There's a lot of Alpha chatter now that the snow is getting deep. Those of you who are getting seat time are beginning to see the true capabilities of the Alpha platform. I see pictures and video of rails being damaged and or broken. Are these anomalies or is a redesign required? What are your thoughts and recommendations for those of us who are almost ready to take the plunge?
Arctic Cat Alpha Lessons Learned - 154 or 165 / Mountain or Hardcore / 2019 or 2020 Engine / Best Clutching / Elevate Alpha / New or Used / Pipe /
- Thread starter Frostbite
- Start date
I have a 2020 MC Alpha. Coming off modded M1100T and M1000. My Alpha has 4 rides and 100 miles.
I get better on the sled after each ride as it is so easy to control, and I'm learning it doesn't need me to muscle it or throw it around like previous sleds. First time I've owned a sled where I can control it with my feet planted in one place, and not jump around from side to side.
It is stock with exception of a SLP can. Incredible power for an 800 in my opinion.
I am 245 lbs and 6'4" and have had no issues yet with suspension bottoming out or hyfax/rail issues.
Track tension and shock pressure is key to this sled!
I've needed to tighten the track after every ride as it's breaking in. 2" gap at center on 25 lbs of pressure. (I use AC track tension tool)
Shocks are set at 65 lbs on skis, 70 lbs on front skid, and 140 lbs on rear skid.
Yesterday was best and deepest day so far. Made a lot of progress performing on the sled despite a lot a ruts/tracked out by end of day. Have not been stuck yet where my previous sleds would have trenched out.
I hit a couple stumps pulling out of a bowl early on. First thing I did was check the rail - it has not even touched the rubber stop pad, so I think I have this thing set up right especially with my weight.
Been a great experience so far.
I get better on the sled after each ride as it is so easy to control, and I'm learning it doesn't need me to muscle it or throw it around like previous sleds. First time I've owned a sled where I can control it with my feet planted in one place, and not jump around from side to side.
It is stock with exception of a SLP can. Incredible power for an 800 in my opinion.
I am 245 lbs and 6'4" and have had no issues yet with suspension bottoming out or hyfax/rail issues.
Track tension and shock pressure is key to this sled!
I've needed to tighten the track after every ride as it's breaking in. 2" gap at center on 25 lbs of pressure. (I use AC track tension tool)
Shocks are set at 65 lbs on skis, 70 lbs on front skid, and 140 lbs on rear skid.
Yesterday was best and deepest day so far. Made a lot of progress performing on the sled despite a lot a ruts/tracked out by end of day. Have not been stuck yet where my previous sleds would have trenched out.
I hit a couple stumps pulling out of a bowl early on. First thing I did was check the rail - it has not even touched the rubber stop pad, so I think I have this thing set up right especially with my weight.
Been a great experience so far.
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B
I bought a used 19 Alpha after 4 Skidoos and I absolutely love it. I've put about 320 miles on it this year so far and it's been flawless other than some cracking on the clutch cover which was covered under warranty and very quickly by my local dealer. No issues with cracked rail or bottoming on the rail but I set my pressures carefully and usually only ride at 30-40mph on the access trails as I don't like ripping too fast on a 3" track and now with the risks of overheating the hyfax or bottoming the rail.
This thing puts a huge grin on my face all day and everyone that has tried it has been impressed too. Buddy hopped on from his 850 pro and it was out climbing the Polaris lines. Then a Doo guy hopped on and was impressed at how smoothly it crossed old track compared to the G4, he felt it crossed lines as smoothly as his snowbike.
This thing puts a huge grin on my face all day and everyone that has tried it has been impressed too. Buddy hopped on from his 850 pro and it was out climbing the Polaris lines. Then a Doo guy hopped on and was impressed at how smoothly it crossed old track compared to the G4, he felt it crossed lines as smoothly as his snowbike.
Great input guys! It sounds like you both like your sleds. I really like the idea of not being as tired at the end of the day! As I get older I find that the jumping back and forth all day to stay on the high side takes a large toll on my energy and enjoyment level. The thought of NOT having to do that is very appealing. It also sound like the traction is almost unbelievable and thought of not having to dig myself out as much is appealing as well. Keep em coming!
