Stock springs in front and back. The 45 is not stock. Steve recommend it.
Benefit of running Suzuki Primary Clutch Springs with Team Primary Clutch on C-TEC2 engines?
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Stock springs in front and back. The 45 is not stock. Steve recommend it.
Great discussion guys! There are many ways to clutch a sled and they all work.
I was told that light clutch weights make the engine rev happily and seem zippy but, until you know just how much clutch weight the engine will pull, you'll never know how much power are you leaving on the table?
Vern, I am with you on the snow! The light primary clutch spring may be why you couldn't pull the very aggressive MDS clutch weights?
Steve also said to try a higher rate secondary spring as well (I have had great luck with that as well over the years).
So I installed a Speedwerx H5 130/280 in place of the stock 180/240. The higher total force gives a much more immediate and solid backshift. I did this with my M series and Proclimbs as well.
I was told that light clutch weights make the engine rev happily and seem zippy but, until you know just how much clutch weight the engine will pull, you'll never know how much power are you leaving on the table?
Vern, I am with you on the snow! The light primary clutch spring may be why you couldn't pull the very aggressive MDS clutch weights?
Steve also said to try a higher rate secondary spring as well (I have had great luck with that as well over the years).
So I installed a Speedwerx H5 130/280 in place of the stock 180/240. The higher total force gives a much more immediate and solid backshift. I did this with my M series and Proclimbs as well.
Steve initially told me to run the stock springs and 45 helix with his weights, then after I contacted him with issues he sent me a stiffer secondary spring to try but that made little to no difference. I ended up finishing out the season on all stock clutching but with the 45 helix (stock is 48). Hung onto the Mds weights though in case I decided to try more things.
ill be interested to see how that secondary spring works. Used to run similar springs in my m and pro climbs.
The weird thing is that they appear to work in some sleds but not others with Steve’s recommended set up.
I am now running at 6k with a jaws pipe I am running the 3.8 gram bolt and two washers. So 5.4 grams in the tip. Stock I ran the just the 3.2 gram bolt in the tip also.
CB.8, that's very similar to how Steve sent my weights. On my gram scale they were 76.9 grams with a short bolt and two washers. My stock weights for comparison weigh 70.9 grams. What's interesting to me is where the weight is loaded. Back in the day I used Heavy Hitter weights on my RX-1M. The clutch weights had three holes. The inner holes closet to the pivot point controlled your clutch engagement and low end, the middle hole controlled the mid range and the tip controlled the shift speed. If you couldn't pull your shift speed, you simply removed washers from the tip until you could pull the weight.
That what puzzles me, Steve has all the weight out on the very tip of the clutch weights. Has anyone tried to use the same amount of weight but, have the majority (2/3rds) of the weight in the inner hole with the remaining 1/3rd in the tip? I bet you'd be able to pull the weight! I would bet your midrange pull would also increase. I may have to try that myself.
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Blue devil, the weight has a fairly aggressive profile.
That what puzzles me, Steve has all the weight out on the very tip of the clutch weights. Has anyone tried to use the same amount of weight but, have the majority (2/3rds) of the weight in the inner hole with the remaining 1/3rd in the tip? I bet you'd be able to pull the weight! I would bet your midrange pull would also increase. I may have to try that myself.
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Blue devil, the weight has a fairly aggressive profile.
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I tried everything Steve at MDS wanted me to try and they wouldn't work in my 2020 Alpha, worked great in my 2018
Vern, it would be interesting for you to try the MDS weights with the bolt and washers in the inner holes.
I am confident you could pull them. Imagine the leverage that the engine has to be overcome with all that weight out on the tip of the weights!
Who knows, I may end up having to try it myself? Let it snow!
I am confident you could pull them. Imagine the leverage that the engine has to be overcome with all that weight out on the tip of the weights!
Who knows, I may end up having to try it myself? Let it snow!
We’ll have to see what happens with the new pipe first before I touch anything, but if it actually increases rpm like others say I may have to try the Mds again. Last year I ran the Mds completely empty a few times and it would barely hit 8000-8100 so I dunno if it would have pulled them even with the weight in the inner hole.
Yes I tried them empty and still wouldn't pull RPMs
I'm interested in what you guys find out. For what it's worth, my '17 Mtn Cat has a Team primary and the spring has "49205085/255" stamped on it. I would assume that this would be the Cat 85/255 spring, part no. 0646-471 from the 2016 M sleds. According to the parts fiche, my sled is supposed to have a 105/225 spring, part no. 0646-940 in it. I haven't touched the primary from when it was new at the dealer. Maybe the dealer put this different spring in...
I can believe that the spring is a 85/255 since the engagement is so low and smooth. Granted my sled is running the Zuke and the Team primary before they went to the one with bearing... I'm guessing both versions of the Team clutch might accept the same springs. This spring might not be heavy enough for you, but I love the low engagement.
Looks like the 2020 600 Alpha runs this same primary spring too.
I can believe that the spring is a 85/255 since the engagement is so low and smooth. Granted my sled is running the Zuke and the Team primary before they went to the one with bearing... I'm guessing both versions of the Team clutch might accept the same springs. This spring might not be heavy enough for you, but I love the low engagement.
Looks like the 2020 600 Alpha runs this same primary spring too.
Ok so here is what I’ve done On one of my 2020 165 hardcores. I run the 120/285 cat spring in the drive clutch with CPC 70 gram weights with 1gram in the heal. The driven clutch I run a 46* helix and the stock spring. The stock helix is a 48*. Cat done a pretty good job on the clutching but there was still a little to be had. One more thing that would be fun to try is a 48-46 duel stage helix. But I have moved on to a slip stage 3 kit ,that I‘m currently working on a clutch kit for that but we need more snow to test on.
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My limited clutching experience has shown me that from stock going heavier weights and more spring tends to create more clutch/ belt heat and more clutch wear. Lighter weights and lighter spring makes lower temps and a longer clutch/ belt life. However as far as feel goes I like the more positive engagement / reaction that the heavier gives. But I like not buying belts all the time too. I guess it boils down to preference. Honestly the stock setups these days are pretty darn good.
My 2013 with 18 clutches and belt drive and I am running 2016 primary spring with stock 70 gr weights. Secondary I went with a Dalton 50/44 progressive helix and slightly heavier secondary spring (closest one to stock they had) and it seems to work perfect for me in all conditions. Nice low engagement, instant acceleration and great track speed with it holding 8100-8200 all the time pulling a 175 track. Few minor tweeks to engine such as Boyesen Rad valves, 2 degree key. No extra venting and belt shows little to no wear after 700 miles. Rode deep powder days and pulled hard all day long. Have a turbo kit for it but it runs so good I don't want to mess with it. Keeps up for the most part with the turbo Axys guys in our group. They get the high mark but I am usually the one breaking trail in the trees.
R
It is clear that Most of you on this post have shot your selves in the neck with a tranquilizer gun and are just not using your heads!
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