
R
Nov 16, 2016
350
164
43
75
............ Throw away the bike frame and the track backbone and strut. build a custom frame from triple clamps to just behind the jack shaft. It also makes better geometry and puts the cg more over the track and mounts the foot pegs on the side panels just in front of axle.


This is why I am hoping to see either Arctic Cat or Skidoo come out with their versioin of a purpose built snow bike..... not a dirt bike conversion!
One with a 2 stroke engine.
One with a CVT.
A real tunnel.
Lower center of gravity.
A better foot rest system.
Larger fuel capacity.
 
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