2020 mc 165", rode a '14 m8 for the last 5 years. Have about 200 miles on the alpha now. There is definitely a bit of a learning curve. I am finding that I do better on it in a normal riding position with one foot on each board vs. going wrong foot forward in 90% of my riding. It likes to be rode aggressively. Definitely has a different feel to it when it starts to trench in on a climb, I don't really know how to explain it, but it just keeps chugging along. Also pin and wiggles out of anything, I don't think I've even needed a ski tug so far this year. Got a real good lesson on how good the traction is on Saturday when I wheelied the thing straight over backwards on me on a not very impressive hill. Didn't think the 165" was supposed to do that, and I got my shocks set at 50 fts and 165 rts so it's not like it's set up to be a wheelie monster. I've hit a few rocks and at least one stump that bottomed out the FTS and so far so good. Haven't even got the mark at the front of the rail from the limiter strap bolt everyone's been posting about. So far I'd say the alpha is ?
I have just a couple rides on my 18 Mountain Cat with a 154 Alpha conversion so far. I'm not a big guy so I usually jump from side to side on a sled and I need to train myself not to do that as much! What happens is I tend to over-correct and because it has so much traction I end up going places I didn't intend on going to. Just a matter of getting some miles on it to learn the machine.
I'm still playing around with the shock settings but I'm currently at,
Fronts 60psi main, 110 psi EVOL, clickers on 1 for off trail/mountain, 1 or 2 trail depending on speed/roughness, 3 occasionally on smooth twisty trails.
FTS 50-55 psi, clicker on 2
RTS 120 psi main, 200 in Hygear dual chamber (similar to an EVOL chamber) clicker on 1 most of the time.
Update 1/27/20
FTS 35 psi
RTS 125 main, 190 in Hygear dual chamber
Since mine is a 18, I can't comment on the 19 or 20 engine. Mine does have the Precision flash and a Diamond S Ti can, I can tell you it runs really well and IMO is not lacking in power!
I'm still playing around with the shock settings but I'm currently at,
Fronts 60psi main, 110 psi EVOL, clickers on 1 for off trail/mountain, 1 or 2 trail depending on speed/roughness, 3 occasionally on smooth twisty trails.
FTS 50-55 psi, clicker on 2
RTS 120 psi main, 200 in Hygear dual chamber (similar to an EVOL chamber) clicker on 1 most of the time.
Update 1/27/20
FTS 35 psi
RTS 125 main, 190 in Hygear dual chamber
Since mine is a 18, I can't comment on the 19 or 20 engine. Mine does have the Precision flash and a Diamond S Ti can, I can tell you it runs really well and IMO is not lacking in power!
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Had ‘16 M8000 Ltd 153” went to ‘19 Alpha 154”, rode ‘19 Alpha 165” a day, and now have 2020 Alpha 154”.
Agree with above. Have to learn to use less input. I’ve gone to “snapping” my arms vs moving body and feet to change directions. The difference in performance between ‘16 3” and ‘19 Alpha 3” is insane. Not even same league (my buddy kept his ‘16 so had chance to ride side by side in ‘19).
Not a fan of 165”. I like quick, technical, trees. 165” was too “old man” feel for me right now. Probably appreciate that in a few years, but like 154” today.
Shock settings definitely make a difference. As of today, I’d rather have my ‘16 EVOL shocks than either the ‘19 or ‘20 Hardcore shocks, but still experimenting with the 20.
Rail... my belief is there are some “bad” rails out there that break easy (bad casting). I also believe there are some rails that have broken where any twin rail would have bent or stabbed/ruined the track. My ‘19 was flawless and I rode it hard. Early season trips with lots of logs and stumps, whoops on the trail that I chased a pro Sno cross racer and A class motocross racer through, and a couple creek banks/jumps that I think made me a couple inches shorter all with no rail issue. My 20 failed first trip and there’s nothing memorable that I hit. Dealer took care of it and I’m honestly not concerned about it. If my ‘19 lived through what I know I put it through, it’s not a design issue...it’s probably a quality control issue during casting. I ran my ‘19 with low front track pressure (compared to what everyone says you MUST run today) because I liked keeping approach angle low and skis down and still no issue.
2019 to 2020: can’t say I can notice a difference. Maybe side by side I could, but not year over year. Feel both were strong and ran well.
Only bad I’d say are the very slow side hills in hard snow. Wants to “plant” itself because you don’t have the edge to dig in. You learn to lay it over further in those situations.
Agree with above. Have to learn to use less input. I’ve gone to “snapping” my arms vs moving body and feet to change directions. The difference in performance between ‘16 3” and ‘19 Alpha 3” is insane. Not even same league (my buddy kept his ‘16 so had chance to ride side by side in ‘19).
Not a fan of 165”. I like quick, technical, trees. 165” was too “old man” feel for me right now. Probably appreciate that in a few years, but like 154” today.
Shock settings definitely make a difference. As of today, I’d rather have my ‘16 EVOL shocks than either the ‘19 or ‘20 Hardcore shocks, but still experimenting with the 20.
Rail... my belief is there are some “bad” rails out there that break easy (bad casting). I also believe there are some rails that have broken where any twin rail would have bent or stabbed/ruined the track. My ‘19 was flawless and I rode it hard. Early season trips with lots of logs and stumps, whoops on the trail that I chased a pro Sno cross racer and A class motocross racer through, and a couple creek banks/jumps that I think made me a couple inches shorter all with no rail issue. My 20 failed first trip and there’s nothing memorable that I hit. Dealer took care of it and I’m honestly not concerned about it. If my ‘19 lived through what I know I put it through, it’s not a design issue...it’s probably a quality control issue during casting. I ran my ‘19 with low front track pressure (compared to what everyone says you MUST run today) because I liked keeping approach angle low and skis down and still no issue.
2019 to 2020: can’t say I can notice a difference. Maybe side by side I could, but not year over year. Feel both were strong and ran well.
Only bad I’d say are the very slow side hills in hard snow. Wants to “plant” itself because you don’t have the edge to dig in. You learn to lay it over further in those situations.
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M
2020 MC 165. Biggest learning curve was to SLOW DOWN. Its amazing how little track speed you can carry across a hill on these things. You can just creep along in super deep snow. Another learning curve was the ability this things have to climb (maybe not a learning curve) but holy crap they just keep going when climbing. Its made hills that were once pretty intimating easy. No Issues. No rail breaks. Sealed the intake for peace of mind. Bone stock even can. 300 miles
MTSledder94, your comments about slowing down make it sound as though a Alpha One 600 154 might be enough or maybe even better in tight technical terrain. Those I have spoken with say the 600 Alpha One is super tractable and easy to ride. I don't doubt it's a blast but, would it have enough power to be considered fun?
J
Have 3 weekends on my 2020 MC 154 with SLP can. All I can say is this thing is a blast. Was in really deep powder the last 2 weekends and had a bunch of fun. That said, it will trench in the right snow conditions if you aren't carrying track speed. I buried it about 4 feet down on Sunday going up a short steep hill after I went down and did a sharp turn to go back up. Definitely a learning curve and agree with the others, you can ride almost all the time in normal position, which was weird at first.
And make a U turn in your own track
Definitely not. Unless you are super light. There are still times when you need that track to be spinning if you want to go up or if you want to dig and set the sled. The minimal weight difference is not worth it for the loss of potential when you need it.
Just master the throttle.
Gotcha Jakey Boy! I get it but, the price point Cat set for the 600 Alpha has certainly made a direct hit with me.
When you can spend $16,000 on a new mountain sled, an brand new Alpha under $10,000 makes me take another look and hash over the what if every time I see one.
When you can spend $16,000 on a new mountain sled, an brand new Alpha under $10,000 makes me take another look and hash over the what if every time I see one.
I just decided to get rid of a very well put together ‘14 for a new ‘18 Mountain Cat. Haven’t ridden it yet, but I figured for the out of pocket price I got it at, I can get a feel for it this year and decide to add an Alpha kit or Elevate or leave alone over the summer. That was my lesson learned, that I would have been disappointed if I waited until next year.
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I rode Goinboardin's new to him 18 MC this last weekend with Silber tune, BMP y, and Elevate kit and the thing absolutely ripped. The Elevate acted very similarly to my 20 Alpha as far as maneuverability (at least in the snow conditions). I wouldn't hesitate to throw that on in lieu of the Alpha for durability, fun factor and price point. An Elevate upgrade would be less than half the cost of an Alpha upgrade (if you buy the Alpha kit new with shocks from Cat parts). It definitely holds more snow though, obviously.
dgibbons, that's great information! I guess that's the question. How close to Alpha capability does an elevated twin rail come? If it's within 25%, then it may make more sense to keep your twin rail and elevate it. Heck, it makes the Barcode A arms that raise the front end 1.5" for $798 a heck of a bargain.
Dang it, I just took my own advice and just went ahead and ordered the Barcode A arms for their 1 1/2" lift. I will give them a try without any rear skid changes and then determine if I need to make any modifications to drop the rear skid to match.
Dang it, I just took my own advice and just went ahead and ordered the Barcode A arms for their 1 1/2" lift. I will give them a try without any rear skid changes and then determine if I need to make any modifications to drop the rear skid to match.
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1300 miles now on the Alpha- here's what I've learned: 95% deep powder miles.
- get the D&D pro breather. Silicone alone won't/can't protect the air box. Serious issue, causes bog; this machine will ingest pow, more w ANY plastic misaligned up top/front and can do damage. yes, bog can be packed intakes, however if you open it up you'll find snow getting in there.
- it's been ridden really hard and chosen terrain carefully in early seasons, the rail can take it- that said I don't want to risk big air on this sled. keep it 20' or under. I've hit plenty of buried stumps, logs, a gate or two and the rail is perfect. I held back a bit the first 600 mi but not now.
- Beta from our the shop- out of 70 Alphas only one rail broken and one bent. so I believe there are QC issues/ casting on some out there, but they are the outliers.
- c1600 error codes thrown as thumb heater goes out, bad wiring? This seems to be all on '19s one year out.
- there are a few factory issues with wiring being sealed up right, as well as not being routed right and getting hot. small stuff.
hope that helps.
- get the D&D pro breather. Silicone alone won't/can't protect the air box. Serious issue, causes bog; this machine will ingest pow, more w ANY plastic misaligned up top/front and can do damage. yes, bog can be packed intakes, however if you open it up you'll find snow getting in there.
- it's been ridden really hard and chosen terrain carefully in early seasons, the rail can take it- that said I don't want to risk big air on this sled. keep it 20' or under. I've hit plenty of buried stumps, logs, a gate or two and the rail is perfect. I held back a bit the first 600 mi but not now.
- Beta from our the shop- out of 70 Alphas only one rail broken and one bent. so I believe there are QC issues/ casting on some out there, but they are the outliers.
- c1600 error codes thrown as thumb heater goes out, bad wiring? This seems to be all on '19s one year out.
- there are a few factory issues with wiring being sealed up right, as well as not being routed right and getting hot. small stuff.
hope that helps.
I would slightly disagree on two points.
1. I haven’t had any bog issues since taking the entire hood/intake apart on both my Alphas and sealing them up. Use both silicone and tape, depending on the seam. Can’t forget up top around the intake.
2. I hit plenty of 60’ers last year on my ‘19. No issues. Haven’t really jumped my 20 yet...
1. I haven’t had any bog issues since taking the entire hood/intake apart on both my Alphas and sealing them up. Use both silicone and tape, depending on the seam. Can’t forget up top around the intake.
2. I hit plenty of 60’ers last year on my ‘19. No issues. Haven’t really jumped my 20 yet...
Snow ingestion is dependent on riding location. Wet coastal snow like what we have here in Washington(cascade range), on most rides, i could take the screens off the top of the intake and ride with little snow ingestion, more concerned about pine needles....
Then u go inland where snow is dry, flakes are microscopic, riding is 7-11kft , u will suck in snow through the smallest of holes. As soon as ur intakes are covered, the vacuum inside the plenum increases dramatically, pulling in air from any and every orifice.
Sent it
Then u go inland where snow is dry, flakes are microscopic, riding is 7-11kft , u will suck in snow through the smallest of holes. As soon as ur intakes are covered, the vacuum inside the plenum increases dramatically, pulling in air from any and every orifice.
Sent it
Snow ingestion is dependent on riding location. Wet coastal snow like what we have here in Washington(cascade range), on most rides, i could take the screens off the top of the intake and ride with little snow ingestion, more concerned about pine needles....
Then u go inland where snow is dry, flakes are microscopic, riding is 7-11kft , u will suck in snow through the smallest of holes. As soon as ur intakes are covered, the vacuum inside the plenum increases dramatically, pulling in air from any and every orifice.
Sent it
For reference to my post, I only ride Colorado and SW Montana.
